U.S. Ladies [#9]: Battle to/in Boston

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 12, 2013.

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  1. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    In various years, Mirai, Agnes or Christina also did not go to worlds at all and not always 4CC yet they got Grand Prix assignments, as did Caroline and Flatt. I think it is more bc Sam was injured at nationals and did not medal on JGP until last year I think. She is the same age as Mirai yet has significantly less senior experience. By not having last season on the senior Grand Prix, I think that probably hurt her. She might be doing better now if she had another year on the Grand Prix instead of being in juniors last year. She is skating well despite that, but she might be skating better if she had that experience.
  2. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    yes, and Alex Johnson got the same when he was 7th at nationals? But that would not be a way to get her a qualifying score for jr worlds. Not that I say she should go no question, but girls with less impressive scores have been sent to get a q score. For me, it is not so much one case or two, but the hope that US will learn to be more flexible about assignments in the future
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I wish the US would use even more Senior B's in general; Golden Spin, NRW Trophy, etc. Perhaps using these competitions when they see a young lady doing really well on the Regionals / Sectionals circuit (Francesca Chiera) would go far. They might use Challenge Cup in February. I realize money issues creep in, but that's just my wish.
  4. her grace

    her grace Well-Known Member

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    If Edmunds finishes in the top three at nationals, she should get to go to the Olympics. The third U.S. girl is not going to medal at the Olympics, barring a major Wylie moment, so let the best from nationals go. It's not like Zawadzki, Gao, Nagasu, Hicks, and Cesario are so much better skaters. They're all hovering in the 171-175 point bracket on the SB list (minus Hicks since her Skate Canada score was poor). They've all done decently in their international assignments. If Edmunds defeats them all at nationals, she should get to go. What would be irresponsible would be sending a skater who couldn't even defeat the junior-circuit skater at the pressure-filled national championships!

    This year's selections were the best in recent memory. There is still room for improvement, and worse, poor selection in the past continues to have ripple effects.

    Many of us criticized the federation in real time about the Gracie Gold situation. It was clear as day that she was dominating the junior fields at the summer monitoring competitions. Her selection was a complete no-brainer, and yet USFS could only manage one spot for her. Heck, I even said that Edmunds should have been selected for a JGP back when she was 13. You better believe she deserved it more than some of the other selections, e.g., Daniels, and I said that in real time, too. Sure, there will be skaters who look promising and everything doesn't come together for them. It's equally true that there are skaters who look like they are struggling mightily, and yet they still get assigned. Keiser's withdrawal from the JGP this year is the first time in a long, long time that someone who wasn't ready stepped back. And wasn't that the case? I think I recall reading that it was her and her coach who decided to give the assignment back, not that USFS took it back from her. USFS needs to either wait to pick their athletes until closer to the event and with good monitoring or they need to be willing to take back prematurely-assigned spots.
  5. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and I say this as a fan of a few of the skaters you mentioned. This notion of "she can't possibly be ready because she never competed as a senior before" is hogwash. There's been plenty of juniors to light up the scene their first time out, and there's plenty of veterans who completely bomb at big competitions with no warning. The point of sports and the Olympics is for people to compete for the spots, not have them awarded from experience. Otherwise what is the point of these competitions? Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson weren't handed spots in the most recent Olympics gymnastics teams even though they were the biggest names still in the game-they had to prove their worth by competing, and as it turned out, they weren't good enough and/or too injured the second time around to make the team. And that led to the right people being named.

    As for JGP, I think there is always going to be a struggle when the most recent Nationals from January is the only major comp you have to go by- summer comps will never be taken as seriously, unless there is one major designated summer comp. This year was a bit lucky because all the major players had competed and done well at Nationals last year, whereas usually you have a few skaters who are on fire during the summer comps but missed or did poorly at Nationals and its not possible to resolve that fairly to all parties involved. I would advocate for a system that required all the players to show up at a competition mid-summer, and then have a definitive points system that takes into account score & placement from Nationals and also score and placement from the mid-summer comp, so there is a clear order of which skaters to assign. I doubt it would happen but it sure would be nice.
  6. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    I also believe that third Olympic spot should go to the skater who earns the spot at U.S. Nationals. Period. I don't see any compelling reason to give the spot to anyone else -- unless, of course, Wagner finishes 3rd. Unless injured, Wagner should go no matter what, IMHO.

    O-
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  7. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    ^^ and adding I think the second and third spots should go to the people who earn them.
  8. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Agree, especially that Wagner should be named to the Olympic Team if healthy. She has proven herself over 3 seasons, especially the current season, that she is the best US competitor, and that should override a single Nationals placement. There is precedence in such an action , one year they sent Kimmie to Worlds even though she placed lower than Katrina Hacker, the 3rd highest qualifying , age-eligible skater. I think Ashley's case this year is stronger than Kimmie's was.
  9. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Ashley has really earned her trip the past 3 seasons, I totally agree. I think she is more worthy than the combined efforts of the next 3 US ladies. Can we send Ashley Wagner x3 to the games? If one of them goes clean then that Ashley will likely end up on the podium, the other two will obviously be top 6 as they will have solid skates. The girl is a fighter.

    ETA: I'm alright with Ashley x2 and Gracie Gold x1 :D
  10. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    As long as that skater isn't propped up ala Agnes.
  11. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Not if South Korea sends Yu-Na Kim x3. :lol:
  12. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I hear you, and agreed. Agnes has been completely unremarkable this season. Maybe that will change come Nationals, but, if not, I want the judging to reflect what is put out on the ice.

    O-
  13. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    WHOA. I take it back, we can only send one of each skater! hahahaha. We can't compete with Yuna x3!
  14. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Did you mean if Wagner finished fourth?

    Anyways, while I agree with the sentiment, I am more inclined to believe that certain skaters will be 'supported' to 'earn' their spot for Sochi.
  15. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Any news on Gracie's new SP? I thought she was to perform it sometime this week. I'd be interested in the music choices, how she performed, anyone's impressions.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Reportedly it's Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor - some show reports/mixed reviews starting here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...er-11-7-30-P&p=4077177&viewfull=1#post4077177

    ETA that Gracie's SP music is from the second and third movements of Grieg's piano concerto - video link has been posted in a new GSD thread here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?90228-Gracie-Gold-s-new-short-program
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
  17. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Gracie just needs to land her jumps simple as that. She can spend next season getting better programs since she won't be looking for a coach like she was this season. If she lands her jumps she's going to Sochi. I don't see her being clean at Nationals because she hasn't had a competition as a Senior where she was clean but it would be interesting if she did. Wagner might be a bit worried about getting that 3rd title.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  18. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    I guess, in actuality, I meant if Wagner finished 2nd or 3rd -- since those placements aren't guaranteed Olympic spots -- though historically they've been awarded them.

    (The context of my post was in response to those posts specifically discussing the 3rd spot. That's why I worded it that way.)

    O-
  19. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    Actually none of the medalists are guaranteed an Olympic spot (if any of them were, Nationals would become an Olympic trial and USFSA would have to pay $$$ to the USOC). However, in reality, all the medalists are extremely likely to get sent to Sochi.
  20. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    ^^^
    THIS!
  21. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    They may fudge the numbers but I doubt they will use the Michelle Kwan save on anyone other than Ashley. The top 3 will be going to Olympics, none of the ladies did anything this season to justify them going if they finish 4th except maybe Ashley.
  22. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    The "Michelle Kwan" save? Not a good analogy. Michelle Kwan didn't need help from anyone at Nationals.

    O-
  23. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    :)
  24. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    In 2006 she was named to the team without even competing at nationals. I suspect that is what the op is referring to.
  25. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    That was my assumption as well.
  26. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Mine too. Wasn't Nancy Kerrigan the only other skater who was just named to the Olympic team (in her case of course due to the attack)?
  27. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. IIRC, in 1992, Todd Eldredge didn't skate at Nats, but was named to the Oly team anyway, replacing Mark Mitchell. I also think Meno and Sand got named to an Oly team without skating at Nats, but I'm not sure.
  28. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Was it because of injury in their respective cases?
  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Re-posting from the Nagasu thread:
    No, because Zawadzki was coached by Christy Krall for the past 2 Nationals (bronze medals in 2012 & 2013) and only returned to Tom Zakrajsek this year.

    I always thought Nagasu skated so well at the Vancouver Olympics because she didn't go in as the national champ. Many fans thought Mirai Nagasu would be the "next great one" after the last Olympic season... 4 years is an eternity in ladies' skating so who knows what will happen.
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Hannah Miller has written a new blog about Sectionals and working with her choreographer, Daniil Barantsev, recently in Connecticut: http://figureskatersonline.com/hannahmiller/main/off-to-nationals/
  31. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    Except that doesn't make any sense in the context of the discussion we were having. The OP was referring to women who will be competing at U.S. Nationals and will be perhaps getting unfair boosts in their scores for various reasons, not those who will be seeking an injury bye -- such as Kwan did in 2006. The comment made no sense.

    O-
  32. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Mark Mitchell was on the committee that name Michelle on the team right?
  33. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    What I meant by the Michelle Kwan save was the possibility of USFG not going with the top 3 in the event of a major screw up or injury by the star. They used it in 2006 (not going by top 3 at nationals) because of Michelle who was injured and did not compete. They would only use the save on someone who is the star, and for this season that would be Ashley.

    I don't think they would use it if anyone else gets 4th. Like if Gracie gets 4th, I think they would go with the top 3. But they want Gracie to go, so they might fudge the numbers to get her to 3rd. Gracie has not accomplished much to justify her going over say Mirai if Mirai outskates her at nationals. indeed, None of the ladies -Mirai, Gao, etc- have done anything this season to justify their going to the Olympics over the 3rd place competitor if they place 4th.

    Except for Ashley, it would look illegitimate if they do not go with the top 3 at nationals. If there is some disaster and Ashley places 4th, I think they would use the save on her. Using the save is really designed to ensure that the star gets to go. Maybe it did not originate with Michelle, but no matter how Michelle placed or whether or Not she competed at nationals, she was definitely going to the Olympics. Not strictly going by top 3 helped her go to Torino and is designed to make sure a skater of her caliber does not miss the Olympics due to injury or a major and uncharacteristically bad screw up. In the past the save was only used for injury and USFS has yet to pick someone over another who just screwed up (though I think they might have done it at worlds with Kimmie- put her on worlds team instead of someone else but I am not sure the reason whether it was due to injury). They might only use it for merit in the case of a real star like Michelle - maybe Ashley would not even qualify. For instance, Rockne and McLaughlin were great in pairs, were on Olympic ads, etc but bombed nationals and they did not use the save on them. Ashley, however, is different bc of her intl success. They would probably use it for her, though maybe they would only use it on a once in a generation skater like Michelle when it comes down to Olympic spots.
  34. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Ashley will screw up so badly that she'd fall out of the top 3. The judges wouldn't let her...meaning even if she tanked they'd find a way to boost her where they could and hold others down to get her on the team. Point of the matter is Ashley is the best thing the US ladies has and there's no way she'll be left off of that team unless she's too injured to compete.

    The same, to an only slightly lesser extent, applies to Gracie. No Gracie hasn't skated much better than anyone else this season but going by her international reputation and scores, she's the clear #2 option. And don't forget she's been the USFSA's pet since she made the jump to seniors...they aren't going to leave her at home, not when they pushed so hard to get her to Sochi...right on down to getting Frank to take her on.

    So my thought is come hell or high water, Ashley and Gracie will be on the team and should be on the team. I don't think the judges would resort to using a bye...not when it's so freaking easy to manipulate the scores and do it that way.

    I say 3rd spot goes to whoever steps up and takes it.
  35. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I believe so. I read somewhere that he was one of the few who voted against giving her the injury bye.
  36. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    Ashley and Adam Rippon were announced on The Voice tonight...along w a bobsledder. I guess NBC is starting its promotions...
  37. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Of course he did :lol:
  38. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    There were two others who voted against Kwan as well -- as the vote to give Kwan a bye was 20-3, as I recall. Following Nationals, the 5-member panel who observed Kwan's monitoring session voted unanimously to allow her to take advantage of the bye.

    O-
  39. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Agnes Zawadzki and Angela Wang (as well as Max Aarion and Joshua Farris and their coaches) were featured in USFS' Google+ Hangout yesterday - here's the archived video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj50lRe4m-g
    Agnes is interviewed around the 25 min. mark and Angela around the 38 min. mark (after she did a SP run through minus the jumps).
  40. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Sylvia! I hope they do a few more of these Hangout features leading up to Sochi!
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