Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanatic, Aug 2, 2013.
True, the PR machine was working overtime...................
I would say finishing in the silver medal position at your first Senior U.S. Nationals and winning the free skate in a deep and talented, experienced field and then capping it off with a solid sixth place finish at your first Senior World Championships beating some very big talents, including very talented Russian and Canadian skaters is pretty impressive. Not to mention, beating the US Champion in the free at Worlds and FINALLY securing 3 US ladies spots in time for the Olympics in combination with the US Champion. Oh and delivering good performances at Team Trophy to assist a Gold Medal win for the U.S. Gracie very much lived up to my expectations in her very first year as a Senior ladies competitor.
"Her Grace" is 100% correct. If anything, inconvenient occurrences conspired to help Gold make her name. Sure, she put a video of her jumps up on YouTube, but that was more than counterbalanced by the International Committee denying her JGP assignments, because she had not competed at nationals the prior season. This despite her consistently defeating the competition in summer events and posting by far the highest scores. Imagine for a moment that Russia had a junior lady consistently landing clean triple-triples and defeating other junior ladies in non-qualifying events -- would she be held back because she didn't have a good nationals six months' prior, while those other juniors were put on the JGP? It was this disparity that led to the clamor to 1. finally assign her a JGP at the end of the series and 2. built up anticipation for 2012 nationals.
Gracie is hardly the first skater the USFS has promoted as "the next big thing" as a junior. Zawadski, Nagasu and Zhang quickly come to mind as other recent examples.
Gold did great to finish sixth at Worlds. But she was held up at Nationals especially in the SP. She and Wagner were going to Worlds no matter what anyone else did imo. I wasn't impressed with her at Nationals at all.
ITA, those two isolated events/skates/outcomes were very impressive for a first-year senior lady. I was not denying that Gracie has been impressive the past couple seasons, absolutely she has. I was saying she was not CONSISTENT last season, which is also true. Salt Lake City - not so great, Skate Canada - meltdown, Cup of Russia - pretty good and impressive silver medal, Nationals - meltdown of a SP, incredible FS, impressive silver overall, 4CC - another meltdown, Worlds - pretty good showing and impressive score/6th place finish, WTT - very good showing and scores (esp. FS), helped her team to the win. And now this season she started on a low note at Salt Lake City.
When Gracie has been good, she has been quite good, my point was, last season, for as many times we saw her skate really well, we saw her skate quite poorly a comparable number of times. Inconsistency is not the same as just failing to live up to her hype, the issue is sometimes she DOES and it's like WOW, but then usually, she'll skate again and it won't go well and the result is frustrating/confusing.
And look how they have all turned out so far....
Anyways, my point being, Edmunds could have been sent to a JGP last season, could have been sent to JW after winning Nationals, and maybe would have been able to win silver at JW like Gracie did (at least bronze probably), and could have been sent to WTT like Gracie was in 2012. But she wasn't. And she had competed at Nationals the season before and was skating well over the summer. Had she been given those opportunities and did well like Gracie did when she was given those opportunities, Edmunds could be USFS' little darling right now, too. There was definitely some great opportunities being thrown Gracie's way in 2011-2012, and that season, she made the most of them and that was a huge factor in her rise to stardom. But there are a lot of other talented ladies that have not been given those kinds of opportunities.
You consider a 10th place finish in the short program being "held up"?
Polina Edmunds' competition performances in the summer of 2012 were not as consistent as Gold's the year before -- they have different strengths and weaknesses and their situations are not really comparable, IMO. In any case, I think Edmunds' development is right on track and I hope she skates well in Belarus next week and makes the JGP Final.
She shouldn't have received full credit for the 3t in her combination. Look at the blade when it touches down, it's 180 degrees short.
Considering her performance yes. Keep in mind this is a skater (atleast based if scoring was accurate) who relies completely on doing her jumps well.
At COR last year, Gold managed to get level four spins and level three step sequence both in the short and long program. At Skate Canada which she bombed, she managed level four spins and level three step in the long, and two spins out of three were level four in the short. And she got a 52 even with that short
Gracie needs to get a handle on her nerves and learn how to compete or she is going to go the way of Mira and Alissa. A potentially great skater who almost always comes up short.
Me too!!! Go Polina!!!
and would that be the end of the world? Let's put things in perspective.
Well I'm interested in knowing what's going on with Ashley Wagner. I thought she said she was going to try her triple/ triple at some of the summer competitions. Did I miss her? I don't see her name at any competitions I followed.
I know she had to find a new coach, but she should have found time to do a short program somewhere. It's almost time for Skate America.
In this article/interview from July, Wagner indicated she was not planning to do a summer competition due to her busy schedule: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130716&content_id=53917348&vkey=ice_news
My hearsay info is that Wagner landed a 3F+3T in her SP simulation at Champs Camp in late August.
Count me in as one whom is very interested to see what Ashley's been up to! She, more than any other American female skater, is whom I'm most interested in, as I think she has it all (& always has) ~ technical combined with artistry as well as jumps, combos, spins, and innovativeness (love her Tano doubles). Also it doesn't hurt that she's very attractive & photogenic, which will bring in more viewers and sponsors, et al. Jmho.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ASHLEY!!!! (ps: it's a joy to see that she's finally come into her own these past few years; i always said she should've won it all when she first debuted on the senior circuit back in '08)
Any other hearsay you can share about the other ladies?
Ashley said last season that she was planning on cutting back on the appearances this season? She wore herself out. Now she is making appearances at the cost of competition experience. I hope this doesn't backfire.
Keep in mind that if that had happened, Wagner might very well be in a different position than she is now. She made the changes she did BECAUSE the status quo failed her.
I like her determination and candor. But I wish she'd stop trying too hard...just stay true to her style, perform the necessary tricks (3-3) and let the chips fall. In her defense though - she is one of many who do this, and apparently it is working...
P.S. This is a criticism I now have of Gold, too...come on, there's more than one type of successful skater out there!
^^I'm not sure which changes you're talking about.
To be honest, the changes Ashley made to her skater were not that drastic. The main change in Ashley after going to Nicks was that she seemed much more relaxed and calm when she skated. If you watch her programs before Nicks, Ashley always looked a little too excited/anxious when she was on the ice. There was this frantic energy to everything she did and it usually got away from her and she'd make mistakes that would keep her away from the top. Back then she still had nice programs with lovely choreography...she just wasn't presenting herself as well. The confidence and security wasn't there like it is now.
Ashley's style hasn't really changed over the years. Again, look back at her past programs. The music she picks fits her personality on the ice. It's not a situation like with Gracie where people are trying to turn her into an artistic or elegant skater when she's neither of those things...
On their video blog a couple months David of TSL sort of called Ashley out because she was doing show after show first in Canada on the CSOI then Yuna's show and was scheduled to go to Japan for shows in late July. He was wondering when she was going to start working on those triples triples that she kept saying she was going to do this season since it seemed like she was spending more time doing shows then training. Not sure if it was a coincidence but a few days later Ashley cancelled her trip to Japan saying she needed to start working on her programs.
I would hope that Ashley is listening to her coaches first and foremost. She tweeted this photo today:
I really doubt Ashley cares about TSL or that host. More likely she was feeling it was too much herself.
ITA. What concerns me about a lot of travel and shows (and I'm not referring to Ashley specifically here,) is that it must be very difficult to make sure one is eating properly and getting enough sleep. So not only is the skater losing training time, he or she could also be building up a sleep debt and putting on weight. It must be a really tough call when the money brought in from shows is needed to fund training.
Still though, Edmunds scored 170+ at a summer competition in 2012, which was higher than anything Gracie put up in the summer of 2011. And we saw how Edmunds was scored on the JGP a few weeks ago, 113+ for a FS which wasn't close to her best. Her performance at 2013 Nationals was great, it could have very feasibly scored 118 like Gracie's FS did the year before if she had been given credit for her triples which were borderline and at the mercy of the caller, but had she put up a huge score, it would have looked bad for USFS to not send her to JW, which she probably deserved to go to (Yasmin's jumps weren't any more rotated and Polina had stronger programs overall) and probably could have medalled at. She wasn't given the opportunity, USFS already had Gracie as their new star and combined with Wagner and then Gao's new success, and all the other girls in the mix for the Olympic team, they probably didn't want to promote another skater heading into 2014. Maybe that was part of the reason neither Wang or Miller was sent to JW, they likely could have medaled, very possibly silver or even gold given Radionova's SP, and then if they did that in a convincing fashion, it would throw another contender into the mix. Meanwhile Hicks and Siraj didn't have as strong results internationally and were less likely to medal and shake things up regarding Olympic spots in the coming season...
Edmunds didn't get to go to junior world because she didn't have a qualifying score to go.
Whether she deserved to go I don't know but she should have gotten an opportunity to get a qualifying score
eta: I feel bad for Wang who lost out of an opportunity to go to junior world 2 years in a row.
First time she placed high enough but the spot went to the person who placed behind her (but went to jgpf), but the year Wang went to jgpf, the spot went to the person who placed higher.
You certainly have a lot of conspiracy theories. How about we let Polina develop at her own rate?
I think Polina along with the rest of the newbies are being held back somewhat but not to their detriment. IMO I think it's fine that Polina didn't go to JW last season. This season she's doing well and is set to have a full run on the JGP which will help her when she finally does make the jump to the senior level.
Sometimes it's good not to be pushed to the forefront right away. I honestly think Gracie may have benefited from full year of JGP competition. It'd have given her the opportunity to learn to compete without being 100% in the limelight. Instead she had one JGP, went to JW and was thrown onto the senior level the next season. I think she lost a lot of development time b/c there was this mad rush to get her to the senior level as soon as she was eligible.
Skaters like Polina, Karen and even Angela are lucky to have the time to develop at their own rate. Let them learn to compete, gain the experience, refine their skating, and then come to the senior level. Those girls are being primed for the post-Sochi era of US ladies; for that reason, there's no point in rushing. In the end I think it will work out better for them.
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