U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Did Armin finish out of the top 10? How about Keegan ?

    It'll be interesting to see how the international judges will score Aaron. Outside of the jumps there weren't much going on in his LP.
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  3. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Really? Although I agree he didn't have much 'artistry' (watching Jeremy's long program is like watching a ballet. Watching Max, I felt like I was watching great, athletic skating), I thought he had some good program components- I thought he demonstrated amazing speed, great sureness and flow, to me he had great projection and decent character, he had very good ice coverage. I'd like to see more in the way of transitions, but otherwise, PCS is not really the same as artistry.

    I know he is going to get killed at World's, he has basically no international experience, and that clearly matters. That said, the new scoring system does allow for a 'no one' to win if they really kill it and the judges judge what is out on the ice that day. Aaron said it himself when he was asked if he was worried about skating first in the short: judges don't have to hold places for the later skaters anymore, they judge what the skaters put out there. So I at least think he has a better chance of doing well at Worlds under this system than the old one, but being a 'nobody' is a scary thing in figure skating. (At least, training with Chan, he has a realistic view of what Worlds is going to be like.)
  4. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping that Abbott is declining 4CC becuase he knows he'll be too busy looking for a new coach. :shuffle:
  5. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    I don't think Aaron is going to be perceived as a nobody. He's the U.S. national champion, so that will carry some weight. And it's not like he's never been to an international event before. He won the Senior B hosted in the U.S. this year and came in second at the Senior B in Nice. He was also 5th at Junior Worlds in 2011, so it's not like he just dropped out of the sky. No, he doesn't have a lot of experience at the senior level, but he's not coming with a complete blank slate either.
  6. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Winning a senior B is definetly a good thing, but he hasn't even been to a Grand Prix. He's going to really have to skate lights out at Worlds (and clearly, he is capable of it)- I don't think judges are going to do him any favors.
  7. Jem X

    Jem X Awaiting Skate America

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    Well, he's going to 4CC's, so he'll have a chance to establish some rep there.
  8. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    Max's skating reminds me a bit of the combination of Elvis and Yag's skating.
  9. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    So our Canadian cousins have their very own 'Quad King'. :cool:
  10. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    This is so strange to me. Aren't coaches/choreographers supposed to be up on which skills do or do/don't count or even are legal/illegal in their sport? :confused: I should think that as a skater matures perhaps they too should also try to make themselves familiar with something so crucial to their results as many athletes do in their respective sport/s. I would anyway.
  11. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

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    I followed Aaron's career all last year & watched his progression. He is not likely to fold under pressure internationally like Abbott has done & will continue to do the US proud, IMO. I tho't he could medal but must admit I expected Ross to win the Gold. I'm still floating on air because of the results. We have a lot of promising talent coming up behind these 2 & its exciting to watch as it unfolds.
  12. flyingsit

    flyingsit Well-Known Member

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    More like Kevin Van Der Perren to me.
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Article on Max Aaron's big win yesterday: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130127&content_id=41211420&vkey=ice_news

    Pre-Nationals article - Road to Omaha: Aaron will leave nothing on table

    ETA link to this Arizona article (Aaron's home state): http://www.azcentral.com/sports/aze...-figure-skating-senior-mens-championship.html
    Excerpt:
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  14. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Kevin Reynolds is about as boring a skater as Tim Goebel. :lol:
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think if Max got a new choreographer he'd be fine. I'm not a huge fan of Pasquale's work for singles skaters, it seems like a lot of his programs are pretty empty, I've certainly noticed this with the programs he's choreographed for Czisny, Verner, Brezina, Gold, etc. over the past few years - nice moments in there but largely empty and often times the music choices seem somewhat random. I think with Wilson or Dickson programs his skating could seem more complete and less connect-the-jumps. He has a lot of good qualities, his current programs just don't really show them off apart from the jumps.

    I feel the same way about Josh Farris. It's cool that he likes to help with the choreography of his programs, and while Damon Allen is obviously a great coach for him, I think given his recent successes and plans to jump to the senior level internationally next season, it's time for him to get a big boy choreographer that can really show his skating off and prove he's more than just the "wide eyed teenager" with "complete, well-rounded skating and nice jumps". I think he has loads of potential and the ability to be a stunning artistic skater, he just needs someone, I'm thinking Wilson or Dickson, though I know he's worked with Mills in the past who could also be a good choice, to really draw it out of him. While I personally don't find him boring, I see why others do, and he has moments that show he really is capable of a lot more.
  16. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    USFS now makes changes to the rules continuously, I've talked to my ice dance coach about this as he's a national competitor. The changes can come out of the blue and you may not have the time to make the change before competition. Trust me, skaters and coaches do the best to keep up, but it isn't easy these days.
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ THIS!
  18. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I think the main problem is that no way is any judge at Worlds going to give him a 9 for PCS. I hate Nationals inflation for that reason; it creates an unrealistic expectation for the skater and their coach/es. I'm sure Aaron understands the concept of Nats inflation, and I hope he skates at Worlds like he did here - because that was fun!
  19. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    It was an ISU rule, not a USFS one and it had been in effect the entire season. The problem is, he changed the spin after all the Grand Prixs. If he had that spin in his program during the summer comps, it would have been caught- as that is when callers and IJS experts go over the elite skaters programs with a fine tooth comb.
  20. query5

    query5 New Member

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    glad they tried in competition and even ur, hopefully they will keep trying and putting quad in competition unlike
    evan who didn't-jeremy took it out now try to put back in.
    you have to keep quad in competition to be successful .
  21. query5

    query5 New Member

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    also surprised in an article that states evan want to win 2 olympic medals.
    unless he come back for real in competition i highly doubt it, with the 2 quads intact like states he has.
    didn't put one in olympics why should believe him now.
  22. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Lol, yep, and now we Americans have OUR own "Quad King" in Max Aaron. :hat1:

    Btw, I've watched his FS again over on youtube (IN won't have it up until Tuesday ON DEMAND) and was blown way once again, and noticed things I mght've missed the first time, like that FAB 3T-1/2R-3S sequence, as well as ending with the 3R jump! :cool: But more than anything else I noticed how much Max reminds me of another long-time favorite of mine, Elvis Stojko, they're built similar and are T O U G H. 'nuff said :cool:

    What a joy it's going to be to watch Max over the years, my gosh he's only 20 yrs. old, just imagine what's ahead, WOW, and he's American, a big plus, we *finally* have our own "Quad King"...
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Max Aaron - Looking forward, I'm very happy that Max is going to 4CC's. He needs to test drive his skates in a high quality field that includes the Japanese and Canadian Men. It will be very interesting to see where he will place relative to the best in the world. I'm also glad that Tom Z has Max working with someone like Pasquale Camerlango, and he's not trying to handle his choreography *yikes*. But, there were quite a few throw-away moments in the choreography of WSS and too many stand-and-pose moments. Still, I do see some improvements.

    I think Max shouldn't pluck his eyebrows. Natural eyebrows would look better and compliment his strong facial features. Same goes for the hair ... small points, but they may matter in a situation where skaters are separated by 0.10.

    Ross Miner- I'm a believer and a fan of Ross Miner, now. He generates nice speed and has nice, powerful jumps. Congrats to him on strong performances and I hope it continues for Worlds and beyond.

    I think the US men have a legit shot at obtaining 3 spots for 2014.

    So much has been said re Jeremy Abbott that there is nothing that I could say or add to the conversation, besides that I think his best days are behind him. It's just maybe not meant to be.

    Joshua Farris has a bright future and I was sad that he was not able to land the Quad. I do hope this is not the start of a bad pattern, though.

    Hooray for Adam Rippon - Of all the competitors, he is one who stands out for having conquered a chronic problem (3x) and just looking like a different competitor. I think training w/ Rafael Arutunian has been the smartest move by any skater in these championships. So, I hope he can tackle a Quad next year.

    Richard Dornbush- I like the guy, but he seems to have some rotten luck. I hope it finally comes together for him.
  24. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I saw the analogy too but didn't see it as a good thing.

    Between the lack of natural musicality, the rotten spins and the poor posture, one could tell he is a Tom Z student from ten blocks away.

    Still, he absolutely earned his World berth even though I would have given Miner the title instead. [ideally I would give the title to Miner and the silver to Farris]

    Fact: every time a Tom Z student goes to Worlds as a first time National champion, he or she places last amongst all US competitors.
  25. Sk8tn

    Sk8tn New Member

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    That will work just fine, as long as the placements are 6 and 7 (or 5 and 8, etc.) :D
  26. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    He was recovering from an injury at the time and, what's more, didn't need one.

    It is apparent from his interview on NBC on Sunday that he has been paying attention to what skaters in other countries have been doing and is well aware that he does would need one next year. Also, people here on FSU posted links to videos of him doing quadruple jumps in practice last year, so he obviously did go back to training them after the Olympics.

    That said, if he isn't landing quadruple jumps in practice later this year, he probably won't go forward with his current plans to compete at next year's U.S. Nationals
  27. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    He plucks his eyebrows!?! :confused: I didn't know that. Now that's something Elvis Stojko definitely would *not* do. :yikes: :scream:

    Actually imho Max resembles pair skater Nathan Bartholomay to an uncanny degree, even their build is the same, and they both skated to "West Side Story". :)^)

    Here's hoping Max continues to work hard on his PCS, so by this time next year he has the whole package. But as of now he's got the other guys beat, those fully rotated perfect quads and triples are divine, no other American man can touch, and just think he does all 7 of those triples (including two 3axels) in the second half of the program for bonus points. Wow, unbelieveably difficult to do on tired legs, especially ending with that 3R jump. But more than anything else he has learned to tame "the beast" (his words). :cool:
  28. PinkFeathers

    PinkFeathers Active Member

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    Not sure what you're trying to imply here, but ummm. Plucking ones eyebrows doesn't mean anything other than they care about their appearance.
  29. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    Alexander Johnson is amazing. I hope he'll get some international assignment(s) next year.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  30. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Very nice jumping - love the 3lutz half loop 3flip!
  31. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    He can actually skate to the music. Something Goebel has never managed. :p

    Don't blame the choreographer for the fact that Max doesn't have good basics and has never even remotely paid attention to the music so far. A choreographer can't get blood out of the stone.

    You mad? He looked like an Orangutan until he FINALLY sorted his eyebrows.

    His huge, bushy, dark eyebrows used to completely swamp his face.

    God, you're unbelievably sexist and narrow-minded.
  32. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    My favorite skates 2013 Nats mens event:

    Jeremy Abbott sp, plus his beautiful moves (not counting mistakes) in fp

    Max "Jet" Aaron
    sp: Tron Legacy Daft Punk, "You're the One"
    fp: West Side Story "You're the gold medal kid with the heavyweight crown. Yeah!"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exGJsv6ZNlo "Jet Song"

    Ross "The Boss" Miner sp and fp (I love Tom Dickson!)

    Adam "AdaRipp" Rippon sp and fp (What a cool layback spin :cool: And that 3-axel -- I love Rafael Arutunian!)

    Jason Brown -- both programs, he's got such style, charm and energy; and he landed the 3-axel!

    Wesley Campbell fp Ave Maria :swoon: :saint:

    Alexander Johnson -- both programs, especially fp :swoon: (Did I say how much I love Tom Dickson?!)

    Joshua Farris was so cute in the sp press conference. He did a good job in both programs. He's on his way.

    And shout out to Ricky, Philip, Armin, Keegan, Jonathan, Sean, Grant, et al. -- Keep going! Don't give up!


    I'm surprised not to see those who thought Max could win lording it. ;)
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  33. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    yay I am not alone :cheer:
  34. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Am I completely missing something? Max Aaron? I saw two quad sals and then after he lumbered to the halfway point he started jumping. What in the hell was there to like about that? And that is what wins national championships? I thought Ross and Jeremy absolutely outskated him. Do I need to start drinking again to understand this sport?

    I am also a Broadway slut, so I already have my programs to WSS or MFL or whatever done. And Aaron's WSS is so awful I can't even critique it.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  35. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    :eek: How dare you! His coach is Tom Z who has produced some of the finest US National Champions or medallists to place outside the top ten at Worlds in recent seasons. :shuffle:
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  36. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Max Aaron's basics are fine. His artistry needs work, I'll give you that, but he in no way has bad basics nor is his skating inferior in any aspects. He may not just be everyone's cup of tea. He only won because Ross popped his second 3a and Jeremy made mistakes anyways, can't blame the kid for going out and landing everything he planned in his program. I think he will do great at Worlds.

    I still want Ricky and Josh to go to Sochi, however.
  37. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Just off the top of my head: He's slouched, he has shallow edges and needs to scrape a lot of small cross-overs in order to generate speed (it looks like he's running on a treadmill). His movements are off-time most of the time.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  38. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

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    Sooooo, are Americans again going to send some obscure skaters and miss spots for the Olympics? :lol:
    There MUST be something between the American "ah, we are so strict" and the Russian "we do what we want" approaches :lol:

    Personally, I find Aaron pretty much unbearable, quads or not. He's so unfinished, unpolished and immature... Don't think he's going to have any favors from the judges on the international scene.
  39. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Aaron won US International Figure Skating Classic getting really high PCS from the judges after he landed his jumps. :/

    If he skates near clean programs at Worlds, he'll get 7s. Like Kovtun at Euros. Who needs choreo? :p
  40. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    After breaking your back there is not much upper flexibility.

    Sorry but that is/will be part of his skating. However, I do think we can get him to feel the music a bit better much much BETTER!!


    Glad he won nationals*