U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    The spins AND the Spiral looked really more extended than ever before. I hope all her jumps are there for her in January at Nationals
  2. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    Czisny also tends to do better when external expectations on her are lower. I agree that she could pleasantly surprise at nationals, though I doubt she'll really be in contention for the world team.

    ETA: re: Zhang's GFB - yep, that's Mandy Moore's "Only Hope", from the "A Walk to Remember" soundtrack.
  3. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Thank you for sharing Caroline's exhibition video, hope she comes back strong at Nats!
  4. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Zhang is still laboring across the ice. Her falling leaves, while pretty, looked forced. The spiral was very nice but why was she so tired towards the end?
  5. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    The dress on Zhang is an improvement; Some color on her is a good thing. I wish she would skate to something upbeat though. These GFB and slow classical stuffs that she has been doing are one big fridge break.
  6. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Her layover camel is :swoon: I remember when she was really young she did that You Raise Me Up number with all those awesome spins, glad she still has some. Lately ,in competition , she has regressed to become a just average spinner.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  8. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. The article doesn't specifically discuss her performance, just her appearance in the DFW area. I'm just doubly curious about any performance because of her slight injury at the GPF, and how it's currently effecting her.
  9. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem with Caroline's skating it's just average. She doesn't do anything exceptionally well and add the fact that she skates so slow she really doesn't have a chance against the top skaters.
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I think when CZ was quite young, she could quickly rotate her tiny body and execute all these jumps and super bendy spins, bad technique and all and still rack up the points. She was doing quite well for herself here and there yet consistency was still a problem.

    However, once she started to grow, it went from hit or miss to almost always miss.

    I give her props for making a comeback this past year, taking the time to relearn jump technique on some (but not all) her jumps. Her flip, loop and axel are better to varying degrees. But there are still areas of her skating that need a lot of help - her flutz is not bad, it's terrible and while it looked like she was moving more quickly over the ice, she seems to be quite slow again in her last few competitions.

    I wish her well and hope she does very respectably at Nationals. She only makes things more interesting and there is a good story behind her comeback.
  11. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you. There are many other US skaters worthy of more focus from the media than they are getting.

    However, the US media generally covers very little figure skating news, and doesn't have a great deal of knowledge about figure skating. Consequently, the media takes the lazy way out and will go with things that are simple and catchy, like her last name, for example. So overdone already, IMHO.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  12. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Why so worried then?
  13. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I say you're reaching a bit ;). Yes, she held off Carolina for the win but that was a "home field" advantage win. That was the one time I thought Carolina should have won and didn't. Alissa had a strong SP and a rather mediocre LP but (like so often) she was held up b/c she was the national champ skating at Skate America. The rest of her skating that year was iffy at best all the way through the GPF and nationals and then fell apart completely after that. Also you have to remember at SA she was coming off of a regular off-season break. She's been out all summer and all season long as well after undergoing hip surgery...no one knows how she'll perform.

    After last season's nuclear implosion at worlds and her absence on the GP this year, she's too much of a wildcard to send to worlds with Olympic spots on the line. If she'd competed on the GP this year and had good results and then had a strong performance at nationals, I say give her the spot. I didn't think she deserved the spot to worlds she got last year. She was shaky and nowhere near as consistent as she was the year before but b/c she was one of the best bets internationally, she got the spot...and the rest is a splat-filled history.

    Alissa is too much of a question mark. Even if she skates well I can't see them naming her to the team without some evidence to back it up. Send her to 4CC and reserve naming her to the team until after that competition, which I think they should make a regular part of the team selection anyway. First place finisher should earn an automatic ticket but the 2nd spot should be decided after 4CC based on the results. Several times we've sent 1st-3rd place finishers from nationals to 4CC and seen the 2nd or 3rd place skater from nationals score and place better at the competition. It just makes more sense to factor in the placements at 4CC b/c you're seeing how the skaters stack up against the top names at what is basically a mini-worlds competition.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  14. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^ I see your point. I'm definitely setting my expectations lower for Alissa. Just as for CZ, I want to see Alissa perform well and have a smile on her face even if she (and CZ) don't make the team.
  15. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I don't want Czisny on the team, but I hope that, like Flatt this year, she can go out with a performance she is proud of.
  16. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^Agreed. I really enjoy Alissa's skating. She's such a beautiful girl and I love her smooth flow across the ice. I'm assuming her aim is to be in the mix to make the Sochi team but at this point, her chances don't look good.

    It's going to be an interesting nationals, that's for sure...
  17. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Alissa just peaked at the wrong time. Shame, because I love her skating (so graceful and fluid!). Either way, she has so much to be proud of, whether or not she makes it to Sochi.

    TBTH the only way she's getting to Sochi is if the US has 3 spots and she can get the 3rd as kind of a "fond farewell" present.
  18. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^I still think there are a number of skaters who can (or will be able to) outskate her by next year. You've got Ashley, Mirai, Christina, Gracie, Agnes and also Angela, Hannah, Samantha, Leah and a number of other up-and-comers who may surprise next season. If there are no better options and Alissa earns that spot, I say give it to her. But IMO Alissa has been gifted way more than the current crop of US skaters combined.

    No more gifts. If Alissa wants to go to Sochi, she needs to earn her trip.
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Alissa is limited in the sense that she isn't really capable of a 3-3 (not even sure about a 2x-3t), she lips, and she can't do a 3sal. All these are chronic issues that will probably never be corrected either because it would be too much effort, age, or because she lacks big spring in her jumps. Thus, she is forced to certain jump layouts where she can repeat the lutz, axel and loop, perhaps backload a bit but that is all, and at this point in her career where she is no longer the #1 US lady, she will have to be mostly clean and rely on others to screw up to make the team.

    She is up against a US lady w/ greater consistency, attack and a better probability of landing a 3-3 (Ashley), another one who is admittedly a headcase, but younger with greater spring and speed (Mirai), another one w/ mostly great technique, speed, and a 3-3 (Gracie) and yet another one w/ great technique, a true lutz, w/ a 3-3 (Agnes). With the exception of Ashley, it's reasonable to assume that a couple of them could screw up royally at Nationals and leave the door open for Alissa, but I don't think the chances are likely.
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Even if she skates well I doubt she will be placed in the top 2 or even top 3 so I doubt that is a problem the USFSA will need to worry about anyway.
  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    If Alissa competes nationally or internationally this season, does she hurt her chances for getting GPs in the '13-'14 season?

    I'm thinking that competing this season might jeopardize her chances to be a "returning skater" next season. Maybe that's not an issue...not sure I understand the rule.

    If she competes this season, won't her GP entries for next year be determined by her '12-'13 season high score?
  22. icellist

    icellist New Member

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  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thanks for posting this video story on Nagasu! This was filmed before she left for Cup of China. Love the skating footage of a young Mirai! Includes insightful comments by her coaches, Wendy Olson and Amy Evidente. Her friend, ice dancer Roxette Howe, is interviewed as well. It also shows her training at Pickwick, getting/breaking in new skates, and her off-ice training regimen.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  24. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I just pray that we don't have a meltdown from all the top girls and Alissa finishes in the top 2. Not a nice thing to say but i don 't any faith in Alissa at this point.
  25. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Well that was a nice little piece on Mirai. Sounds like her coaches echo all the armchair coach here too. lol
  26. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget Gao! She has good technique, speed, all the triples, and is capable of two 3-3s. She's also shown a lot more consistency, elegance, and grace this season. So that's 5 girls that are very strong competition for Alissa right there, and that's not counting others like Wang, Miller, Zhang, Keiser, Cain, etc. plus strong juniors that could be in the mix next season like Edmunds and Long.
  28. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Spin Alissa Spin!!!

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    I'm starting to hope Alissa pisses on everyone's corn flakes and wins US Nationals!!!! :p
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I do think if Alissa can remain on her feet in the SP, she should be in the final group of 6 and a podium threat. However, I think her greatest danger will be the LP, not only due to her history of not holding it together, but her lack of competing this year will probably effect her fortitude in competition.

    But, I think of the juniors you mention, Wang and Miller are the only ones that could pass Alissa if she has an error or 2. Zhang is looking pretty bad thus far. But all bets are off if Alissa really falls apart which is within the realm of possibility
  30. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I hope that Gao really comes through at USN, now that finals are over and she can devote the next month to training. I've been so impressed with her this season. In a way, Alissa has been spoiled. Considering her lack of ice coverage, her overall unsureness and tentativeness, and poor jumps (whether landed or not), she really developed a reputation so that if she's clean she'll get huge marks, which I think are unjustified. Don't get me wrong, she's a lovely skater with the best spins, but she doesn't skate like a champion IMO. She gets huge marks at USN, and I hope the judges finally wake up. We've been hearing for almost eight years how she's changed her technique, yet except for the every Haley's Comet clean skate, she's falling 3 to 5 times per program. Please let's not get her even near the podium, maybe 6th so she can be on the national team. But for the love of all things holy and unholy, please let's not put her on the World team this year even if everyone else bombs.
  31. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting the video about Mirai. She seems to be in a good coaching situation and is working hard. I'm rooting for her!
  32. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you're talking about. Alissa has great ice coverage, something I noticed the last couple of times I saw her live. Yes, she's tentative, and yes, she has trouble with her jumps, but she has great ice coverage.
  33. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Like I said before, if the other skaters (mainly Wagner, Nagasu, Zawadzki, Gao) skate like they should we shouldn't have to "worry" about Czisny being good enough for the world team.

    Odds are we'll probably get 2 out of 4 to hit, which would still be enough to make it difficult for Czisny if she is not on her A-game. The real ??? that has to be answered is Czisny's condition. Is she ready to compete? And even if she is, can she hold it together here- especially considering that it's her first competition? And I'm not talking so much about the SP (don't be surprised to see her in the final group for the FS, or even top 2 or 3), but the longer FS.
  34. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I'll admit I haven't seen her skate since maybe 2009/2010, but she was severely lacking in speed, sureness and ice coverage. It was easy to overlook because she is gorgeous, cuts a pretty princess picture on the ice, and has those great spins. But ice coverage is not her strong point. I was never a fan of Flatt, but even she skated with more speed and sureness, which should say something. Eeek. Compared to say a Wagner or Nagasu, Alissa is just not even close. If I had my druthers, the World team would be Wagner/Nagasu, though I've never seen Gracie Gold skate live. Who knows if Gracie's a powerhouse that comes across in an arena. But Wagner and Nagasu do. They skate like champions (usually... poor Mirai, so much talent, so much disappointment...). I stand by my statement that Czisny has less than exemplary ice coverage, she's slow, tentative, and stalks EVERYTHING. YMMV.
  35. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I'm no big Alissa fan, but her 2011 us nationals long program is a total winner in my book. No tentativeness there at all. If she skates like that, let her win, and I say this as a non-fan.
    But the issue is really that she hasn't competed at all this year, and nationals being her first comp.
  36. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    This. When she skates like that, I'm all about Alissa.
  37. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Wang is not a junior. She skated senior last nationals.
  38. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I saw the Mirai video when she posted it on her FB page. Very interesting indeed imo. Her triple lutz at the start looked good I thought-and she seems to have a good mind-set going into Nationals. I like her coaches and I hope they get her back where she belongs-at Worlds fighting for medals and on to the Olympics!
  39. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Probably one of the best performances of her career. The ONE time she actually delivered when it was all on the line...

    Still though, if Czisny plans on Sochi, she's best off pacing herself so that the roller-coaster heads up and reaches its peak next year, not this season. Then again, maybe she's already hit her highest peak.

    I don't really know whether it is a good idea to count her out next month. It is very unlikely (world team), but we've seen her do unexpected things before...
  40. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    I would be very, very surprised if Alissa makes the podium. Her jumps weren't even "there" before her injury.

    Still, I could see a 4 triple Alissa beating a 4 triple Caroline Zhang.

    I hope Caroline shows up to Nationals well-trained like she was last year. Her SP was a delight. Her FS this season is a total snoozefest and I doubt she'll go back to her cello program for a third season.

    I don't know but I have a feeling Agnes might end up higher than people think.
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