U.S. Ladies [#8] All the Pretty Warhorses

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanatic, Aug 2, 2013.

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  1. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    Carolina Zhang did very well on junior as well as did Rachel - it does not always translate into the Senior Circuit consistent, as I recall, some of the other Russian ladies who are making mistakes this season also did well on Junior Circuit. The levels of pressure on both- especially in an Olympic year - are completely different. Point is, we have not seen Anna compete under pressure on the Senior Circuit - we have seen Adelina and it seems that like most ladies the pressure does affect her performance.

    That said, I really like Anna, there is an interview with her in the other thread. Very humble and nice girl, I hope she stays consistent and grabs one of the Olympic spots. It does not seem like she is expecting it, and I hope the pressure from winning GP does not put pressure on her. It would be best for her probably if she goes in as the underdog.
     
  2. bek

    bek Guest

    That's thing. I'm not willing to say Nagasu is done because there are skaters who have gotten big results after 20, and Nagasu has all the talent in the world. I also don't know Mirai so maybe the issue isn't work ethic; however, I found Frank's words about lack of motivation and needing Evan to motivate Mirai to be frankly telling....

    Well I'm not talking about long term potential but right now. And she did just win her first GP Senior event... However I think one plus for Anna is she is pretty tall and seems to have already hips. Also her jumps have nice spring to them....
     
  3. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    I guess what I mean is if Mirai gets 3rd at nationals, would they give it to Agnes or Christina instead if they place 4th? Agnes probably has a coach that can better lobby for her. Is Mirai so out of favor that they will not want her on that Olympic team in favor of one of the favorites (Agnes) or a more consistent performer (Christina)? Mirai is the type of skater who you never know what she will do. She could come out and give the skate of her life at nationals. (Or completely bomb too though I think she knows if she does that, people who are willing to give her a chance will give up on her)
     
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Nah, only if Wagner or Gold is 4th. ;)
     
  5. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    I think Christina can be counted on more than Agnes. She made the GPF and she had decent skates this year. Christina may not be as strong an ambassador for the sport as some others - I think after the Olympics, she will give up skating and go back to Harvard and she will become something great in another field. I don't see her as being super involved in ice shows, etc. because she will be in school. Maybe she will try to pull a Hughes and come back again in 2018 but I think once she goes back to school full time it will be very difficult to continue competitive skating,
     
  6. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    I just saw Agnes performance. It is a shame but I think she is a skater who needs to build on past great skates for her confidence and I fear that her poor skate here will hurt her confidence and that it will ripple through the season. I think if she learned to put past skates behind her she could be great,

    I recall two years ago she was seriously thinking about leaving the sport. I think she just gives up when she she does poor, in a way I think she suffers from some of the same issues as Mirai with confidence, though I think Agnes issue is not one of work ethic as well. It seems like once she makes a mistake she just gives up and then the performance goes downhill from there.
     
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I think Agnes is truly a "headcase" as far as a competitor goes. I agree she gives up if she makes a mistake, and she doesnt have much self confidence in her herself for whatever reason. I have also heard she struggles with motivation and desire, so I wouldnt even be totally sure what her work ethic is like. Nagasu I think is different. I dont think she is a headcase but she often wants it too badly, and she works hard on the things she wants to work on but not enough on correcting her weaknesses (eg- UR) and fixing them completely despite having enough talent to do so if she focused on them enough, even if it would take accepting a period of aggravation and not so fun practices.

    One thing about Agnes is people say she is held up at Nationals, but in fact there is a good case she deserved to beat Czisny at the 2012 Nationals and go to Worlds over her. She didnt skate a good long program, but neither did Czisny, and Agnes's short program was miles superior. You could make a case for Zhang beating both, but Zhang has her weaknesses that can justify her 4th place too. That might have been huge for her confidence had she gone, and in hindsight it sure as heck would have probably been better for the U.S, even if Agnes didnt do well it would be preferable to Czisny's going that year (and it wouldnt be beyond the realm of possability she turned in a great SP and so-so LP to finish 9th in that years super weak field, regaining the U.S 3 spots too).
     
  8. b-man

    b-man Active Member

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    Don't know how Mirai's work ethics are now, or that she doesn't work hard, nor do I know Ashley's. They both certainly work hard at pratices before competitions. Those comments by Frank were from 4 years ago and don't necessarily mean anything today. Mirai does suffer from nerves, but I can't think of many US ladies who don't suffer from nerves, Wagner and Gold included. And by the way, Mirai hasn't suddenly lost ten pounds this year and is more fit, she just has a different and tighter fitting dress this year. She was just as fit last year.
     
  9. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    At the US Nats in 2012 when I saw her live she was neither fit nor prepared for the competition.
     
  10. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    How do you all know that Mirai has not been working hard?? Have you seen her practice, day in and day out? I'm guessing no. You don't get as far as she's gotten in skating on just talent, give her a break. I'm excited to see how she looks next week, regardless of how she does in the deep NHK ladies field.
     
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  11. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Mirai tends to place 3rd and 4th in her gps, sometimes a 5th. I guess that's where she'll end up next week.
    The thing is that Mirai really hasn't placed that poorly in gps, compared to say, Gao or Agnes; of course she isn't a great success either.
    It's nationals where she screws up. A good nation als may give her the rejuvenation she needs to succeed... I said may, of course.
     
  12. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    I'm really confused that many members have tagged Wagner as "an early season skater" who peaks early and drops off. Her past is incomparable to now, but regardless she used to always peak at Nationals which was her last event of the season mostly because she would have a fluke (or uncanny, or whatever we want to call it) bad short every year at Nats.

    In 2012 she improved from every competition to the next, and made her peak at worlds (or some might say 4CC which was just a couple weeks before worlds). So she peaked in the back half of the season and finished with her strongest events.

    Last year Wagner came out guns blazing and then had two rough competitions mid-season for her standards. We must remember that she was dealing with personal struggles (she said it in an interview, pretty sure it was TSL), the hip injury at the GPF, and food poisoning in a short span of time. She finished with two strong events at the end of the season with Worlds and WTT. Her Worlds and WTT freeskates were her best of the season other than the awful footwork fall at Worlds (that killed the entire program effect).

    So how is she a peak-early skater? I mean we all know she won back to back GP titles last season but she was against easier fields than she was against at say the GPF and especially worlds. Can't expect her to win gold at the worlds against comeback skaters such as Kostner and Kim...
     
  13. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I am not sure about this season but I've heard reports during previous seasons, including here telling of her poor work ethic. Combined with poor performances, I used Occam's Razor.
     
  14. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure it was as much "poor work ethic" as it was a shitstorm of things happening in her personal life (injuries and her mother's cancer, to name a few). Mirai seems committed to her on-and-off ice training, and seems to be working well with Amy Evidente.

    If she had a poor work ethic I think she would have retired after her dismal 2011-12 season. The fact that she's sticking it out and working on her weaknesses says otherwise.
     
  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Did you miss all the quotes from Frank and Mirai herself about her work ethic? It seems like you did. The fact that she is sticking around means nothing at all wrt her work ethic. There could be many other reasons why she is sticking around.
     
  16. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Yes and that was almost two years ago.
     
  17. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Yes blabber away because it sounds more like you have written a book on Mirai's career already. Bow down everyone to the expert that knows everything.
     
  18. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    We will see this weekend if it's still true or not.
     
  19. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Oh will you be in NHK too? Goodie.
     
  20. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    So the only way to find out is to see her in person? Or watching her on TV is not good enough? Who are you, her parent?

    Never mind, you sound like a 5 year old.
     
  21. icellist

    icellist Member

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    From all the years I've been following Mirai, the only quotes I heard of her less than stellar work ethic was during the 08-09 season and the 10-11 season. She was injured, a teenager, and the new (upset) US champion in the 08-09 season. I give her a pass that season. She entered the 10-11 season with a summer stress fracture. She didn't work hard leading up to nationals but rebounded to be top US lady at 4CC. Carroll said she seriously start training for nationals until two weeks prior, but she took her alternates position very seriously training 3Lz-3T and then the whole Tibiagate yada-yada. Little was heard 11-12 season. There was a documentary of Mirai in the 12-13 season before CoC that showed she was working very hard. So I don't understand where everyone is getting all these quotes about her bad work ethic these past few years. Her work ethic problem was only apparent her last season with Charlene Wong and she made a mistake before 2011 nationals.

    And my hometown is the same as Mirai's. Whenever I go back home, I usually go to her family's Japanese restaurant and she's hard at work there. From last year's documentary and quotes from her new coaches, it seems that Mirai is taking training very very seriously.

    I will give you the fact that her 11-12 season programs were s h i t t y a la Lori Nichols....
     
  22. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    2011-12 was really an exceptional season for Wagner and doesn't quite fit in with the rest of her career. Arguably she still peaked earlier than desired (4CC instead of Worlds), but it was still in the 2nd half of the season. But for all other years I can remember, her best OVERALL efforts have come during the GP. Her 2012 effort at Worlds was weaker than at Natls/4CC, and although her 2013 Worlds effort was better than Nationals, it was still not quite as good as her SA skate.

    What Wagner needs to do now is get her spin levels up. because even the 3-3 isn't enough if she wants to compete against the likes of Asada (as she found out at SA), Kim et al. But if she does that, will she lose her jumps? Can she withstand the pressure of an Olympic season? The one time Wagner faced immense pressure (2013 Nationals), she faltered*. This is the question of how high the ceiling truly is for her...



    *Having said that, she is probably the most mentally tough out of the US ladies. And she still held it together under pressure at 2013 Worlds when everyone wanted 3 spots back and Gold had already done her part...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  23. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure it's true that 2013 Nationals was the "one time Wagner faced immense pressure ... (and) faltered." I have watched her for years since she was still training on the east coast. Believe you me Wagner is handling pressure massively better than she did for years. For years she would go to Nationals, armed with 3-3, and bomb the short program, skate wonderfully in the long, and barely miss the podium. I think this is perhaps as good as she is ever able to skate. There is always going to be pressure and everyone feels it; nearly all skaters, barring a selected few, can laid down no more than 70% of their full abilities in a competition as crucial as US Nationals (because it's the only "qualifier") and Worlds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  24. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Absolutely, Ashley needs to increase her spin levels, everyone knows that. But why would she lose her jumps?
    She faltered? She didn't have the best performance in the free but the latest I heard, she had successfully defended her title and got 1st. That's an interesting definition of faltering.

    Back to Mirai, I just watched her Finlandia Trophy performances and looked at the protocols. The very same issues that plagued her for the last few seasons are still there, namely the UR.
     
  25. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    She probably should have been placed even lower with that mistake-riddled program..........
     
  26. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I about to say the same exact thing.
     
  27. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Most of the URs were harsh and unwarranted. The only thing in her SP that should have gotten an < was the triple toe. That's it.
     
  28. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I was also going to say this too. Why are people bringing things up that were said ages ago and haven't been brought up by her coaches in two years? Frank didn't say a word about her work ethic the entire 2011-2012 season.
     
  29. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Mostly people are saying this, or at least I am saying that I have doubts about Mirai even this season because she is not improving. Her URs were obvious to the naked eye in real time. She cannot hope to make the podium at Nats, let alone at Olys with that problem still not resolved.
     
  30. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Hey All, Did you hear that Mirai has poor work ethic?

    One more thing. She also has poor work ethic.
     
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