U.S. Ladies [#7] Wagner's Rink Cycle

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Wagner won Nationals and then won 4CCs last year. The other years - well, those who don't have world assignments probably got to put all their eggs in the 4CCs basket whereas the others would still have to pace themselves.
     
  2. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Low. Last year it took Wagner three competitions (4CCs, Worlds, WTT) where she seriously attempted them for the combos to finally be clean. This season she has yet to attempt them and will be debuting them at Worlds (if she does).
     
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Kwan did the 3/3 at 99 Nationals and 99 Skate America - neither competition featured Lipinski or Slutskaya. ;)
     
  4. bek

    bek Guest

    Maybe but Gao here other than her short program skated around how she usually skates. And I think the real issue/anger is because Nationals was so questionably judged.
     
  5. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    But I still don't quite get it. What exactly are people asking for? Sounds like IIRC, some want to kick Gold off the team after this showing and replace her with Gao (just like, strangely enough, the call was to replace Czisny with...gasp...Gold!...last year). Or is it that folks are arguing for Gao to have been 2nd at Natls above Gold? Because even if Gao was 3rd the world team would STILL be Wagner/Gold...

    Man...
     
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  6. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

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    ^:lol: Last year some suggested Grace would be the answer to many a problem. And now ...what?!
     
  7. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    To find out, I posted a post-4CC US Ladies POLL here:
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...ich-US-Lady-should-accompany-Wagner-to-Worlds

    Seems the majority still want to send GRACIE , but a fair number want to send CHRISTINA.

    Someone wants to send Agnes :p ...a US ladies hater, I suspect, who only want to see two of them at Sochi.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  8. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Can't view that thread but doesn't seem too shocking I suppose.
     
  9. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    So now we give up on Gracie because she isn't dominating like some people think she should? Her best years are after Sochi simple as that. The same goes for Osmond, Tuk and Adelina.
     
  10. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Or it might be simply a Zawadzki fan...not everyone on this board is American and/or cares about the 3 spots
     
  11. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    I just can't stand how everyone seems to know exactly how everyone will skate at worlds. People need to stop writing off the top US ladies and let them decide their fate without all this brainwash stuff. I think both will come out singing at worlds but again again I just wish them the best.

    Maybe Ashley will land 3/3, maybe she'll leave it out but at least we should stop putting the writing on the wall as of right now.
     
  12. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    How do you know this?!
     
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Jammers doesn't actually know this; he just believes it. ;)

    I agree with you, but not everyone is doing this. :) Internet skating discussion forums always are going to include fans who "write off" skaters after they don't perform up to expectations in their most recent competition(s) and they tend to be the loudest (and most repetitive) voices.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  14. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Probably all of the above. It was her biggest international competition to date. She was probably scared to death. She just needs time.
     
  15. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    The first mistake in the SP was pure mental error, she was 2nd guessing herself. The 2nd mistake in the SP seemed like a timing issue, probably thinking too much.

    Not sure at what point in the LP she got the nose bleed, but I wonder how that affected her.
     
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Here were the quotes by Gracie Gold that were distributed to the media at Four Continents:

     
  17. bek

    bek Guest

    I don't want Gold/Wagner kicked of the team. What I want is a change to how worlds is decided and also Nationals to be judged more fairly. That's it.

    I never bought into the whole Gold should go to worlds.. (last year) At the end of the day I suspect the issue is Nationals determine the event but Nationals is judged questionably to say the least.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2013
  18. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Gold has been put in a very undesirable situation...she's on the world team, and one of those quotes state that she is shooting for top 10...which, FOR HER, is quite a reasonable goal given her experience level - but at the same time, you've got a whole legion of US skating fans (and media folk) who wants results NOW and who want those 3 spots...and they will demand not just top 10 but perhaps top 6-8 finish from her (depending on how Wagner does), and if she doesn't get that, woe betide her...the vultures will be relentless in their feasting...


    BTW, I include myself in there...I'll willing to admit that. It has been frustrating to see the US women sabotage their chances again and again, year after year...and realistically, I just don't see things changing this year. I'd LOVE to be wrong about this...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I hear you. I do the same thing and it's out of frustration. I've been frustrated since '09 - Czisny was a rotated 3 loop away from 8th place and 3 spots for Vancouver. Nagasu was a properly executed 2x away from a bronze medal at '10 Worlds, Flatt's injuries at '11 Worlds, Czisny's injuries at a weaker '12 Worlds ... ARGH!

    Anyway, you gotta have hope. Wagner and Gold are capable of around 4th and 9th IMO. However, the USFSA has got to dispense with the hidden injury nonsense of the past couple of years. Too bad there isn't a pill for headcaseyness, though.
     
  20. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    It hasn't been just the US women who have sabotaged themselves. The US judges have done a terrible job judging US Nationals. I don't know if they're heavily pressured by USFS but they've consistently propped up headcases like Alissa and Agnes (though, despite all her gifts, she's yet to make a world team, thankfully), while holding back some of their more consistent skaters. It seems every year lately, after US Nationals, we have the same angry discussion about WHY the US propped up a certain skater and then that very skater goes on to predictably bomb at worlds. I just wish the judges judged what they saw on the ice. Yeah, not going to happen, I know.
     
  21. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    actually, they did reward their more consistent jumpers (e.g. Flatt).

    USFS isn't proactive enough in their decision making (in general, not specifically judging related). So they make conservative decisions that yield conservative results. And by making decisions to avoid criticisms, criticisms is exactly what they will get into. Just look at the way they send girls to JGP--they can't find a controversy-free way of assigning girls to JGP, so they stick to something that sometimes don't work, creating more controversies.

    Yes, that and generous calling re: jumps at nationals, etc. etc/
     
  22. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    Meh, I've been one of Gold's biggest cheerleaders on this board and I honestly don't hope for anything beyond a top 10 finish(and even then it's not a given).

    Watching Mao at 4CC's and Kostner at Euros, it really hit me how different these skaters are from their early years. They always had excellent basics, but that extra something that takes someone to the next level as an artist wasn't there. In fact it has taken them years and a lot of bumps in the road to reach this level. It's not always a smooth ride to the top and that's ok.

    The "vultures" can feast all they want. The ice is slippery and Gold is going to fall multiple times and she's going to find a way to pick herself up. Whether she picks herself up to become something bigger in the sport or does enough to make herself proud(yes the journey matters), only time will tell.

    In the meantime, my hope is that she takes everything in stride and learns from her experiences. JMO :)
     
  23. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    True, partly. They rewarded Rachael when she delivered at nationals in 2009 and 2010 but they denied her the title in 2009 in favor of propping up Alissa, a headcase. Then Alissa bombed at worlds, predictably. And when Rachael skated poorly at 2011 nationals, they propped her up and screwed over Mirai. And Rachael bombed at worlds. Very rarely has their propping up a female skater benefitted them come worlds. Just judge what happens on the ice.
     
  24. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    Every US lady who's gone to Worlds the last few years has had to compete there knowing that she HAS TO to get those 3 spots back. And a lot of them go in carrying that load with relatively little experience. Between 2007 and 2012, the most successful, experienced US lady was Alyssa Czisny, with 12 international and 4 national medals. Wagner is closing in, with 9 international and 5 national medals. Gold, nowhere close. But if she and Wagner fail to deliver, the villagers will be running for the torches and the pitchforks...
     
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    Honestly though Nomad. Its not the skaters I want to torch. Although (I will clarify I absolutely think both Flatt and Czisny had no business skating in Worlds the last two years with their injuries. Follow Evan's example and bow out when your that injured and can't do their jumps).

    However in general the skaters can only do their best. Who I really want to torch is the Judges at US Nationals. And I suspect that's who a lot of people want to torch. If you notice the one year nobody's screaming crying about was 2010. Flatt and Nagasu have never been torched and pitch forked. And the reason being is while there were a ton of questions about Mirai winning vs Rachael. In general I don't think anyone really disagreed with the Nagasu/Flatt team. It didn't feel like anyone outside those two really deserved different placements. So both girls did their best, didn't work out okay. There's no, you judged this person soo unfairly.

    But the last few years it felt different. US Nationals was so questionably judged that its hard to imagine why people wouldn't be upset. I don't think fans are mad at the skaters. They are mad at the Judges. Its just there's no judges dart.

    And its kind of like watching history scarily repeat itself over and over again.
     
  26. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

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    LOL, that's my point! It amuses me that last year so many people heralded Gracie as the immediate saviour of US ladies, and the second she falters, they're onto her. Personally I think she and Ashley are going to have a great worlds; I seem to be far more optimistic than a lot of people here.
     
  27. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I am pleased with Gold's humility and candor post 4CC--she said she hopes to finish in the top 10 but mostly wants to have a great experience and that she is honored to share the ice with the likes of Asada. That's a nice contrast to the "Girl On Fire" image created by the media and likely her own PR team.
     
  28. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    I think it's the image a few people have created in response to the "over hyping." *Some* want to see this 17 year old as something she isn't in order to justify their own backlash. Very similar to early Cohen and even Wagner IMO. It is a big no no to want to win. Ambition isn't a good thing as far as image goes. You have to bow and scrape to the top finisher and you must always want to skate your best but never actually say you want to win. Your music must be humble in nature(whatever that entails) and above all wait your turn.

    Zzzzzz ;)
     
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  29. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I have actually never heard Gracie say that she wanted to win. There is nothing wrong with that IMO even if she did. What turned off was her reaction to her loss to Wagner. It's one thing to want to win--they all do--but it's another to act entitled. That was my perception of her behavior after the free at Nats. I am not saying it's a fact, just the sum of glimpses here and there, the way it looked to me. Plus her exhibition choice? Girl is clearly not yet on fire. Glad she has a more realistic view now.
     
  30. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    "im just happy that I tried my best, and it has really motivated me for practice"