Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.
So true but sad I think this season, I'm learning more than ever how dangerous figure skating is.
I am done rooting for Abbott. He is still the best US male skater since Savoie, but he is just never going to be competitive / consistent. He definitely has it in him to win Nationals and maybe even medal at Worlds, but really, he has missed too many chances to be taken seriously.
I still really enjoy his skating and programs, but I guess he is never really meant to be a fierce competitor.
You always fail to disappoint, PeterG. Not wanting to morph into a chicken or ostrich are you?
Abbott is all about a line from The Joy Luck Club - 'never expect, just hope'
USFS tweeted re. Ross Miner's pre-Nationals media teleconference call today:
"Preparations have been going really well"
"We are a great skating nation. If you can make the World Team, that's a great accomplishment"
Will keep the quad in both programs
Count me in as another one who thought the 3A's back to back was really cool, especially if Jeremy executed they way we know he can.
Jeremy really needs to concentrate on being clean at Nationals and Worlds. To me, the inconsistency in his quad is not his biggest problem (or should even be his main focus) at this point. It's all the other little silly mistakes with easier triples that really add up. He may not be in the Top 3 without a quad, but he could be in the top 5 easily (depending on the competition that day) with a decent quad attempt and fall and an otherwise clean program.
What does everyone think about the chances of Evan competing at Nationals? I haven't read anything that indicates he isn't going to be there. It would sure make the event more exciting.
I keep forgetting about Evan's possible return. Guess that says it all for me.
If he were a "sure thing" (i.e., definitely going, not iffy) it would be banner headlines. Anything to boost interest and sell tickets would be out there, big-time. Personally, I think the chances are slim that we'll see him at Nationals. The question is whether he is really improved enough, physically to be able to skate at World's. If so, we'll see rumors floating about a "bye" to Worlds--if that's possible considering his extended absence from competition. We'll know in a couple of weeks, if not before.
It would add to the intrigue if Evan does turn up at the 11th hour, but I think even without Evan, U.S. Nationals is definitely going to be exciting in all disciplines. And if Johnny Weir at his peak were going to be there, it would be even more exciting. Alas, the Johnny and Evan bust-ups are probably a thing of the past. The up-and-coming guys and the veteran Abbott, will go to battle and there will be no lack of excitement, IMHO. I just wish Johnny was going to be commentating again, but that is unlikely to happen this year. Maybe he will make an appearance during the backstage interviews.
Jeremy skated an excellent short program at the DSC send-off show. The streaming link finally became operational for the last group (but no audio). JA has some new spins--I think he took out the back camel that seems to give him fits. All jumps were fine. His triple axel was almost TOO high but he had a good landing.
I am with dinakt and others in loving the back to back triple axels on the musical phrase in Jeremy's long. I want to see Jeremy win everything but it's almost irrelevant at this point--clean programs with heart will do me just fine. He's one of the best ever, in my 45 years of watching skating.
Thanks for all the latest info. on Jeremy, much much appreciated by me.
Can't wait to see the new spins!
Wishing him all the best at Nationals, and Worlds if he makes it.
ps: and I agree with your last sentence, except *for me* he's the best I've ever seen from America.
I'm very relieved Jeremy skated well here. For some reason, the years he did well at his send off shows he also did well at nationals. (Keeping fingers crossed for him)
Here's Abbott's SP (filmed from stands): http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ty0-V2VkxBw
^^ Good program, wish he'd take out that wretched upright spin. But otherwise, good.
I thought the change foot solo spin must be camel or sit, no?
Was Abbott's upright spin his combo spin? ETA: Or he included in just for this exhibition performance.
New Abbott article that includes quotes from Yuka Sato: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130114&content_id=40960846&vkey=ice_news
He's an amazing skater, but he will never be one of the great champions. He just don't have the mental toughness. It must be tough for Yuka, but she seems very diplomatic about Jeremy and his limits.
I'm glad Jeremy is ditching the back to back 3As. It's a nice idea, but a lot to ask of any skater, especially in the second half of a freeskate.
I'm also glad he ditched the circular quad entrance. I can't recall anyone having luck doing a quad toe from that type of entry. It was a disaster for Todd Eldredge.
I see that Evan's name is still on the list of senior men qualifiers. There is no indication that he has withdrawn.
I was doing my predictions and was shocked that he was on the list. I'd forgotten about him. He is definitely a question mark in Nationals. He could be the spoiler or he could have a comeback a la Johnny. Who knows?
Ha ha, I just wish Johnny were going to be doing the senior men commentating for Icenetwork again this year, with Evan competing on the ice.
Unfortunately, we have Michael Weiss, Tonia K, and Mike Mancuso to look forward to re commentating duties. Whatever excitement there is in the arena will unfortunately be blunted by the inevitable blah PC commentary. NBC commentators will definitely NOT be any great shakes either, as usual.
Johnny was not perfect, but he was witty, informative, entertaining, and generally unbiased except for his fondness for guys' eyebrows and colorful sequined outfits. He was also funny, and fearless (as a Honey Badger). Moreover, I think Johnny framed last year's event so beautifully and succinctly at the end of Jeremy Abbott's free skate. Jeremy even tweeted how much he appreciated Johnny's commentary.
I think it would be problematic for Johnny to commentate if he is still serious about competing next year. There will be a lot of talk about the Olympic outlook.
Johnny did a great job covering U.S. senior men's event last January when it was already known that he was planning a comeback and therefore would likely be competing in 2013 against the guys he was covering in the broadcast booth. It didn't take anything away from Johnny's wonderful insights and witty perspective.
But yeah, I wouldn't expect Johnny to be commentating at this year's Nationals since his plan was to be competing. It's just that now Johnny won't be competing, he did such a great job last year, it'd be fun to see him commentating with Evan competing.
Sure, it's still up in the air whether or not Johnny will be making another comeback next season to try and make the Olympic team. He seems to have the intention of doing so. The question is what will it take for him to be as fit as possible and to have the high level technique he will need to be competitive?
It seems to me that Johnny took off two years with not a lot of consistent training, and I think that makes it doubly hard to come back. For example, look at Ilia Kulik who is about 4 years older than Johnny. Ilia did not stop training hard (of course he was quite young when he retired from eligible competition) and even though Ilia is older than Johnny now, I think Ilia's jumps look stronger than Johnny's, i.e. at recent Japan SOI. That could be because Johnny is apparently skating with some nagging injuries (after trying to make a comeback). However, I think it is more that Ilia has toured and trained consistently since he stopped competing around age 20.
Relevant article excerpts from the Jan. 11th SC of Boston send-off show thread posted in GSD:
Relevant excerpt from the latest Inside Edge blog, published today on IN: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130117&content_id=41002408&vkey=ice_news
Re-posting the Billy Bush interview with Evan L and Missy Franklin at Golden Globes, from the Evan update thread, Sylvia. Thanks!
Apparently, Evan is training hard and likely still planning to compete at Nationals, especially since he hasn't yet withdrawn.
BTW, re U.S. Men, does anyone know why Emanuel Savary did not compete at Sectionals? Is he injured? Also, is Philip Warren still being coached by Tammy Gambill? I didn't notice her with him at Sectionals (but maybe she was traveling with Ricky D at the time).
Thanks as usual, Sylvia! Sounds like everyone is raring to go!
Anyone know what the "unusual" mistake on Armin's 3A was? It sounds funny.
Oh no! I think Ilia got it right the first time, "I've got my Olympic gold medal. What's the point of continuing to compete eligibly?" Still, he continued to train and he looks good right now -- still obviously not in his former competitive shape. His jumps are still strong, but he's probably selective about which jumps he performs. I mentioned Ilia to point out Johnny has a lot of work ahead of him if he still intends to come back (especially since he did not continue to train hard during his two years off), but I'm sure Johnny already knows that.
^^ I think they meant to say he usually lands it, so to miss it was an unusual mistake from him.
Savary was injured most of this season. I was glad to read he skated in the Univ. of Delaware send-off show this past weekend: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...gs-CO-others&p=3791703&viewfull=1#post3791703
Gambill was with Dornbush in Russia during Sectionals. She will coach 3 Senior men (Dornbush, Warren, Rabbitt) and 2 Junior men (Zhou, Omori) at Nationals, plus several Novice ladies.
It might also be that Ilia Kulik, although he could be an inconsistent competitor, had some of the best jumps in history as an eligible.
^^ Quite true nylynnr, I thought of that too re Ilia. He has always had great technique and superb jumps. But Johnny was no slouch either with jumps at his best, albeit his loop was his weakest most disliked jump. However, I think the main thing is consistent training and no falling off re technique as the biggest factors in maintaining strength and ability on jumps, which for Johnny might be a factor.
Thanks Sylvia, I thought that might be the case re Tammy traveling with Ricky (already added ETA to my original post).
Wow, kudos and best of luck to Tammy and her crew.
Too bad about Savary's injuries. I wondered why they had him listed at Sectionals and called out his name when he wasn't going to be there. Is it because he never officially withdrew?
Seriously, how can one find the results of the regional and sectional competitions, i.e., actual placements. I know these competitions are lower level and not highly scrutinized or covered. On icenetwork, they barely even mentioned the scores, and didn't list placements at the end either. If senior men's regional and sectional results were posted in this thread, I missed it.
I was also wondering why Keegan Messing who has done well at Nationals and at senior B international events, did not receive a bye to Nationals. Did he not place high enough at Nationals last year?
All the results and scores, and protocols, are posted on icenetwork. Go to the home page, on the top, select events and results, and you will get a list. Click on the title of whatever regional or sectional competition it is you want to check. The standings pop up, and then, click on the plus sign (+) for the protocols.
^^ Thanks. I figured it should be available on IceNetwork, but it's often difficult to find links (even when they are on a webpage you are looking at ), and even harder sometimes to figure how to go about getting to the right webpage.
They are rather hard to find on IN. Links were posted in the U.S. Regional and Sectional competition threads in Kiss and Cry when the competitions were going on this past fall, and I've also compiled direct results links in my blog: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/regionals/ (9 Regionals) and http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/nationals/ (scroll down for the 3 Sectionals results links posted on the Nationals page).
Correct. Top 5 Seniors receive byes and Messing was 7th at 2012 Nationals.
^^ Thanks Sylvia. The men's field is sure loaded with talent, especially with a couple of very talented juniors moving up this year and the returning veteran seniors. There is such a depth of talent. It will be hard to make top ten even. Perhaps top 15 might look something like this, but not necessarily in this order.
Of course, Campbell, Hochstein, Johnson, Brewster, and Rabbitt are no slouches either. Indeed Johnson scored higher than Mroz at Sectionals so Johnson might make top 15 and Mroz might not. An exciting men's division, even without Evan and Johnny.
Fantastic news. I hope he can stay healthy and have a great showing next season. Savary has such a wonderful presence on the ice - he looks like he was born to skate. Is he still training with Frank Carroll?
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