U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Johnny sp at Finlandia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaCdSZ-sZJc


    Richard Dornbush sp at Finlandia:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5XjY3EReFo


    Overall sp results:

    http://www.figureskatingresults.fi/results/1213/FT2012/SEG001.HTM


    Bonus:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFBk1ujPhVA Hanyu sp (trying to emulate Dai?)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbDfhulAmWk Fernandez sp (well done -- needs work on spins and presentation skills)


    ETA: JEREMY ABBOTT new programs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtWzcVMkbfE Spy sp

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HclDBc_ek2s Bring Him Home fp (abbreviated version)

    And the plot thickens for U.S. men. Good luck to all.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  2. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I really like Ricky's sp! Watched it three times already. Beautiful melody of With Or Without You also helps ;)
  3. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, right! I like RD's sp more than his fp at this point. However, so good to see him back on track for a competitive season. :)

    Great to see Johnny back on competitive ice. Watching Javi and Hanyu, and then Johnny reminds me of Johnny circa 2004-2006 (especially JWe's Rondo with red/black costume). Hope Johnny gets stronger throughout the season. This is a good start for him.

    Truly, I think Jeremy Abbott is better than everyone. I wish he could internalize that truth and rise to the top on the strength of belief in himself and his extraordinary talent.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Unfortunately Nathan Chen was unable to finish his 2nd JGP competition -- @USFigureSkating tweeted earlier today:
    Hopefully it's not a serious injury and he will be ready and able to compete in the Junior Men's event at Pacific Coast Sectionals next month to qualify for Nationals. He has a bye through Central Pacific Regionals this month for being the defending national champ returning in Jr.

    ETA: I'm cross-posting this fun item from another thread... Nathan Chen recently made the Oct. 1st issue of Sports Illustrated's "Faces in the Crowd" page :)cheer: for the inclusion of a figure skater!): http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/scorecard/faces/2012/10/1/index.html
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Hope Nathan heals well and soon. Thanks for the SI link. Very cool -- his accomplishments are amazing.

    Any word on how he suffered the leg injury (in practice?), and what kind of injury is it?
  6. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

    What a hot piece of ass!


    Sorry but someone has to say it! :slinkaway :swoon:
  7. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    It's just a jump to the left
    And then a step to the right
    With your hands on your hips
    You bring your knees in tight
    But it's the pelvic thrust that really drives you insane,

    :scream:
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  8. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    No they don't. :saint:
  9. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I just watched Johnny's program, and if he thinks he can turn up at Nationals and win with that, he's got another think coming.

    Bland, bland, tacky.
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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  11. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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  12. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Ohhhhhh that was exciting! :watch:

    Round One:

    Weir vs. Dornbush:

    Dornbush winner!!!

    Next stop Abbott vs. Lysacek :EVILLE:
  13. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the TES in my link above, Ricky w/ 1 fall actually beat a clean Hanyu in TES!

    Very exciting!
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Good for Richard! I still like Richard's sp better. His fp is good and he obviously performed well, but I found it a bit too frenetic in some places, plus Jeremy Abbott did this style of program far more masterfully last season. I see Richard attempting to incorporate the story-telling elements from his fp of two seasons ago, but his effort for this fp so far doesn't work for me on the level of artistic interpretation. Still it is early yet, and in any case, fs judges don't really care about artistry as long as technical difficulty and consistency is achieved.

    I'm sure Richard will get better and better as the season progresses, and it's great to see him so strong and confident, and back on track. He definitely has two solid programs, and I'm glad the skate boot problem was solved too. :)
  15. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    Indeed! Ricky's BV was nearly four points higher than Yuzuru's, which is about how much he lost on the fall with quad (-1 fall + -3 GOE). But he made it with major +GOE. He got a whopping 1.63 points for that awesome 3Z-3T combo I mention earlier and a 1.17 for the 4T-2T and the choreographic step sequence.
  16. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't the toe be called the Dornbush Toe since no one else has done a 3toe with both-hands-over-head yet :)

    And Nobunari Oda has the Oda Loop.
  17. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    Okay, I'll play -- What a beautiful Rippon Lutz-Dornbush Toe! :D
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    :lol: Ha ha, yes but the younger guys have the overall advantage, IMHO, because "you can't teach old dogs new tricks." If Jeremy Abbott brings his A game consistently, IMO, he's far better than most guys in the men's field. IOW, Jeremy Abbott and Dai Takahashi, IMO, are the main guys who combine superb artistry with superb technical brilliance. The key is in displaying consistency and mental strength under competitive pressure, especially for Jeremy. In Dai's case, it is just continuing to be spot on with landing the quads, because he's already mastered the mental game, and his artistry and charisma are out of this world.

    I am glad for Johnny that he's gone back to the drawing board/ competitive ice and is looking good. Obviously, he still has similar hurdles to overcome (i.e., judges' and others' personal opinions of him coloring their assessment of his skating, plus he is no longer at his physical peak). That's a lot to overcome, but I wish him well. Again, I'd much prefer watching a senior professional tour with Plush, Johnny, Evan, Lambiel, etc., and having them leave senior eligible tour to the youngins (young guns), and to the veterans who never stopped for a breather, i.e., Jeremy and Dai.

    Eh okay it is what it is. And you're right, olympic, it is also "very exciting" re Dornbush showing his competitive chops TES-wise against Hanyu. I think Hanyu has the potential for greatness both technically and artistically, but right now I think he only lacks maturity and experience (same as Richard for that matter). If all the eligible men continue to improve artistically and continue to develop technical consistency, it will be exciting to see all of them going at it. It is exciting to see Richard doing so well. Again, the plot only thickens for U.S. guys.

    In any case, I give the younger guys the advantage over the veterans coming back for Sochi -- even in Plush's case. ;)
    smurfy and (deleted member) like this.
  19. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha, but no, Rippon did it first with both arms overhead -- no matter what jump it was. All these guys are just copying Rippon (and Rippon was simply doing Boitano one better). Therefore, anytime anyone jumps with any arm overhead, they all are doing TanoRipp, eh? ;)

    ETA:
    Now that everyone is copying Rippon, I'm just waiting for when the move will be given more credit for its difficulty
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  20. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    Well the 3-3 TanoRipp combo sounds pretty good, actually!
  21. skatefan102

    skatefan102 New Member

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    I can't wait for this :)
  22. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Ha ha, what are their lifetime, head-to-head stats?


    Yeah, TanoRipp does have a nice ring to it -- seemingly everybody is at least working on one, if not unveiling one successfully in competition. ;)

    Oh, you're just jealous. :lol:

    Seriously, Johnny has some solid programs this season with good music and choreo. He's lost none of his smoothness and artistry. And it's not a bad start to the season for him, despite the obvious flaws on some of his jumps. I also read that he had to break in new skates prior to the start of the season. Skating under CoP has never been as kind to Johnny as it should be, I think largely because he has been such an intuitive, improvisational skater. CoP forces Johnny to think more, rather than to simply feel and flow with the music. Unfortunately, I also don't think it helped Johnny when reportedly Galina tinkered with his jump technique after he began training with her. Blast that 3-loop which has never been a favorite jump for Johnny. Still it's early in the season and his hard work shows. Lots of skaters are using his former music and rockin' Johnny-flavored costumes too. ;)

    Even tho' I feel the younger guys have the advantage, anything can happen in figure skating. Who knows, maybe experience will end up being the trump card for Weir and Lysacek, and Abbott too. No matter who ends up going to Worlds for U.S. men, they really need to bring back three spots. There is just too much depth in U.S. men's field for anything less. But the guys have got to pace themselves throughout this season, for as important as U.S. Nationals is, perhaps the most important of all national championships, the chosen/ prevailing two have got to harness the necessary stamina and focus to "kill it" at Worlds.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  23. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    I think Johnny's programs have wonderful potential although I am not a fan of his short program music (I think the first part is too slow). Unfortunately Johnny's biggest enemy has always been his nerves. He said last night in Finland that he left out a lot from his program (choreo and transitions) because he got nervous after messing up his first 3A. Johnny told reporters his skate at CoR would be much different because now that the first competition nerves are over, he won't make the same mistakes.
  24. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Man, Ricky's PCS were totally underscored. I don't see how he could be 4 points lower in components than Hanyu, who is great at jumps and spins, but not as masterful at the second mark.

    His technical was very exciting though indeed! He would've had the highest base technical at Worlds last year by over 5 points !! In addition, his total technical score was higher than anyone's at Worlds. If he can skate two clean programs at nationals, I think he will make it to Worlds. :D :D
  25. Impromptu

    Impromptu Well-Known Member

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    Considering that for years intermediate ladies have been doing their double jumps with both hands over their heads to try to get extra points (seriously, the first time I ever saw anyone do a jump with their arms in that position, it was at a club competition in the late 90s - a novice girl did her double axel that way), I don't even think Rippon should get credit for it.
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    2012-13 competition scores, including international, for the U.S. Sr. men to date: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/2012-2013-senior-men-scores/

    Nathan Chen currently holds the highest Junior men's score (222.00) from the JGP in Austria, followed by Novice champ Vincent Zhou (195.19) at the SoCal Inv. Series Final last month. Chen's highest summer competition score was 185.33 at L.A. Open in July (where Zhou placed 1st overall, 2nd to Chen in the FS). The next 2 are Shotaro Omori (181.03) at Golden West and Jordan Moeller (161.02) at Glacier Falls in August.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  27. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Midori Ito was doing it at least as early as the 1987-88 season.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl3PelmX05M&feature=player_detailpage#t=35s
  28. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Skate America is 10/19- 21: Abbott, Lysacek and Razzano get their first shots. I believe that this is the next major competition? BTW, any word on Lysacek as to whether he will compete or not? It may not be fair, but I'm honestly half-expecting him to pull out ...

    Coupe de Nice, 10/24 - 10/28: Aaron gets his 2d shot to improve even more.

    Skate Canada, 10/26 - 10/28: Miner can also improve

    And, when is Ice Challenge? It will be nice to see Armin again in a 2d Senior B, and make up for the fact he didn't get a GP assignment.

    ETA - I got off my lazy butt and looked - Ice Challenge is 11/6 - 11/10
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  29. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Dornbush's lp is the first program I have seen this season that excited me and I am not even a particular fan of the music. Beautifully choreographed and skated.

    Weir has his work cut out for him. His program appeared very empty compared to someone's like Richard's. Hopefully much was left out. As long as Johnny has been competing (and even considering the hiatus), I find it difficult to buy into the "nerves" excuse and the effect of the messed up triple axel. The practice session for his lp was videotaped and he basically "stroked" around most of the time instead of doing anything near a run through. I hope he improves greatly before his first competition.
  30. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Johnny never does a full run through at the practice sessions so what he did at Finlandia was not unusual. I do believe Galina has him doing full run throughs at practice, something Priscilla Hill did not push with him. It will be interesting to see how Ricky does this year, if he can keep up the technical or if he implodes as he did last year at Nats.
  31. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    See it is skates like these that justify USFS giving Dornbush a break during his tougher times. He has scoring potential. He just beat Weir by nearly 40 points, even though he also made mistakes in both programs. Armin M's personal best is nearly 30 points lower.

    Not impressed with Weir's programs. There's nothing there.
  32. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    I wonder if a clean Dornbush can beat Abbot. I don't think he could beat Evan, but perhaps Jeremy...
  33. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to see if Dornbush could hold it together during the major competitions or if he becomes a head case when the pressure increases.
  34. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    ^ that's opposite of what I'm thinking. Ricky at his very best might as well beat Evan at his best but clean Jeremy? Don't think so.
  35. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    That's the thing. Remember how he skated oh so billiantly at '11 Nationals but went on melting down at worlds. And last season was sort of a mirror how he was not handling the pressure well.

    But I do think he's learned a lot from it and it'll be somehow different with him.
  36. Spiralgraph

    Spiralgraph Active Member

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    I'm not remembering what you are about Dornbush at 2011 worlds. He performed very credibly, with a top ten finish. The highest finish of the three American men IIRC.
    Now 2012 was a major disappointment. But that's not to say Richard can't bounce back and skate well this year. Let's see what happens.
  37. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Agreed :S I didn't think his performance at worlds was a meltdown at all...


    BTW I didn't mean Clean Dornbush v clean abbot v clean Lysacek. I meant clean Dornbush v normal abbot v normal Lysacek. Lysacek tends to be the most consistent so that's why I say that I'm not sure that Dornbush could beat him - even clean.
  38. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    You're both right. I don't know why I was remembering his world performancee that year were meltdowns :yikes:

    And again, yes johndockley I see your point. Normal Evan is pretty reliable but normal Jeremy is not :(
  39. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    It will all come down to who can withstand the pressure of competition. We haven't even seen Lysacek or Abbott's programs yet so it's too early to predict that Ricky (or anyone else) will be a guaranteed medal at Nationals or Worlds.
  40. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, Dornbush revealed this summer that he had a problem with a blade last season and didn't figure out the problem until after his last competition. I would give him the benefit of the doubt on this one and not call him a headcase without further evidence.