U.S. Ladies [#7] Wagner's Rink Cycle

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I feel all of the pressure is on Ashley at World's.

    Gracie's weak performances at 4C's means there are now less expectations for her, therefore, less pressure. And that's just the kind of scenario where she thrives-just like after her poorly skated short program at Nationals.....she had nothing to lose in the freeskate, and something to prove.......
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I certainly hope Gracie Gold skates like she has "nothing to lose... and something to prove" in London! GO USA ladies! :)

    Ashley Wagner described her first Worlds in 2008 at the age of 16 this way in a new article published in the Orange County Register:
    Link to the article: http://www.ocregister.com/sports/wagner-498971-world-olympic.html
    Excerpt:
     
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I almost felt Gold in 2013 is similar to Wagner in 2008. Medaling at Jr Worlds the season before, solid but not outstanding at the GPs, narrowly missing winning Nationals, underperforming at 4CCs and going to Worlds for the first time. Of course Wagner didn't skate all the well at Worlds in 2008...
     
  4. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Pretty good comparison. The big difference is Ashley didn't have all the hype and pressure that Gracie had in her first year as a Senior. When she went to Worlds in 2008 not much was expected of her. To be honest i think it was expected that we would lose that 3rd spot with the team we sent. Meissner was fading fast Ashley was untested and Beatrisa Liang wasn't expected to finish high in the standings either.
     
  5. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Wagner's ambition is admirable (IMO) but again (sounding like a broken record) she cannot get the 3 spots back by herself...

    Although- the better she does, the more mistakes Gold can afford and still remain high enough. That may be an important factor considering Gold's newness to this type of stage...

    Still, I wouldn't be shocked if Gold turned out to be the higher finisher of the two. The 2008ers have had rather lousy history/luck as far as doing well in back-to-back Worlds...
     
  6. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    She didn't skate that poorly, as I recall. I should say, she didn't skate that differently from how she skated at Nationals. She got hammered on two-footed, ur'ed jumps.

    While anything can happen, Gracie should at least rotate her toe assisted jumps.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_KaqwaYLMM
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  7. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    I think Wagner and Gold can finish in the top 10, with at least one of them in the top five. Admittedly meaningless number-crunching:

    By Personal Best:

    Kim 228.56
    Asada 205.50
    Kostner 197.73
    Sotnikova 193.99
    Wagner 192.41
    Suzuki 190.08
    Tuktamysheva 188.85
    Murakami 181.03
    Osmond 176.45
    Gold 175.03

    By Average Score:

    Kim 201.61
    Asada 187.94
    Kostner 184.87
    Wagner 186.98
    Suzuki 182.81
    Tuktamysheva 177.56
    Sotnikova 172.29
    Murakami 171.80
    Osmond 168.67
    Gold 166.10

    By Average w/ PB Factored in:

    Kim 215.09
    Asada 192.33
    Kostner 189.15
    Wagner 188.34
    Suzuki 184.26
    Tuktamysheva 179.81
    Sotnikova 176.63
    Murakami 174.11
    Osmond 170.62
    Gold 167.89
     
  8. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well as usual your recollection is faulty. At Nationals, she landed 3/3s in both the short and long and only had a DG on a 2loop (which cost her the title). At Worlds she didn't even attempt a 3/3, fell in the long and had a couple of funky landings, and wound up in 16th place.
     
  9. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    It's still amazing to watch that now and see how much better she has gotten.

    Go Ashley! (and Gracie!)
     
  10. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    This may have something to do with the growth of the internet, social media, etc., but
    , a lot of the hype comes directly from her own team and from her own PR people.
     
  11. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Don't forget that Ashley dealt w/ the bizarre situation at '08 Worlds of getting hustled out onto the ice before being ready due to Miki's withdrawal. I know that Ashley back then had jump issues, but I think getting pushed out on the ice at your first Worlds before really being ready probably affected her more than anything else.

    Gracie shouldn't have that problem. I'm hoping Gracie has left all her bad performances behind her for the season!

    I like what John Nicks said. It also sounds like he is having a positive effect on Ashley
     
  12. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    Some parallels from 2009 season and this season. Gold is in the same position that Flatt was in back in 2009...untested at Sr Worlds. 2009 Worlds ladies team was Czisny and Flatt, and with Czisny probably having more pressure on her as the US National Champion going into Worlds (as Wagner probably does this year) . Flatt was under the radar with 1 GP season under her boots, having come out of the JPG and JrW from 2007/2008. Flatt placed 5th, and Czisny finished 11th, and that field of competitors represented pretty much everyone who showed up in Vancouver.


    I think Gold has nothing to loose, and will go for it. She has been training the more technically difficult programs....Wagner on the other hand, may go for a 2A-3T in the LP but I seriously doubt we will see a 3-3 in the SP or LP from Wagner. She has self imposed alot of pressure on herself. She is setting herself up for two scenarios as I see it.....if she does do well (and if Gold does well, also)....look at we accomplished....got 3 spots back for Socchi. But, if Ashley falters ...well, not sure how to say this, but instead of focusing on what she needs to do for Team USA as a goal, she really needs to focus on her skating. She is responsible to herself as an athlete and to her coach, and to their common goals for her performances. Period. She has to push all outside distractions away, and she doesn't seem to be able to do that, from the interview she gave post US Nationals, where she discussed about how superstitious she is...
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130125&content_id=41160932&vkey=ice_news
    That makes me concerned for Wagner....she really needs to put blinders on, and focus, focus, focus.

    I think Gold will do well, as a first timer....and I am concerned for Wagner. She has to learn to put trust in her training, and not look for the little "signs" or sparkles as she calls them.
     
  13. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Dorothy Hamill was superstitious. So was Linda Fratianne. They both did pretty well for themselves ...

    I sometimes think that if the US can just squeak past that magic 13 barrier, US ladies should start to do well for themselves. If it doesn't happen this year, I think it can happen at '14 Worlds when we are certain to see a few ladies retire after Sochi and not show up for Worlds. IIRC, Japan started on its current path at '02 Worlds when Suguri and Onda both had breakthrough performances
     
  14. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Superstition is a common trait in athletes in most sports. Baseball players are notorious for bizarre and complicated superstitions. It doesn't hurt anything and for many is part of competitive ritual that helps get their minds focused. I also hate to make assumptions about any athlete's mindset from a few lines of an interview.
     
  15. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I can understand concern for Wagner, coming off two sub-par competitions and now suddenly having all this pressure for 3 spots. You saw what happened at Nationals - if she does mess up at worlds, at least let's hope she doesn't come undone like those before her...it's been a wrecked path with Nagasu, Flatt, Czisny...
     
  16. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we would see Wagner fall into a similar situation to Nagasu ('10 Worlds) with multiple mistakes, Flatt ('11) with pop-itis due to injury, and Czisny ('12) which was just catastrophic all the way around. Wagner is much less of a head case than Nagasu and Czisny, and as far as we know, she isn't injured like Flatt was in '10 - '11. Yes, it is possible she could have a mistake or two, but she seems great at picking herself back up and going for it.
     
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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  18. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Lets face it Gracie is the wildcard. She's as unpredictable as Mirai or Alissa have been in the past. If she can just go out and skate and land her jumps she can easily finish in the top 8 even if her skating lacks polish and maturity. Right now what she needs to do at Worlds is just put on a jumping clinic like she did at Nationals in the LP. We can worry next season about her working on her weakness's but for now she just needs to be the jumping machine we know she can be to get that 3rd spot back.
     
  19. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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    Per Phil Hersh on Twitter:

    Hope this doesn't effect her too much. :( I might be "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" here, but I think it's smart to arrive as early as possible. I feel like Ashley is cutting it a little close.
     
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Did she ultimately get her clothes and skates?

    Anyway, the competition starts for her on Thursday. Providing she gets/got her stuff (albeit late). She has a day to settle in. It might actually be a good distraction. When you have other crap to worry about, you're too busy to over-think your on ice performance (am I getting a Level 4? Is that 1/4 turn short?)
     
  21. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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    Hope you're right! I'm probably reading too much into the situation anyways.
     
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's my positive spirit saying this. I hope I'm right, too .... :slinkaway
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Sounds like you're right, olympic, based on these quotes this morning tweeted by AP's @nrarmour:
     
  24. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    A non skating distraction might be the best thing to happen to her actually...
     
  25. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Are skates prohibited from being included in carry-on luggage? I'm assuming they must be. If I were a skater I'd pack the essentials (skates, practice wear along with toothbrush and underwear) in a carry-on suitcase and check the rest of my luggage...
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Figure skates must be checked in on international flights, last I heard.

    ETA: Based on the practice reports and tweets I've seen, it sounds like Gracie Gold is practicing very well in London so far... hope it continues into competition! :)
    @LynnRutherford on this morning's practice:
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  27. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, why did Ashley get there so late?
     
  28. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    It depends on the airport and the country to which you are traveling.
    London's Heathrow will not allow skates as carry on even if you are just connecting thru the airport...ie, if you departed from the US, connect at Heathrow...must then check skate bags.

    AFAIK, the US skaters that travel to Canada routinely carry on their skates into Canada. Has never been an issue for figure skates.
    Short track skates have to be checked (as of Vancouver Olympic Games).

    Figure skaters that we know had only to check skates going to Canada for a year or so after 9/11.

    Most countries, when traveling back to the US, will not allow skates to be carried on.

    I am sure Wagner's skates will show up in time.
     
  29. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why, barring injury, is Gracie so inconsistent in competition? Nerves alone can't account for her erratic ups and downs.........

    Alissa was a completely different story since she never had clean, textbook jumps....Therefore it made sense when she would bomb her programs....
     
  30. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    Yes, yes they can. Some people have a sense for competition, like Lipinski or Kwan, some tolerate and (sometimes) control their nerves, like Alissa or Jeremy Abbott. Gracie has always been an inconcistent competitor, it's magnified now by the extreme pressure and expectations being put on her.