U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Besides with the US Men not strong doing the quad he can still be competitive. Aaron is the only one who is consistent with quads. Minor is of and on and so is Dornbush. Abbott might as well forget doing them and Rippon i don't think tried one all season. A quad does put Josh and Jason right in the thick of things.
  2. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think the USFS was trying to help Dornbush and Rippon get 2 GPs each though this season and maybe encouraged them to stay junior though. After what went down this season, I don't see them holding Farris and Brown back in favor of Rippon and Abbott and the likes of those guys. These two are realistic contenders for the Olympic team and with Farris being 4th at Nationals I think the USFS has now "invested" in him, and they've loved Jason for years now so now that he put up this great score there is no reason for him to be staying in juniors.

    Also Josh seems close on his 4t. It's always round it just seems like he's prone to overcooking it and crashing into the boards. However, given that he's pretty reliable to skate a good program otherwise and hit both axels (which are quite gorgeous, btw) I think he's really in the shake up. Max's quad is consistent. Miner and Dornbush have a success rate a little better than Josh but are by no means masters of it in competition, plus Farris is more consistent with his 3a than both those guys (Dornbush especially, at least the past couple seasons) and his 3a is also of better quality. Rippon and Abbott can't even be counted on to rotate their quad attempts at this point and Rippon wasn't even attempting them in competition this season at all. Mahbanoozadeh, Razzano, and Messing are all capable of the quad but sort of took themselves off the radar screen with Nationals and other subpar results this season - I doubt we'll be seeing them on the GP. Johnson is fab artistically but he just got his 3a secure and hasn't shown signs of a quad yet. So really, Farris is in the shakeup for the team I would say, and if he can start landing that quad in competition more, I think he's a strong contender. Does he train the 4s as well? I was noticing he has a very nice salchow jump and wondered if he had tried training the quad on that jump too. As for Brown he'd probably need to be at least trying for the quad to be the shakeup, but he might not need to be consistently landing it to make the team.
  3. missing

    missing Well-Known Member

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    Most of the men of fairly recent vintage who've won the Olympics skated in their previous Olympics (frequently coming in around 4th or 5th).

    If Farris and Brown are serious about the 2018 Olympics, it would help them to skate in the 2014 Olympics first.
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I agree but it's also worth noting they would both be only recently 27 for 2022 so that isn't out of the realms of possibility either.
  5. kalamalka

    kalamalka Member

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    this surprised me, so I looked up results - and it's true - from 88 on, the OGM's finishes in the previous Olympics were:
    4th: Lysacek 2006
    5th: Yagudin 1998; Urmanov 1992; Boitano 1984
    Other: Plushenko 2002 - silver; Petrenko 1988 bronze
    Did not compete: Kulik 1994 - won junior worlds that year.

    On that basis, it would be promising for Patrick Chan (5th in 2010; 4th was Lambiel)
  6. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    The importance of the quad nowadays (and the effects of training a quad and/or multiple quads) may limit the length of the top men's careers... only time will tell.


    ISU's SB total scores listed updated after Junior Worlds:
    Miner #11, Aaron 13, Dornbush 14, Farris 18, Abbott 19, Brown 21, Chen 23, Rippon 26, Omori 28, Mahbanoozadeh 30.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  7. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Since this thread is titled "U.S. MEN 2012-2013", I thought I would re-post here what I posted to an interesting thread in the Trash Can section of the forum:


    Btw, more interesting facts (about the American men only), leastways to me:


    Mark Cockerell ~ 1976 jr. world gold medalist; never medalled at the Olympics (13th in 1984)

    Christopher Bowman ~ 1983 jr. world gold medalist; ditto (7th in 1988 & 4th in 1992)

    Rudy Galindo ~ 1987 jr. world gold medalist, 1986 jr. world silver medalist, 1985 jr. world bronze medalist :hat1: ; never got the chance to skate at the Olympics, yet he did capture bronze at Big Worlds in 1996.

    Todd Eldredge ~ 1988 jr. world gold medalist, 1987 jr. world silver medalist; never medalled at the Olympics (10th in 1992, 4th in 1998, 6th in 2002).

    Michael Weiss ~ 1994 jr. world gold medalist, 1993 jr. world silver medalist; ditto (7th in both 1998 & 2002).

    Johnny Weir ~ 2001 jr. world gold medalist; ditto (5th in 2006 & 6th in 2010)

    Matthew Savoie ~ 2000 jr. world bronze medalist; ditto (7th in in 2006)




    And the following American men never made it to the Olympics, despite medalling at jr. worlds:


    Scott Williams (1982 jr. world gold medalist & 1981 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Erik Larson (1985 jr. world gold medalist)

    Shepherd Clark (1989 jr. world silver medalist)

    Damon Allen (1992 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Jere Michael (1994 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Derrick Delmore (1998 jr. world gold medalist)

    Jordan Brauninger (2004 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Stephen Carriere (2007 jr. world gold medalist)

    Adam Rippon (2008 & 2009 jr. world gold medalist both times) :smokin:


    ONLY 3 American men have medalled at both Jr. Worlds and the Olympics:


    Paul Wylie ~ 1981 jr. world gold medalist & 1992 Olympic silver medalist

    Timothy Goebel ~ 1997 jr. world silver medalist & 2002 Olympic silver medalist

    Evan Lysacek ~ 2001, 2003, 2004 jr. world silver medalist three times & 2010 Olympic gold medalist :smokin:
  8. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    ^^ The correlation stats above is depressing. Room on top is very limited.:( Looks like the Russian men have a better track record? Did Brian B and Scott H participate in any Worlds Junior?

    Unless they are prepared to take over the crown of Bionic Skater from Plushenko.:D
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  9. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Boitano was bronze medalist at 1978 Jr. Worlds. NadineWhite did mention that in another post in the Trash Can thread.

    Hamilton was already senior by the time Junior Worlds began in the late 70s.
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Actually this is a 2012-13 news thread for the U.S. men - the Trash Can is the main place for historical skating results & discussions.

    ETA:
    This Associated Press article on the U.S. men's medal sweep in Milan references two past instances of comparable success at Junior Worlds: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/03/02/2496386/us-men-sweep-podium-for-1st-time.html
    IFS' Facebook photo of Farris, Brown, and Omori posing with their medals and a big American flag: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0768452538.526601.278550292537&type=3&theater

    Another photo of the sweep :lol:: http://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/308304136355577856/photo/1

    Exhibition performances earlier today in Milan: Shotaro Omori ("Ave Maria"), Jason Brown ("Can't touch this" by MC Hammer :cool:), and Josh Farris ("Ain't no sunshine" cover by Josh Hoge - thanks, TanithandBenFan!).
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  11. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, gkelly, I forgot about B.B.! when I mentioned how many American men have medalled at BOTH jr. worlds and the Olympics! :duh:

    Make that 4: B.B., Wylie, Goebel, Lysacek :smokin:

    Anyhow I thought it would be interesting considering the American Men made history the other day, what ramifications if any we might expect in the future....

    Mayhap one of them can make history again by medalling at next year's Olympics, one can hope and dream.... :)

    Now I'm off obsessing and will enjoy the rest of this Sunday on a gorgeous day in Seattle!!!!
  12. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    OMG, how arrogant of Jason to think nobody can touch his talent!
    Only more arrogant selection I can think of is "Girl on Fire"! :mad:
    ;)
  13. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    I suspect it's not his talent he doesn't want people touching. ;)
  14. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    :lol: sweep! They all look so excited, as they should be!

    Running off to find videos of the gala now - love Jason's "Can't Touch This" and I'm so delighted to see Josh has got rid of his slightly mournful (IMO) ex and has a new one. :)
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I'm so excited about the US sweep. I see star potential in all of Farris, Brown, and Omori...really, they all have something special. It's going to be fun to watch their senior careers unfold.
  16. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^With Farris moving up to Seniors and Brown probably moving up as well, this will deepen the US talent pool on the GP circuit / Senior B's (hopefully).
  17. Impromptu

    Impromptu Well-Known Member

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    In this article on the SP ( http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130228&content_id=42096588&vkey=ice_news ), Brown states that he's going to leave the decision up to the USFSA:

  18. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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  19. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    I think that's smart of him. He's kind of on the cusp so by letting USFS decide he'll get the max assignments and it will work either way.
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Korea '18 is probably his goal. No harm in staying a Junior (although, he is technically older than Farris).
  21. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I just think Jason would be wasting his time in Juniors for yet another year. He's now almost 19. Time to see how he stacks up against the big boys.
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  23. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    If Jason competes in JGP next year, he would get two JGP assignments, and have a 99% chance of qualifying for the JGP final. If Jason competes in the GP, he will most likely only get one GP assignment, plus one Senior B.

    The JGP option would give him more opportunities to compete internationally. Even if Jason competes JGP, he could still place well enough at nationals to make the Olympic team.

    IMO, if Team USA has only two Olympic spots, then Jason will be best served to stay in the JGP.
  24. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

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    Jason will turn 19 on Dec. 15, 2013 according to his USAF bio. I prefer to say "he just turned 18" myself.
  25. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    One reason I'd like to see Jason as a Senior next year is that there seems to be a certain PCS limit on Junior skaters; as one of Jason's main stregths is his second mark, it'll take a bit of exposure for his PCS to match what he puts on ice. But I'm sure his team will make the best decision.

    Aaron, Farris, Brown, Johnson all in Colorado Springs. That will be intense.
  26. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Jason won't be training at the World Arena exclusively I don't think though. Doesn't he plan on attending Colorado College and training at their ice rink closer to Denver for part of the time as well? And none of those guys have the same coaches I don't think - Aaron is with Tom Z, Farris with Krall and Allen, Johnson with Dickson, and Brown is staying with Ade. So while being training mates is bound to be an interesting experience for them all, it's not as if they all train under the same coach or coaches.
  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Considering Gold got two GP assignments, and one was not Skate America, after winning silver at JW and having a JGP gold as the only other international assignment on her resume, wouldn't it be likely for Farris and Brown to get two senior GP assignments next season? Max and Ross will each get 2 if they place in the top 12 at Worlds which is likely, and Abbott is likely to get 2, but after that, you would think Josh and Jason would have as good a shot as Dornbush to get 2 events and a better shot than Rippon who is not even on the top 24 SB list and Mahbanoozadeh who isn't either and doesn't have a great WS. Johnson can only be considered for Skate America because he doesn't have an ISU SB, and Farris finished ahead of him at Nationals so if it came down to picking between them you'd think Farris would be ahead in line. Josh and Jason both have pretty decent world rankings and should stay in the top 24 SB list so 2 assignments seems likely, usually the JWC gets two GPs when they move up to seniors, and silver medalists too (Zawadzki in 10-11, Gold this season). Idk. Would one or both of them going to WTT help their chances for GP selection?
  28. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Thanks, I did not know about Colorado College and different rinks.
  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Jason Brown hasn't said anything publicly about his college plans, AFAIK. Here was a post from the Jason/Joshua Uber thread in the Trash Can speculating about the possibility that he could take classes at Colorado College in Colorado Springs (Honnen Ice Arena is the rink on campus):
    Re-posting the link to the Dec. 2012 article mentioned above:
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  30. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Gold had a third international assignment last season, and it was a Senior-level one at that: the World Team Trophy.
  31. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    I thought it was on the NBC broadcast or perhaps on IN commentary where I heard that Jason wanted to start college part time in the fall? I assumed part of the reason they were talking about him moving to Colorado in March/April was because he wanted to get residency.
  32. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Colorado College is a private liberal arts college; residency doesn't affect tuition. If he's instead going to go to Pikes Peak CC or CU Colorado Springs (both public colleges) I think that there is stil a deal in place related to the USOC training center -- if he's designated the right way -- that gets him in-state tuition or close to it.
  33. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    There's also a TES limit considering there's one fewer element (I think?). There's also less scoring inflation that helps jr skaters get into top season's best.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  34. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    .

    Gold also benefited from Kostner deciding to skip the GP and Czisny opting for only one GP assignment. That opened up three GP spots that would have otherwise been filled.
  35. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Are their names Josh GOLD and Jason GOLD? I don't think so! #catchylastnamesftw
  36. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    True. However, USFS seems to love Jason about as much as they love Gracie. As for Josh, perhaps he is not a favorite, but he's the one with the nationals pewter and junior world title to his credit so you think that would give him some street cred.
  37. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ How come you think Josh is not as much or more a favorite than Jason? How can you determine this either way?
  38. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Scoring at Nationals has always been in Jason's favor, he always gets a big PCS boost from international scores regardless of if he makes mistakes. Josh did well at US Nats this year because he skated really well, but the year before, when he made mistakes, he got really harsh treatment from the judges, getting PCS scores at senior nationals below what he was getting at junior internationals. Also Joshua has always had a technical edge on Jason ever since they were little but they still flip flopped results on podiums, like in junior when Jason won the title, he had no 3a and Joshua did but Jason still won the title, and this was when they were about 14-15 so artistry didn't factor into the equation at much. Finally, after last season Josh really was ready to be competing on the GP after winning JW silver and having gotten his 3a very consistent, and I think he wanted to move up but USFS talked him and his coaches out of it, likely to help skaters like Rippon, Dornbush, and Miner each get 2 GPs. Going on the JGP another season ended up working out for him in the end but I still think the fed had something to do with making that decision and it was not what Josh and his team necessarily had wanted at the end of last season. Anyways, now that he's skating so well and getting such good results, I think they will support him more, to me it just seems as though USFS wants Josh to wait his turn and won't really promote as a contender until after Sochi, whereas with Jason they have always been willing to promote him as one of the stars and he just needed to get the jumps to really be one, so now that he's got the 3a, I think they might put energy into promoting him like they did with Gracie.
  39. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    So you mean the judges scored him lower when he didn't skate as well as he had before? Just shocking.
  40. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I said on PCS. Other skaters take a TES hit when they make mistakes but the PCS remain unchanged. Jason got PCS of 75 for his FS at Nationals in 2012 which had THREE FALLS, Josh has two falls and got PCS of 65. At the JGPF 2 weeks earlier, Jason had a clean FS and Josh had a FS with a fall and a few other mistakes and they both got PCS of 69. TES will take a hit when any skater makes mistakes, which is what happened with Jason at Nationals in 2012, but he still received considerable inflation in PCS compared to international marks despite the mistakes, while Josh actually got PCS deflation at Nationals compared to his international marks after delivering a comparable program to the one he had at the JGPF.

    This is the same issue with Zawadzki and Gold vs. Gao at Nationals, it's not necessary to rehash and its an issue that always seems to exist for some skaters but not others for whatever reason. The point I was trying to make is that it seems like the USFS have always been big supporters/fans of Jason Brown, and due to this, I don't think they will try and convince him to compete on the JGP another season if he says he wants to compete on the senior GP given his results this season and their opinion and general treatment of him as a skater.