U.S. Ladies [#9]: Battle to/in Boston

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 12, 2013.

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  1. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Could be... I don't know. Same happened to Adelina though her's was more reasonable and understandable.
  2. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Samantha has been plugging away and putting in good performances lately, that have been improving over the course of the season and certainly is skating like one now (not sure what happened to Gao, but that free skate performance would most likely put her out of the top 10 at Nationals).

    (referring to TEB above)
  3. Flying Camel

    Flying Camel Member

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    Yes, poor Christinia. She is usually a good competitor. I am wondering if she has put too much pressure on herself to just concentrate on skating. Maybe she should have tried to go to school at least part time.

    Sam is coming on strong. She is making a name for herself. Maybe she will be on the Olympic team. She may even be second at nationals. Gracie isn't doing anything. But she and her coach need to review the scoring and find a way to score higher in the SP. The 56 score is too low. Also, she need to come up with a few transitions in her program.

    Ashley was good but she did not blow the competition away like Mao, Yuna or Kostner. She is getting closer. But I fear she will end up fourth or fifth at the Olympics.
  4. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Well, Kostner didn't exactly blow the competition away at Cup of China. :shuffle:
  5. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    That's good. Ashley still has room to improve. I don't want her to leave everything in the GP.
  6. bronwynsings

    bronwynsings Active Member

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    ^ And Ashley so far has finished higher in both of her GPs than Kostner has. Kostner still obviously has another event to do, but it's not the best case for her... And it's a very strong case for Ashley to be able to beat out very stiff competition in Adelina.

    Sammi Cesario is also making a fantastic case, and if she can show that she is consistent, then I think she could steal the third spot under Agnes and Christina from the way things are going.

    My heart is broken for Christina, though. I wanted her to get the third spot so badly and that didn't reassure me that she was ready... :cry:
  7. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    She has not yet peaked, that's for sure. And that's a good thing.
  8. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, it's still anyone's game for that 3rd spot. There's still 2 months till Nationals and a lot can change within that time. Does anyone not remember how Yuna skated during the fall of 2009 and still came back and gave the cleanest LP she's ever given at the Olympics? Same could happen here.

    It looks like Ashley has worked on her LP (artistically and technically, I'm still baffled by her underrotating the lutz in the LP) between SA and TEB, but still I hate the LP. It's growing on me a little more, but I wish there was more in it, especially for a program in the Olympic season.
  9. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Um, she didn't UR the lutz. She did get an edge call on it. She two footed the flip in the 3F/3T combo and she stepped out of the 3F. What are you baffled by now?
  10. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    You fear she will be fourth or fifth? Given how this season has played out and with the Olympics being in Russia, fourth or fifth for Ashley would be a triumph. She's a B medal contender, meaning she can medal if she's clean and others make errors. The judges' scores have made that clear.
  11. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Just because a jump doesn't get a < doesn't mean it wasn't underrotated. There have been numerous questionable calls on < and << marks in figure skating. The lutz was still short despite the fact that it didn't get a <. It was probably right on the quarter turn mark, and I don't think I've ever seen Ashley underrotate her lutzes even slightly.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  12. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Well that's Ashley not at her best. Ashley lost probably 4.5 points when she stepped out of the flip in the LP. Adelina pretty much skated lights out at TEB and didn't break 130. We'll see how Carolina skates at COR.
  13. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Looked rotated to me on replay, wasn't called by the tech controller. Do you really think anyone would take your word against theirs and what we've seen? Seriously?
  14. Maofan7

    Maofan7 pacem dare occasionem

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    Very impressive performance by Samantha Cesario at TEB. Here as an article on her from a few months ago.
  15. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to Ashley Wagner on her third career Grand Prix title! :cheer2: With 28 points she also qualifies for the GP Final for the third time.

    Samantha Cesario continues her string of stellar performances with new ISU Personal Best SP, FS and Total scores! :cheer: She is definitely in contention for an Olympic team spot.

    Courtney Hicks competes at the Ice Challenge beginning this week; Nagasu and Zawadzki will look for better results at Rostelecom Cup; and U.S. Sectionals begin. Lots of skating to follow! :)

    2013-14 U.S. Ladies

    Top International Scores (through 11/16/13)
    1. Ashley WAGNER, Trophee Eric Bompard (194.37)
    2. Gracie GOLD, Skate Canada (186.65)
    3. Karen CHEN, JGP Slovakia (179.08) - JR in U.S.
    4. Christina GAO, Skate Canada (173.69)
    5. Samantha CESARIO, Trophee Eric Bompard (172.70)
    6. Courtney HICKS, U.S. Classic (171.88)

    7. Polina EDMUNDS, JGP Mexico (171.21)
    8. Mirai NAGASU, Finlandia Trophy (164.51)
    9. Amber GLENN, JGP Czech Republic (164.18) - JR in U.S.
    10. Ashley CAIN, Nebelhorn Trophy (162.39)
    11. Angela WANG, JGP Czech Republic (155.87)
    12. Mariah BELL, JGP Mexico (153.17)

    13. Vanessa LAM, Finlandia Trophy (152.28)
    14. Agnes ZAWADZKI, U.S. Classic (151.27)
    15. Kiri BAGA, Coupe de Nice (150.48)
    16. Barbie LONG, JGP Slovakia (148.19)
    17. Tyler PIERCE, JGP Estonia (143.91) - JR in U.S.
    18. Yasmin SIRAJ, JGP Latvia (142.32)

    19. Rachael FLATT, Coupe de Nice (130.18)
    20. Hannah MILLER, JGP Estonia (128.20)
    21. Caroline ZHANG, Skate America (110.12)

    Upcoming events:
    • Ice Challenge: HICKS
    • Rostelecom Cup: NAGASU, ZAWADZKI
    • Golden Spin: TBA
    • JGP Final: CHEN, EDMUNDS, WANG (1st alternate)
    • GP Final: WAGNER
  16. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Samantha Cesario is my darkhorse pick for the Sochi team. I love her skating, she's working hard, and she totally deserves it.
  17. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Just watched Ashley's LP for the first time. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would given what I have read about it. I also like the dress. I'm wondering if someone who has seen her live this year, can you tell if she has improved her speed at all? I felt she was quite slow at worlds last year compared to many others. It is so hard to tell when just watching on video. Also, does anyone else think her forward cross overs, especially out of elements, look weak? It seems to me that that is an area ( actually both forward and backward) where she could use some work. They just don't look powerful. Her spins were fabulous and she has positions in both spins and jumps. It was also great to see her go for the 3/3! I know there were a few technical issues, but I do think this program will continue to grow and develop and should be fabulous by nationals.
  18. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I'm very happy w/ Ashley competing and winning at 85 - 90% caliber. I have a feeling that Ashley at 100% will manage over 200 pts., and I think that's what it will take to win a medal in Sochi
  19. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Actually I feel Ashley should work on her stroking and rink coverage to go into upper level. However, it takes time to improve the basics. So I wonder if she works on them after this season.
  20. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why you're taking this so personally and acting very defensive over this. The lutz wasn't worthy of a <. I'm not saying it was. You are missing my point entirely. My point is that it was still underrotated slightly (just shy of a quarter turn), and that's a little worrisome because Ashley got < marks on the lutz at JO and SA and is still underrotating it slightly now at TEB. If you look at Ashley's lutzes throughout her career, her lutzes have almost always been a full 3 rotations and never 2.75. We've seen what's happened to Mirai's loop all of sudden starting last season and now she is chronically underrotating them (and it used to be one her most reliable triples).
  21. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Ashley has nowhere close to Mirai's litany of issues, particularly the issues that occur in the space between one's ears. And I have faith that Arutunian (and Nicks) will smack any such underrotation nonsense out of Ashley over the next couple of months. Now getting her to 100% stop two-footing when under stress might be another kettle of fish entirely :D
  22. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    The showings of US ladies are a bit disappointing. 3 medals so far, and rather disappointing showing so far for Zhang, Agnes, Mirai and now Gao in Paris.
    Back when the Japanese ladies were the deepest pool of ladies, US ladies end up being behind them and Kim. Now they are behind the Russian ladies. Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that their ladies who aren't ready are pulled (or they withdrew), while US ladies, once assigned, keep their assignments no matter what.

    et: I originally mentioned 8 ladies who could place top 6 in the short program at nationals and didn't mention Cesario because of her sp potential. But if she could find a way to keep improing that sp to the point it can place top 6, she has a good shot. She has a good head on her shoulders and is pretty steady
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  23. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

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    Cesario's LP was great; wonderful accents, attitude, interpretation and highlights.. Her SP though seems a bit rough around the edges and needing more polish.. I'm sure Geldermann knows it and will make the necessary changes. The combo in the SP needs to be modified perhaps since the second loop keeps getting dinged. Has Sam ever gotten full credit for her loop-loop?
  24. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    True. It's just a little surprising that the two foots and underrotations have come under Artunian's tutelage (whereas they almost completely disappeared under Nicks). I guess she's being more strategically about peaking at the right time this season.
  25. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I think it may have more to do with the stress level. Ashley is now going for a 3/3 in both programs and she two footed the first half (flip) in the long at TEB. I think she just need a bit more practice time now that she has tried in competition a few times. She knows what it feels like live, she can now go back and work on it some more.
  26. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    If you're trying to say that all the US ladies are behind all the Russian ladies, I would disagree. Ashley w/ mistakes kept Sotnikova at bay this weekend, and the no. 1 Russian lady is Lipnitskaya who squeaky clean is only a few points ahead of Ashley w/ mistakes.

    Gracie w/ mistakes isn't far off either of them, either. Granted, she needs to get her head together but she's done this before.
  27. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    The first thought that occurred to me was the introduction of the 3/3 as well. I hope Ashley and her team sort this out. Mr. Nicks is still her coach, btw.
  28. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    They are behind thw Russians in terms of gp successes and depth; I am not talking about individuals

    I just think the team in general is underperforming, far below what they cando; that is all.
  29. Flying Camel

    Flying Camel Member

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    They sure have. What is the issue?Don't they practice these jumps everyday? Most of them can't even land a couple of triple jumps under pressure. It's not even worth sending most of them to the competition. They should just send in a video of the one good triple and stay home! USFSA need to do something starting next season.
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I will agree w/ you on this point - depth and underperforming in general. The phrasing in your initial post wasn't clear to me, but I see what you're saying now. It's like Ashley and to some extent, Gracie are carrying the weight of the USA. Russia has some wonderful talent to back up Lipnitskaya and now Sotnikova such as Radionova, Pogorilaya, and even Tukktymasheva and are delivering big scores. The US team backing up GG and AW are a little too undependable by virtue of being inconsistent (Gao, Nagasu, Zawadzki) or too 'green' (Cesario, Hicks) or MIA (Czisny). The 1st three just do not hold it together very well.
  31. bek

    bek Guest

    I don't think so. I don't think a lot of the US girls on the GP are all that great other than Wagner and Gold.

    In general I suspect if Adelina and Julia continue to skate well, their PCS will rise, and maybe even above Ashleys.

    Especially Sotnikova, I'm not convinced Ashley's the better skater. I think right now the Russians have way more depth and options. And those options are going to force their kids to get better.. If they want a prayer of leaving Russia...I suspect one of the issues with Mirai was she was anointed so quickly as the great hope that she skated a bit. In Russia, those girls have so much competition its due or die. The good competitors are going to come out.

    In someways I find the depth sad too. Sad that some of those young girls won't make it out of Russia.
  32. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Looking at their record, Adelina is likely to falter again, especially in a high pressure situation like say, the Olympics at home. Julia much less so. *knocks on wood*
  33. bek

    bek Guest

    Well obviously Adelina's more like to falter. However, I will say this Julia's jumps lasting long term always has me a bit nervous. They are tiny, tiny things. I suspect they are way easier to control but it might be harder if she gets taller or a little bigger and she has to jump higher.

    Adelina's huge jumps though have always made me less nervous in that regard.
  34. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Adelina rarely lands her huge jumps in a program. That doesn't make you nervous?
  35. bek

    bek Guest

    It does, but I'm concerned about Julia keeping/rotating hers long term.
  36. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Don't be before it happens.
  37. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Agnes, Mirai and Gao all medalled last year, and also they landed more jumps.
    It's as if half of the ladies on the GP don't want to go to Sochi or something. :(

    I didn't expect Cesario to medal on the GPs but at least she performs consistently and is a reliable competitor.
  38. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  39. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    At the beginning of the GP I really thought the ladies would be Wagner, Gold and Gao. But not so much anymore. Poor Christina had a melt down of epic proportions in Paris. What is up with her?
  40. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I am going by memory but I dont remember Mark Mitchell having had sr ladies place top three at nationals before. But nationals will be in Boston...
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