U.S. Ladies [#8] All the Pretty Warhorses

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanatic, Aug 2, 2013.

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  1. asdf334

    asdf334 Member

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    I'm going to give it time, but upon an initial viewing I felt the same way.
     
  2. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Lol and poor Irinia, she's still stuck in the old days! There's no more spiral sequence requirement anymore, Irina! And the spiral must come after the step sequence!
     
  3. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I think part of the problem for Wagner is that she lacks presence and strength in this program. Last year, when she took the ice, she commanded one's attention with her confidence. But here, she's just (mostly) sort of smiling, pretty princess, skating around (although the program DOES have moments that lend themselves to "power" skating). She's just sort of "there" on the ice, not making much of an impression on me as a viewer.

    It is still early in the season. She needs to get the jumps down, get comfortable with the 3-3, and then the rest should come naturally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
  4. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    ^ Hopefully... On the other hand, I am very happy with Mirai. Her SP at Finlandia was great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NGb5JW9wh8&noredirect=1

    I wonder what's with the low score though. I don't think it was worth only a 54. The 3-3 probably got a < and her landing on the loop was off, but everything else was great. The spins are almost up to the level they were in 2010! And I'm glad they got rid of that horrible combo spin she had before. This new one is so much better.
     
  5. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Mirai wasn't credited with any triples, that's why her TES was so low. Her PCS was basically in a tie for 3rd with Liza.

    The quality of the youtube vides I've seen of the top 6 SPs there show quite a few questionable jumps, rotation wise, but she's the only one they take a microscope to :(

    I hope she comes out swinging. Everything else looks fabulous!
     
  6. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    I agree, she looked great. I don't get all the calls and only on her. lol Yes the toe loop for sure was a downgrade but the rest... I think she took the score in stride and will work from it and have a strong LP regardless if she get more phantom under-rotation calls.
     
  7. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    Amber Glenn has improved a ton. Watching her skating at nationals last year, all I could think about was that she was incredibly sloppy, even with some nice jumps. She's clearly worked very hard, and she did a great job today! :cheer2:
     
  8. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Well on first watch I thought the music hurt my ears and I thought the program built to nothing. After many views, I like all the music until the end (I don't like the music choices after the last triple flip), and I love the music going into the first loop and lutz. I still think that the program doesn't build to anything, however, and that is a problem. I think it will get much better with more mileage, but I wish the end of the program was more fulfilling. I also REALLY wish Ashley would do a beautiful arabesque spiral instead of that generic and unappealing grab in the choreo sequence, she also needs to skate faster into it! We all know Ashley has a wonderful spiral, but she's not making good use of it unfortunately.

    All in all, I don't love the LP, but I like a lot of what she's trying to do, and I don't dislike it. The program has a ton of choreography and she's mostly rising to the occasion imo, good for her!
     
  9. Happy123

    Happy123 New Member

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    I think Prokofiev takes some getting used to. I love that Ashley is portraying a more dramatic version of R&J!
     
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    She's famous for touching down w/ the toe of her landing foot pointed and she kind of 'swirls' out of the landing w/ the rest of her blade. I hope that description works and I'm describing what I see in my head! Unfortunately, the judges know exactly what to look for and hone right in on it. I tried to get a look at her landings of the 3 triples in slo-mo, but couldn't really get a good view of her landing foot. Now, I only had time to watch her and Vanessa Lam, so I didn't see the other gals but if indeed others are getting the benefit of the doubt and she's getting nailed, that's a little unfair.

    I hold out hope because something similar was happening to her last season; she was UR'ing quite a bit up thru CoC last year, but by NHK, she was getting full credit for 3t-3t, and she had been doing a nice 2x-3t all along. You can tell Mirai is in really good shape (Amy must be really drilling her w/ off-ice training). She looks relatively more involved in her programs at any time I've seen her since the '10- ' 11 season, and UR's aside, she's in command of the performance. So, after all that, when I see that 54.01 pop up, I feel really bad for her! I hope she doesn't let it get to her, that it pisses her off, and she attacks even more!
     
  11. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Olympic, I know exactly what you mean with Mirai's landings, because I (not a judge) notice it. I noticed it yesterday on the 3Lo, and the 3T was also UR. But I didn't see it on the 3F :(
     
  12. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Re: benefit of doubt to the other skaters.
    I can't speak for every skater, but with Lipnitskaya she buried her flip in the corner; from the camera angle it's impossible to know whether she ured or not. Very smart.
     
  13. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Well, Finlandia concluded. I watched the final flight live.

    Mirai hit a nice early season LP: Caught that the 2x-3t was <, she 2-footed a 3f, and got the perfunctory edge call on the 3z but looked like she nailed everything else (didn't notice any weird blade wobbles or anything else that would give away a UR). So, 110 pts.? WTF. Really want to see the protocols. How are Lipnitskaya's eked-out jumps and juniorish choreography worth 15 points more?

    ETA - despite it all, I think Mirai has a shot at the US team; Gracie, Christina and Agnes aren't exactly hitting it out of the park right now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Finlandia Ladies FS protocols: http://www.figureskatingresults.fi/results/1314/FT2013/FT2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

    ETA:
    Senior B total scores so far this season:
    171.88 Courtney Hicks USA (SLC 1st)
    164.68 Gracie Gold USA (SLC 2nd)
    164.51 Mirai Nagasu USA (Finlandia 4th)
    162.39 Ashley Cain USA (Nebelhorn 3rd) - counts as ISU SB
    157.29 Samantha Cesario (SLC 3rd)
    152.28 Vanessa Lam (Finlandia 5th)
    152.84 Christina Gao (Nepela 3rd)
    151.27 Agnes Zawadzki (SLC 4th)

    Zawadzki is featured in the latest "Inside Edge" blog: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/10/04/62472362/the-inside-edge-zawadzki-faces-media-trains-hard

    ISU Season Bests Total Scores to date:
    4 179.08 Karen CHEN USA ISU JGP Kosice 2013 14.09.2013 (JR in U.S.)
    5 171.21 Polina EDMUNDS USA ISU JGP Mexico Cup 2013 07.09.2013
    8 164.18 Amber GLENN USA ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 05.10.2013 (JR in U.S.)
    10 162.39 Ashley CAIN USA Nebelhorn Trophy 2013 27.09.2013
    13 155.87 Angela WANG USA ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 05.10.2013
    15 153.17 Mariah BELL USA ISU JGP Mexico Cup 2013 07.09.2013
    18 148.19 Barbie LONG USA ISU JGP Kosice 2013 14.09.2013
    29 142.32 Yasmin SIRAJ USA ISU JGP Riga Cup 2013 30.08.2013
    (Hannah Miller and Tyler Pierce are scheduled for JGP Estonia next week.)

    FS scores of 100+ this season:
    119.77 Ashley Wagner (Japan Open, 3rd)
    117.08 Courtney Hicks (SLC)
    114.62 Karen Chen (JGP SVK)
    113.43 Polina Edmunds (JGP MEX)
    110.50 Mirai Nagasu (Finlandia)
    109.38 Samantha Cesario (SLC)
    107.34 Amber Glenn (JGP CZE)
    106.19 Gracie Gold (SLC)
    104.52 Ashley Cain (Nebelhorn)
    103.26 Mariah Bell (JGP MEX)
    100.70 Christina Gao (Nepela)
    100.63 Barbie Long (JGP SVK)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  15. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, interestingly, no edge call for Mirai on the 3z, but she got dinged with UR's on half her jumps. Downgrade on the flip? Wow
     
  16. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Well here's the LP link of Mirai at Finlandia... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO-aZ0MMc8E

    Her triple toe and second triple flip loop << so I think it's right. But overall, it appears that she and her team are working very hard to bring up her to the level she was once at. Her jumps look bigger than they did in the past and that first flip in the beginning had no underrotation whatsoever. Unfortunately, her facial expressions (or lack thereof) are almost non-existent in the program. She brought in so much more character and life after the second triple loop and I wish she would bring that into the entire performance.
     
  17. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Of all the US ladies we've seen who are in contention for the 3rd spot (presuming Ashley and Gracie take spots 1 & 2), Mirai has the best programs BY FAR. She's clearly putting in loads of work. If the USFSA knew what was good for it, they would start supporting her. Something must be going on behind the scenes for her jumps to get so much more scrutiny than everyone else's. I'm not saying she should get credit for jumps that aren't rotated, it's that no one's jumps would fare well under this kind of scrutiny. If everyone's jumps were reviewed as frequently as hers, with the expectation that they will be <, we'd see a lot more <. Her 3z in the Finlandia LP is a perfect example.
     
  18. icellist

    icellist Member

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    I love the work her team has put rearranging her elements after her step sequence. Her lutz edge looked good to me. The only notable underrotations to me were the 3T and second 3F. The 3Lz and 2T I would've given the benefit of the doubt. She is just under a lot of scrutiny now... I felt like Mirai gave a lot of emotion/expression in her step sequence and after her solo 3L. Her programs are the most polished of the senior ladies. I would pick Mirai over Agnes and Christina right now, perhaps Gracie depending on how much Frank can salvage out of that horrendous program.

    ETA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHZLzcy74w8&feature=player_detailpage#t=262
    Love that she's looking at the camera during the Besti squat
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  19. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I think we are going to see some upsets in the Ladies event at Nationals. Could be one of the younger kids has the skate of her life and makes the Olympic team.
     
  20. Flying Camel

    Flying Camel Member

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    And they won't even have to skate that great. Most of the senior ladies are too scared to jump.
     
  21. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Not impossible, not gonna rule that out...but at the same time, I don't think the pool of contenders is as large as a lot of fans seem to think.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  22. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    The pool of Sochi contenders are definitely not as large as many think imo. There's really 5 girls vying for the 3 spots, and no matter what Ashley is a lock based on everything she's put out the past 2 seasons and thus far. Gracie could be a lock too depending what she puts out this season. Apart from that we have Mirai, Christina, Agnes who have real shots at the spots. It's definitely going to be the well known women who skate like Senior ladies that make it to Sochi.

    If someone like Hicks, Cesario, or Cain (the next best chances) step up to the podium at Nationals, I would not be surprised if USFSA didn't send them and promoted one of the 5 above who had a sub-par skate.

    And forget about all the Junior girls (e.g. Polina, Karen), their JGP scores are irrelevant and none will be buying a ticket to Sochi. It is a LADIES event, and they don't look (skate) the part.

    That's the way I see it in my honest opinion. Feel free to agree, or strongly disagree ;)
     
  23. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    See, I think there are probably 5-6 vying for the final spot. I think the first two are decided.
     
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Cain in no way has a better chance than Edmunds or Czisny. IMO there are 5 groups:

    1.) Locks/Near Locks

    Wagner
    Gold

    2.) Main contenders for the 3rd Spot

    Zawadzki
    Gao
    Hicks

    3.) Secondary contenders for the 3rd spot

    Nagasu
    Cesario


    4.) Dark Horses for the 3rd spot

    Czisny
    Edmunds

    5.) Highly unlikely to make the Olympic team but could be given consideration if the stars align perfectly at Nationals

    Wang
    Miller
    Zhang
    Lam
    Flatt
    Cain
     
  25. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    How do you know how much scrutiny Mirai is under compared to other skaters? Mirai has had under rotation issues her entire career, so off course her jumps are going to be reviewed. It is no different from anyone else who consistently under rotates. Furthermore, the tech can only replay jumps from the camera on the judges stand. They cannot look at any other views. Often what we see are views from other cameras so it it difficult to know what the techs are seeing.
     
  26. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    ^ Well given the fact that her jumps have been the best they've pretty much ever been, I can agree with Coco. Mirai has had numerous other performances with triples that were way more questionable that the ones she did at Finlandia and they were NOT given a <.
     
  27. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    See, here's my list:

    Wagner
    Gold
    (your top 2 contenders)


    Zawadzki
    Gao
    (your 2 secondary contenders)


    Hicks
    Nagasu*
    (the 2 that could surprise)


    THAT'S IT. Everyone else - either past peak or not ready (not at top contender level).

    *Even Nagasu is sort of straddling that "MIGHT be/MIGHT not be" line depending on whether she can ditch those URs or not...if she can't, she doesn't have any more of a prayer than the rest.
     
  28. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, all I have to go on is how long it takes scores to come up. I just think she is subject to more scrutiny than others to the point that it's getting unfair. Lots of skaters are getting the benefit of the doubt, while she is being examined under a magnifying glass. If everyone was examined to the degree she's being looked at, we'd see a lot more URs.
     
  29. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I think a stronger jumper who is under less pressure (e.g. Edmunds) can come in and spoil the party. What would USFS do then, I wonder?

    Just to add: Wang seems to have a pretty good short going. Girl with good short, so-so long has been known to place well at US nationals.

    Cesario is in trouble though. That 3 loop/3 loop is a huge risk and without that she won't get to top 6 in the short
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  30. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    If Alissa shows up healthy and skates well, I think she has a shot. Because I think the US judges will reward her for all her years, and for not having gone before.
     
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