U.S. Ladies [#7] Wagner's Rink Cycle

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, when it comes to performing I think you either got it or you don't.................
     
  2. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Irina wasn't a great performer either but she found her style and made it work.
     
  3. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    I completely agree! Ashley totally let go and it made her that much more enjoyable to watch. That's the Wagner I want to see next season, hopefully she can bring more of that to the world stage :)

    Kudos to both girls. The USA ladies haven't had a 1-2 punch as good as Wagner and Gold for a long time. :D
     
  4. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Natural performers = people who really hard at it and practice a whole bunch so it looks natural.
     
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Cross-posting from the Programs/Choreographer thread in GSD:
    On her future plans:
     
  6. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping that Angela would skate senior internationally as well next season, but staying in the junior ranks is understandable. I'm guessing she wouldn't have been able to get 2 GP events as a senior. Looking forward to seeing her programs!
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  8. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    I do think Gracie could develop into a great performer, she does have an endearing and approachable presence on the ice. A lot has to do with choreography and the audience connecting with it.. She's got work to do but she's very likeable, that's something that will really work in her favor PCS-wise once she finds her style.
     
  9. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity, I did a list of top international scores for US ladies for this quadrennial (since Fall 2010, where IJS has kept element values more or less constant) who are still competing to see where the potential is -

    1. Ashley Wagner (2012 4CC) 192.41
    2. Mirai Nagasu (2011 4CC) 189.46
    3. Gracie Gold (2013 WTT) 188.03
    4. Alissa Czisny (2011 Worlds) 182.25
    5. Rachael Flatt (2011 4CC) 180.31
    6. Christina Gao (2013 4CC) 176.28
    7. Caroline Zhang (2012 4CC) 176.18
    8. Hannah Miller (2012 - 13 JGPF) 168.41
    9. Agnes Zawadzki (2012 CoR) 166.61
    10. Angela Wang (2012 JGP Croatia) 162.65
    11. Yasmin Siraj (2010 JGP Britain) 161.75
    12. Samantha Cesario (2012 JGP Austria) 157.72
    13. Vanessa Lam (2011 JGP Austria) 156.58
    14. Leah Keiser (2012 JGP Bosporus) 156.33
    15. Courtney Hicks (2012 JGP Lake Placid) 153.77
    16. Barbie Long (2012 JGP Slovenia) 147.19
    17. Kiri Baga (2012 JGP Lake Placid) 142.22
    18. Joelle Forte (2011 GP SA) 139.70
    19. Ashley Cain (2012 JGP Courchevel) 136.51

    Random notes-

    -It would be great to see Mirai and Alissa return to 2011 form. That would make for one hell of a competition at the top!
    -I highly doubt Rachael Flatt will ever return to her earlier form, and I would be surprised if she even continued skating.
    -I wonder if Caroline will ever find the love from the USFSA to get highly competitive marks even on the national front. She's capable of being a top US lady internationally.
    -I didn't realize that Agnes underperforms so much on the international front. The difference in her marks nationally and internationally are pretty notable.
    -I also didn't realize that Hannah has such a nice, high score and has put some distance between herself and other US juniors score-wise.
    -I think Angela Wang would be considerably higher if she put 2 clean programs together.
    -Wow at the chasm between Courtney's score at 2013 Nationals and her international scores! Was 2013 Nationals a 'one-off' for her?
    -Yasmin's best was some time ago. But, maybe we will see better from her internationally once she fully recovers from injury?
    -Both Samantha and Leah have their work cut out for them. I thought off the top of my head Samantha would be higher up the list. It looks like she will get crucified on UR's as a Senior unless she works at it.
    -Vanessa seems to be sliding down the ranks. She does well at summer competitions, only to never deliver when it counts.
    -We may see better from Ashley (Cain) with more exposure, and I assume she will concentrate on singles now?
    -I think Kiri would do better to concentrate on Pairs. JMHO
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  10. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Even then I think they'll be hard pressed to match Gold and Wagner if the latter two are at the top of their game. But with 3 spots at least one of them would be able to go as well.

    I'm going to assume she is done and retired unless she indicates otherwise.

    Maybe 4, 5 years ago she was...but now I think that window has long shut. Too much to overcome. Besides, has she ever been higher than 4th at nationals? She might have been 3rd in 2009 (don't remember) but the field then wasn't anywhere near as competitive as it is now...

    Is it her underperforming internationally...or simply being judged on a different scale? Still haven't been able to figure it out (although I will say that she tends to have stronger SPs at Nationals - the FS is basically the same time and time again though)
     
  11. Philly2034

    Philly2034 Banned Member

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    It's interesting how 5 out of the top 9 senior scores were given out at 4CC. I guess the factor of a no-pressure event is coming into play.
     
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    I disagree that 4CC is a "no-pressure event" - both Wagner and Nagasu skated extremely well in their respective 4CC competitions. 4CC can be the only chance for some to earn ISU Championship WS rankings points for the season (Nagasu, Gao, Zhang).
     
  13. Philly2034

    Philly2034 Banned Member

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    It's still amazing how many US ladies have given career skates at 4CC. I didn't realize that there were that many.
     
  14. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Guys, I will have to check, but for example Rachael had a higher score at Vancouver Olympics '10 and Caroline had a higher international score in either '08 or '09 (can't remember the competition). Thus, not everyone on my list had an absolute PB at 4CC's. I chose not to include those higher scores because the CoP was a little different (spiral sequence, etc.) and plus, they were a little further in the past.
     
  15. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Probably true. Mirai's potential amazes me, though, and I just want to see one competition where she hits it out of the ballpark. Just one? (Is that too much to ask?)

    Yep. She's only on my list because she put up that mark, but she's not a contender IMO.

    Sad, because it denigrates the true hard work she's put into improving her skating skills and going for a 3 loop - 3 loop. I don't expect to see her around Wagner or Gold, or maybe even around Czisny, Nagasu or Gao, but she IMO deserves better treatment by judges at Nationals

    Maybe both? Even when she waters down the LP and goes to a coach who uses Dartfish to teach jump technique, those LP performances are still subpar. I wonder how much longer she will get love from the USFSA. A pity because I found her SP this past season to be technically great and fun to watch. It never comes together for her in the LP. I am encouraged she finally made a GP podium this past season. Maybe there is still hope ....
     
  16. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    :cheer: Very true!!
     
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    It would depend on how many of the 5 JGP age-eligible ladies that are eligible for at least 1 GP decide to move up as well as the number of host picks -- refer to (in GSD): 2013-14 ISU Grand Prix Pre-announcement Thread

    Guaranteed 2 GPs due to their top 12 finish at Worlds: Wagner and Gold
    Guaranteed at least 1 GP invite:
    Top 24 SB & WS: Nagasu, Gao, Zawadzki
    Top 24 SB only: Miller, Wang
    Comeback: Czisny USA (if ready)
    Below top 24 SB: Cesario (#27)
     
  18. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    That competition has already happened - the 2010 Olympics. She did not win a medal...but that was the best I've seen her skate, and she has been unable to match that since.
     
  19. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    I was just going to say the same thing.

    Also her short program at the 2010 worlds.

    I just don't think she is an Ashley Wagner-You can tell Ashley WANTS to win-she had a lot of motivation by not making the 2010 Olympic Team.

    Mirai should have a lot of things to motivate her too. I don't know why it has not happened. She has way more potential than Ashley, and Ashley is placing 4th and 5th at Worlds...
     
  20. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Ashley, except in 2008 worlds has always been a reliable skater, placing usually, between 3rd to 5th in ISU competitions, sometimes doing better than that.

    Zhang would have been a reliable skater too if technique isn't sometimes in the way. (And Flatt, except her issue is injury)
     
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Interview with Gracie Gold's coach, Alexander Ouriashev (nothing really new so I decided to put it in here): http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130423&content_id=45565596&vkey=ice_news

    USFS tweeted 2 photos of Gracie during an NBC film shoot in LA today:
    http://pic.twitter.com/EpmKKyPVqQ
    http://pic.twitter.com/RHQhc8CMip

    ETA a "silhouette" photo of Gracie: http://instagram.com/p/YdpqjuLAtU/

    "Director: Can you land your triple jump in this small space on that spot? @GraceEGold : Sure! @NBCOlympics" http://pic.twitter.com/YRPM5hDi9r
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  22. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Looks like NBC is kicking off their love affair with Gracie early. Something tells me they are going to be promoting the hell outta of her in the coming months. She didn't do very well under the pressure this season so hopefully by next season she will have adjusted enough to handle it...and given how excited they were about her during this year's nationals, I can only imagine how much fluff and hype we'll see/hear next year.
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Christina Gao tweeted she is in LA... I assume the top U.S. ladies will all be doing promotional photo & media shoots for Sochi this week, including Ashley Wagner since her next SOI tour stop isn't until Friday night. NBC also filmed promos of Davis/White yesterday (links are posted in the D/W fan thread).
     
  24. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Davis/White are the flagship for US skating (the only world medalists in God knows how long) so that makes sense.

    But did Gao say she was in LA to shoot for NBC? This seems a bit odd especially seeing as she's been the 5th ranked skater in the nation for the past few years. I'd think they would call Zawadski or even Hicks before they call Christina. When was the last time the media focused on someone other than the top 2 or 3?

    The USFSA has never given Christina the time of day so if NBC is doing something for her then I say kudos to them. She should have been on the podium this year but the USFSA loves to screw her over so...
     
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    From Sarah and Drew's latest blog (focused on Ice Chips show) on IN: "Gao, Miner and the Shibutanis will be traveling to Los Angeles soon for the U.S. Olympic Committee media summit."
     
  26. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I guess it's a pre-media summit. Or maybe it's just for figure skating. The official Team USA summit doesn't take place until the end of September.

    Anyhoo, I'd love to see Christina get some recognition so if she is there for a photoshoot/TV spot I'm happy. She has improved a lot over the years and her maturity and consistency seemed to go unnoticed this year. I hope she has a real breakout season this fall.
     
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    The gathering in L.A. this week is for Team USA Sochi Olympic hopefuls in all winter sports - I started a thread in Other Sports last night (and can start a new thread in GSD as soon as the figure skaters' photos show up): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...OC-Portraits-Photo-Shoot-in-West-Hollywood-CA

    ETA: I checked the FSU Archives and the pre-Vancouver Games USOC photo shoot in L.A. was held in May 2009 and featured the top 5 ladies at 2009 Nationals -- Czisny, Flatt, Zhang, Wagner, and Nagasu.
     
  28. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Aaah...well there you go. :) Hey, I remember those pictures:
    http://0.tqn.com/d/figureskating/1/0/q/c/-/-/wagner.jpg
    https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...y_8-6KCB4yyCZ71qgFdPSnkREjVYxvXhBCIHRQvJOEjRg
    https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...TtI4316fhKuZlRzuNzLh6bj6RXHKGcZau3IwQxuViDrJA
    http://sportsgirlsplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/rachael-flatt-ice-skating-olympics.jpg
    http://0.tqn.com/d/figureskating/1/0/j/c/-/-/czisny.jpg

    I do think they should focus on some of the up-and-comers too. Take advantage of the slightly brighter spotlight on the sport to push some of the new talent (Hicks, Miller, Wang, Long, etc.). I doubt if it would work but the plan would be to introduce these newbies to the public in the hopes that they (the public) might be interested in seeing what happens to their careers post Sochi.

    I can dream, can't I?
     
  29. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    It's been only two years since someone else medaled for the U.S.! Sheesh!
     
  30. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Yah, Sylvia's right, nothing new here. All politically correct answers and obvious sucking up to USFS. What else is new?

    Although, it does look like he's singing the praises of Scott Brown, so maybe no changes there?

    Found it odd that he compared Gracie's nationals program to the birth of a child?! This guy's kidding, right? Talk about over the top!