U.S. men’s figure skaters mired in quad quandary

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Sugar

    Sugar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,435
    http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/21/figure-skating-quad-race/
     
  2. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,506
    Not as elusive as it used to be! Lol! There has been tremendous improvement and Aaron is doing well and can do them. Rollins quad lutz is a reach but not looking like it's impossible. Better to keep trying and fail sometimes because it's definitely not 2009 anymore where weir lysacek never tried them internationally. Lysacek was 0-1 and weir 0-0. Now most are working hard and trying and no longer have to think about zero or 1 or 2 points like lysacek weir.
     
  3. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,803
    I don't think Rippon is crying about messing up some of his quads, what with his Silver medal at Skate America and finishing higher than the reigning US National champ... ;)
     
  4. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    17,919
    Who's Lysacek Weir? Did someone go into the lab and make a hybrid skater? (Kidding! ;) )
     
  5. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    18,033
    And of course this article has to have Elvis saying how important quads are :rolleyes:
     
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,701
    I don't think Max's quads are inconsistent. It's just one of those days where it didn't work. I have always thought Max's quads are the most consistent among the American men. With quads now back in 'vogue', I am sure you will see the next generation of American men unleashing them in future.
     
  7. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,302
    Nice to see that you are back in form, caseyedwards, providing the only comment (as usual) to the article with emphasis on horrible Evan Lysacek and his horrible 2010 win. It's so nice to know you are still tossing and turning about that competition... :rolleyes:
     
  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,506
    Well what's the reason quads are back? The article was saying it's the new system but why did 99% of men abandon quads in short programs from 2007 to 2010? Why were the changes so biased in one direction after the 2010 Olympics? The answers are obvious. The extreme embarrassment of the technical regression symbolized and crystalized by Lysaceks horrendous victory would lead to quads back in sP and lp because of the system changes attacking quadless point accumulating methods.
     
  9. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,979
    Maybe but missing quads won't cut it if he ever makes it back to Worlds or the Olympics.
     
  10. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,546
    Haven't read the article yet, but the comments I have. :) And I agree that Max Aaron is pretty darn consistent with them, he just made a couple of errors is all, no biggie, heck he even came back after the halfway mark to land a nice quad after missing his first two during the opening, now that's pretty impressive. :cool: Also, I read over in the K&C that he landed 3 of them during his exhibition skate. :smokin:

    As for Adam Rippon, IIRC that's the first time he's actually landed his quad lutz during competition and it was a beauty (barely noticed the very very slight 2foot). :hat1: Though I admit Brandon Mroz (the first man in history to ever land one in competition) makes it look like child's play. :) If Adam keeps this up he's bound to blow everybody away at Nationals. :cool:
     
  11. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,803
    Because the way he skates at the first international of the season is the way he's going to skate forever... :rolleyes:

    I think his season is off to a great start, myself. He did quite well for himself and he can build on this performance.
     
  12. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,863
    I always kind of thought that hybrid would produce a skater with a work ethic and a better balance of tech and artistry, actually.
     
  13. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    6,235
    Are they conveniently going to leave out that pretty much everyone except Machida and Gachinski also messed up/missed their quads? Because that's what happened in the FS. It wasn't just the Americans.

    Max will be fine. He's had to spend so much time addressing the haters' shrieks about his "lack of artistry" that it doesn't surprise me the quads are a little wonky. Adam's Lutz was a beauty. Much better than Mroz's but maybe I also think that because Adam has nicer all-round skating. Jason doesn't have one yet, obviously. Or at least not one that he's showing us.

    Next week at Skate Canada will be Joshua, Jeremy and Ross. Ross has a quad sal (but we haven't seen it this year yet, have we?). Jeremy maybe has a quad toe (when was the last time he actually landed it? Ever?). Joshua has quad sal and toe but hasn't displayed the sal in competition yet and hasn't landed the toe in competition since September last year.

    I think that this is a very exciting time in figure skating for the men. Quads everywhere, men pushing themselves and sport further. This is how it goes!
     
  14. Fudove

    Fudove Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    39
    Agree all around. I think Mura, Hanyu and Chan know a few things about quads too . ;)
    Jason was the only skater that failed to include a quad at SA. I believe that all of the men at SC have them planned. So Elvis can get a good night's sleep tonight :rofl:
     
  15. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,546

    Fiinally read this article about American men figure skaters and the quad, and I have to say the #1 thing I'm attracted to when it comes to Max Aaron is his confidence. Bar none. Even in real life I'm attracted to those that exude confidence; it's an aphrodisiac, always has been. :cool: I love his words at the very end of the article ~ "there's no backing down". :respec: And my all-time favorite quote from Aaron is go big or go home. Truer words were never spoken...

    He's a man of his word!

    ps: also love the link to Evgeni at the very end of the article. Now that man is the definition of confidence; you'll find a pic of him under it. jmho.
     
  16. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,299
    I don't think ANY of the men can take quads for granted except maybe Plushenko, and he doesn't compete much anymore.
     
  17. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    The way I see it, Max has spent time addressing the "lack of artistry" because he wants to improve his second mark and the marks are given by the judges. Unless you think that the judges (national ones included) are Max Aaron haters.
     
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,822
    NOT quad jumps -- just quadruple revolution jumps! The quad in and of itself is not a jump. It's either a quad toe, quad salchow, or the more difficult quad lutz, and quad loop, and I'm missing one ... quad toe-loop. Which ones have never been performed in competition?
     
  19. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,418
    "Toe" is short for toe loop. The other jumps that are performed as multi-revolution jumps and have values in the judging system are axel and flip.

    Only the quad toe loop, quad salchow, and quad lutz have been executed cleanly in international competition. Daisuke Takahashi attempted a quad flip once or twice. Brandon Mroz has attempted a quad loop at least domestically in the U.S. (can't remember off hand if he tried it internationally), and I believe a few skaters a number years ago tried it as well (Roman Serov I think?). I don't believe anyone has ever attempted a quad axel in competition (yikes, that would be hard!).
     
  20. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,626
    Kulik had a quad toe in his winning long program in yes, 1998 - that long ago and he was hardly the first.

    BTW, Kulik once commented that the quad axel was unlikely - it's four and a half revolutions. Would need very tight revolutions (btw, was impressed with that from Machida at SA - good form) and a lot more air time than we're used to seeing. Well, maybe some phenom will come along some day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  21. valyrian

    valyrian New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    78
    I wish quads weren't such a big deal. Good thing to have, yes, but they really aren't the most exciting part of a program. Max Aaron may have 3 quads in his freeskate and yes, that's very impressive, but he needs serious work on spins, footwork, skating skills, transitions.

    Look at Ryan Bradley and Brandon Mroz - quad cautionary tales. Working on them to the detriment of all else is a terrible idea. Stephane Lambiel had a quad every once in a while but it wasn't the focus of his skating.
     
  22. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,592
    Wasn't Lambiel regularly going for two quads a program during his last seasons?

    Agree with everything else, though.
     
  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Yes because pointing out obvious and glaring flaws in somebody's skating = being a 'hater.' :shuffle:

    You're right of course but to be fair to Aaron, he seems to have worked very hard on improving his presentation since last season.
     
  24. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,479
    And when the quads fail, they have nothing else to fall back on.
     
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    20,599
    I disagree with this: I do.think that Mroz gave a shot to improving his presentation, and people lurve Bradley as a showman and entertainer.

    ITA. He isn't going to turn into Lambiel overnight, but he's giving a great shot at becoming a fine all-around skater and a good interpreter.
     
  26. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    6,235
    No. But the huge majority of the criticism I saw last season about him was NOT about his edgework, his quality, his spins, or anything like that. It was about his artistry; it was people being critical because he wasn't Jeremy Abbott.

    Now he's worked hard on addressing that, and the focus has switched to his skating skills. Proving that he'll never make everybody happy.
     
  27. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,479
    They didn't get the PCS (internationally) even when they land their jumps, and definitely not when they didn't. Very much like the French lady at Skate America. Bradley was wildly entertaining, but it didn't change the fact that his speed, basics and spins were way below par, no less for a US Champion. Mroz's effort showed, but overall he lacked projection and personality and very much gave up if he didn't hit those opening quads.
     
  28. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,479
    Not at all. Ziggy and I were all over his choppy edges and sloppiness last season.

    He doesn't have to make anyone happy but then he does need to improve on various aspects of his skating if he wants to have a shot at top 5 at the Sochi Olympics. The programs and expressions are better but the skating skills and execution could still be improved. He scored the lowest PCS out of all 3 men at Skate America.
     
  29. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    403
    I always thought the Quad Lutz was worth 12.7, But the woman on Eurosport said it's worth 15 points, Is that true ?

    Because if it is, Then yes, It could cut it for him, If he manages to rotate it, And fall, It would still be worth more than quad toe .
     
  30. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,908
    :respec: Max, keep up the good work, believe in yourself! Don't let the naysayers get you down! :encore: