Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Feb 10, 2013.
What is "IINM"?
If I'm not mistaken
Gold has done a 3-3-3 in practice. That's as, if not more, spectacular than a 3A.
Apparently Rochette landed 3A's and quad toes quite consistently in practice. I say this only to point out that lots of skaters do lots of stuff in practice that they never do in competition. It is only with the advent of YouTube that we now get a glimpse - which is very cool, but I highly doubt we will ever see Gracie attempt a 3/3/3 in competition. That said, we might see a 3A attempt post Sochi.
Life's funny, when you come to think of it.
Meissner landed 7 triples, including two 3-3 combos (3F+3T & 3Lz+3T) in her 2006 Worlds FS: http://youtube.com/watch?v=A1VaoEWyBeQ (FS protocols link isn't working for me so I can't confirm)
ETA: I was replying to the original part of Vagabond's post that said Meissner didn't have a 3Lz+3T like Gold has.
Not to be a snot, but with current judging standards, it is correct to say Meissner didn't have a 3z3t.
I don't think it helped Kimmie in the long-run that they ratified her triple-triples at 2006 Worlds. Still love that moment for her though.
I'm not sure how it hurt her?
Kimmie went as far as injury, puberty and life allowed her and IMO it had nothing to do with whether her 3/3 was ratified or not. She was measured by the same yard stick as everyone else that year and she came out on top. World Champion is certainly nothing to sneeze at.
How so? I personally am glad that she took her shot before her body changed and she could no longer be a factor.
Sorry I didn't make myself very clear. I was thinking maybe she would have addressed her technique issues sooner if they didn't give her credit. Then again I'm sure some of that might have been really hard to change. I was and am a huge fan of Kimmie's, and I was thrilled when she won Worlds. I certainly wasn't sneezing at her accomplishments.
Thanks for clarifying.
My other point was Kimmie was a steady and reliable competitor before her body began changing. Gracie seems to have matured physically but mentally I'm not sure if she's as steady as Kimmie.
Kimmie won Worlds on her first trip ... I actually believe there's an outside shot Gracie can as well if she pulls it all together (a lot of things would have to fall into place ... or should I say a lot of falls would have to happen for her to place).
Really!?!?! Is there any evidence/posters who talked about Joannie's quad or 3A?
If there were, wouldn't we have seen the YouTube clips by now? (I think that was mag's point and I vaguely remember reading references to Rochette's prowess in practices in the past.)
Fair point, as Meissner was more consistent as a Novice (2003 U.S. champ) vs. Gold (2010 U.S. pewter medalist after a SP with mistakes).
If Kim and Asada were absent I would agree, but...
BTW, Kostner just hit it out of the park in the SP at The Challenge Cup in the Netherlands today:
72.81 - Nailed 3l, 3t-3t, 2x and all level 4 spins except the layback.
Thinking Worlds will be Yu Na, Mao and Carolina gunning for medals after the SP, with Ashley chasing them in 4th or possibly 5th (depends on Sotnikova). Not necessarily a bad thing for Ashley, but ...
If Wagner got a 3-3 she could hit 70 as well. Remember she was getting 67 for her SP as is.
I do question whether Wagner will get those kind of marks though if the field is skating well in London. I could easily see her PCS dropping a wee bit to keep her in a safe and steady 5th place or so. I just have the feeling that the judges have her marked as a 4-8th skater at this point and those kind of things do inform how PCS's can be marked.
^^ Yeah, but however, don't you think had AshleyW continued with her early season brilliance and not had the rough patch at GPF (a couple of fluke falls) and at U.S. Nats (loss of training time due to hip pointer and food poisoning combined with nerves, resulting in a couple of fluke falls), that she might be heading into Worlds being considered more of a threat for the podium? Also, especially had she worked up to landing a clean 3/3 at a late season comp prior to Worlds? OTOH, maybe it's a good thing if Ash is right now being considered more of an underdog.
Oh, the constantly rising, receding, rumbling and fluctuating tides of figure skating. Debate and speculation will never cease, and I guess that's as it should be.
BTW, I was just looking at the recent performance of another Ashley; Cain to be exact. She really is so lovely to watch on the ice. Too bad there doesn't seem to be a tall partner around so she might continue to pursue pairs. AshleyC had such a gorgeous lp skate going at the recent U.S. Nats, but she suffered a couple of falls which kept her down in the standings. Since her mother is a former Canadian ice dancer, and her Dad hails from Australia, I wonder if AshleyC might at all be considering the possibility of making an attempt to skate for either Canada or Australia in singles. It might give her more of an opportunity to compete at Worlds, especially in light of the packed standings and limited spots available in the U.S. ladies ranks at the moment.
Re Carolina Kostner, thanks for the info, olympic. I was looking at Caro's Euros lp yesterday. I'm impressed by the way she's improved her technique and consistency on her jumps. Most likely, partly as a result of winning Worlds and having such a great season last year, her confidence and maturity are very palpable right now. I wonder why Caro was briefly considering retirement? Hunger is definitely necessary to go the long haul for Sochi.
However much I admire Yu Na, Caro, and Mao, I kinda wish to see some unexpected results at Worlds.
Interesting you throw Sotnikova into the mix but not Tuktamysheva? The SP hasn't been Liza's strength this season, but as a whole, she's done better than Adelina overall. I know Adelina beat her by a few points at Europeans but Tuk has had the better season and her FS scores have been consistently high.
I think it's b/c the only area Liza can beat out people is on jumps. The rest of her skating is good but not at the level needed to challenge for the top. She's getting better and has improved since last season but in terms of someone who could challenge the top, this year, it's Adelina. I think Liza's confidence is much better and Adelina's appears to be on the upswing since nationals so we'll have to see how those two handle their first worlds.
As for Ashley, I don't doubt that if she adds the content to her programs she'll be in the medal hunt. With a 3-3 she'll give herself a much better shot at competing with the top names. Despite what she said, she needs it. Mao has the 3A planned plus two other triples; Yu-Na, Carolina, Akiko, Adelina, Liza, Kaetlyn, Zijun, Gracie and probably a few more all have some kind of 3-3 planned. Ashley was able to skate by with her 3f-2t at nationals without any problems but there's very little chance of her making that final flight if she doesn't at least attempt a 3-3. Take the -GOE from the 2-foot landing but put that combo in there. It's a necessity at this point.
^^ You might be right re strategy needed for AshleyW. Will be interesting to see what approach she takes. I think AshleyW definitely has two highly competitive programs and unique all-around spunk and polished packaging, which enhances a skater's image. At this point, she also needs confident, clean, extra added difficult-content-filled programs too. As usual, skate position will likely play into her coaching team's strategy.
In regard to Sotnikova, she's extremely talented artistically and technically, but I haven't seen anything yet this season indicating that she's overcome her nerves during big international competitions. Liza has a determined mindset and she's a battler, but honestly, I am not in love with her skating.
Adelina had a very strong SP at nationals and did decently in the LP. But she had her best performance of the season at Europeans. That was her first major senior international event and she did wonderfully. That's not to say her consistency woes are of the past, just that over the course of her last two competitions she's shown improvement.
Liza's jumps are amazing but her overall skating isn't something the judges typically look for. That's not to say she won't do well...just that if both Liza and Adelina skate well, Adelina usually comes out on top and I can't say I disagree with that.
^^ I'll take your word that's statistically the case, since I don't closely follow either of them. But just from what I've seen in the early course of this season, it seemed like Liza tended to prevail a bit more re pulling out clean programs. I do agree that Sotnikova has more edge re potentially great artistry.
I'm really not sure what judges typically look for, other than technical consistency, since IJS has kind of limited and therefore further challenged artistic growth, IMHO. It will definitely be interesting to see how all the ladies prevail this season at Worlds.
I hope so. As long as she hits the 3-3 cleanly and gets her levels on the spins and FW. I think Ashley's biggest challenge is to NOT get ahead of herself: Take each element as it comes. If she can do that, she might medal
If Ashley skates a clean SP w/ a 3-2, it's still possible for her to be around 5th w/ that content (as long as she gets her levels), isn't it? Her SP got 66 pts. at the GPF.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the only people ahead of her in the SP this season score-wise are 1. Yu Na (71 pts.), 2. Mao (74 pts.) 3. Carolina (72 pts.), and 4. Adelina (67 pts.). Akiko has scored 65 pts. x2, and that despite a 3-3 and skating lights out in her home country, probably because she is the #2 JPN lady. Kiira scored in the mid-60s at Finlandia, but she's now gone from the competition. Kanako is around 64 pts. right now, but we'll see if she's called on any rotations at Worlds outside of JPN. Gracie clean in the SP is around 62 pts. If she does a Rippon Lutz (possible, maybe not likely), that might come up around 64 pts.
Liza has not scored near that this year in the SP, and Kaetlyn is kind of new to the scene. She was a bit subpar at 4CC's.
Who else is there to effectively knock a clean 3-2 Ashley out of the final group then??
Ashley is pretty darn good at skating the LP while being a little behind after the SP. That might be a strategy. OTOH, I'd like to see the 3-3, all guns blazing just because it would add to some dynamic skating.
Honestly, I think this competition will be even more high-caliber and intense than Vancouver!
Obviously one time doesn't mean she did it regularly, but I also can't imagine someone trying for a quad only once either.
Here are the 2013 Nationals Championship (Senior) highlight videos that mix competition and backstage footage, as posted on USFS' official YT channel:
Ladies SP: http://youtube.com/watch?v=H5pelOHTrdo
Ladies FS: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7l7CoK10jE