U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    But Meissner and Flatt...well, both sucked at their respective GPFs. Meissner was about 20 points behind the 5th place competitor. Flatt had the lowest score ever for a GPF competitor. Wagner fell, but Wagner fought--hard. And she showed that one mistake (and, later, two!) wouldn't mean the end of her skate (even though that 2A fall looked really painful!). She still put up a 181.93 and her highest SP score thus far this season! I certainly wouldn't lump her in with Meissner and Flatt, who didn't rise to the challenge.

    And, as others have said, if she was going to have an off night, I'm glad she had it at the GPF--and still managed to score and place respectably.
     
  2. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    For some reason, doing poorly and finishing last at gpf is usually not a good omen for a US lady later in the season. Meissner 07-8, Flatt 2010-11, Czisny 2011-2 and 05-06 and Tonia Kwiatkowski 1996-7 (not making out of nationals).

    Gao finished last, but she didn't skate poorly. Hopefully that means the jinx escapes her. :)

    And I think there're similar patterns for US ladies at JGPF, but I haven't checked all the years.

    Hopefully, USFS won't consider gpf and jgpf qualifications for 4CC or jw or other spots, for skating poorly at the final and then at nationals usually means....not a good sign. Now skating well at the final should have a little weight, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  3. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    True, fair point. However, it is still Wagner's worst FS of the season (and actually, probably worst FS dating back a couple of years at least if you consider that she rarely if ever falls!). While she may be SCORING higher with mistakes than Meissner or Flatt did, the question remains whether she will fight back and return to previous form, or continue to fold as others before her often have. Czisny last season is a good example, although she was hardly stellar at any point in the season. But she progressively got worse as the season wore on.

    We shall see. Too soon to call anything at this point, and perhaps Wagner is in a better position to recover than Meissner and Flatt were, but it doesn't mean the task will be any easier for her.
     
  4. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    IDK-I mean it was not her best, but she did end up on the podium. From what I remember with Kimmie, every time she skated after 2006 worlds it seemed like her jumps just got worse. I think she did better at worlds but not much. Ashley has been pretty consistent since last year. This seems kind of like a fluke thing to me.
     
  5. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I hope the injury isn't serious, but after watching her LP, I'm not worried about Ashley. The 3sal was just a fluke rushed take-off and the axel was just unfortunate. She still landed five solid triples in the free, and got another clean sp under her belt. She has said that she felt a lot of pressure this season and hopefully now that she's had a not-so-great free skate and still scored well some of that pressure will be lifted.
     
  6. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Interesting and random stats:

    Average Short Program Base Value (GP events, not GPF)

    30.215 Gracie Gold
    28.28 Mirai Nagasu
    27.18 Agnes Z.
    27.09 Ashley Wagner
    26.625 Christina Gao

    Average SP TES (GP Events, not GPF)

    31.7 Mirai Nagasu
    31.55 Ashley Wagner
    31.225 Gracie Gold
    30.37 Agnes Z.
    28.745 Christina Gao
     
  7. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to Ashley & Hannah on the GP/JGP Final silver medals! :cheer2:

    Six weeks 'til Nationals! :rollin:

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Ashley WAGNER (190.63), Trophee Eric Bompard
    2. Mirai NAGASU (176.88), NHK Trophy
    3. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup
    4. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
    5. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    6. Hannah MILLER (168.41), JGP Final

    7. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb
    8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
    10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
    12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

    13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
    16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
    17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul


    Upcoming assignments:
    • (2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships)


      The 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships are January 20-27 in Omaha, NE. Click here for a complete list of Juvenile-Senior competitors.
     
  8. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Some people are reading wayyyyyyyy too far into this. She rushed a triple sal take-off and missed her toe on an axel take-off (never a fun mistake to make), no big deal. Considering all 3 jump elements in the sp and the other 4 jump elements in her free skate were Grade-A Flawless....she's be fine. In my opinion she has the 2nd best jumping technique of any world lady at the moment (after Yuna), technique will always get you through.

    May I point out Michelle Kwan at '97 Nats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LslpHwk4Avg

    Every once in a while it just happens to everyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  9. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Catching up on the JGPF ladies' FS videos, and :eek: to Hannah and Angela! Hannah's consistency is stellar, and her jumps (notably the 3F) are looking bigger than ever. I also though the 3Lz is vastly improved. Her progress the past two years -- even the past one year -- is really incredible.

    Angela was fab in the FS too! :cheer: Her 3Lz+3T+2T is perfect, and I love the addition of the 3T+2A sequence. Her jumps have such amazing ride-outs, especially her second 3Lz. :swoon: If she skates a clean short at Nationals, I have no doubt she can be in the final flight. One to watch for sure.
     
  10. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    ITA. And I really don't get the Meissner and Flatt comparisons. There's a difference between a few small mistakes and a total flop.
     
  11. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Apart from Leah, who was by no means put out an embarrassing skate, the junior ladies FS was one heck of a well-skated event. 5 clean/nearly clean performances in a row, most of them with 7 triples, 4 of them with 3lz-3ts! I was very impressed. Idk if Miyahara and Miller's jumps will survive growing, but the other girls all had fab technique, Radinova has such an expressive face, Angela has lovely arm movements, and Pogorilaya is fierce and just so striking. It was great to see.
     
  12. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I was so happy that Ashley kept going and did another triple after that horrible fall. She's a fighter, and glad she was not gravely wounded.

    I don't think she would have beat Mao even landing the jumps she fell on? Does anyone know?
     
  13. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to say, but I think she would have scored very similarly with a clean program, Mao would probably have edged her with her slight lead and a slight lead in PCS. If ever there was an incentive for Ashley to up her technical content, it should be Mao's successful 2a/3t and Yuna's scores at NRW...
     
  14. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    That was a nasty fall. It's something you expect to see on a skater learning the 2A but not from a seasoned pro. Maybe she was tired and lost focus for that brief few seconds on the take-off.
     
  15. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    This...
     
  16. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, bronze medal at Worlds and the Olympics wouldn't be half bad...
     
  17. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling Wagner is not the type to settle for a "smooth trip to" bronze though. She wants that Gold and will do whatever is within her limits to get it.
     
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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  19. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm I noticed that when Ashley's nervous or whatnot she has problems with the 3salchow. She popped it last year at Nationals during the FS, and here at the GPF she fell on it. However, her $$$ jump without a doubt is the 3loop, she can do it in her sleep, similar to how Zhenya owns the 3axel. It's so easy for her that she even does it with a spreadeagle beforehand, as well as running three turns. As for the 2A, doing it in combination with a triple seems to be a challenge for Ashley, especially when done during the second half of her FS, perhaps she needs to place it in the first half, as she has more success on it when she does. Course she'll lose that extra bonus, but it's better to land it successfully than not. Just a thought... :)
     
  20. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Remember Irina's 3lp and MK's 3f? Each was considered $$$ jump for those skaters, respectively.
     
  21. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Then there's Zhenya and his $$$ jump the 3axel, which has never failed him (knock on wood). I prefer to think of Ashley's 3loop in this regard. ;)

    Btw, I'll never forget Zhenya and the 3axel at the 2010 Olympics, right in front of me, the whole crowd hushed as we thought when he was so high up & tilted in the air he was sure to fall, but then God righted him and he landed like a cat. The audience, the moment, the skater, everything gelled, truly a magical night. :hat1:
     
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I've added the ISU Season Best score rankings post-GPF/JGPF for the 2013 Nationals ladies - 8 in the current top 22!

    1. Ashley WAGNER (190.63), Trophee Eric Bompard #2
    2. Mirai NAGASU (176.88), NHK Trophy #8
    3. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup #10
    4. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America #11
    5. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic; 166.61 at Rostelecom Cup #17
    6. Hannah MILLER (168.41), JGP Final #14
    7. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb #18
    8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz #22

    9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul #26
    10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid #27
    11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada #31
    12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled #34 [JUNIOR at U.S. Nationals]
    13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid #42
    14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel #43
    15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel #48

    Remaining 2013 Nationals Senior ladies that qualified via Sectionals (listed alphabetically):
    Sophia Adams, Morgan Bell, Becky Bereswill, Haley Dunne, Joelle Forte, Amanda Hofmann, Yasmin Siraj.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  23. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is settling, just smart. It is doing what you can do great. If Ashley whips out two triple triple combo which is what she needs I would be shocked. Joannie did what she could and was rewarded for it.
     
  24. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Wagner is capable of the 3-3 in the SP and 2A/3T in the FS - she does not currently do them.

    As for TWO 3-3s I think that is unlikely.
     
  25. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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  26. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Honest question here, has she ever done either of those cleanly in the same competition? 4CC maybe? I don't remember. If she can do the same 3/3 in the LP with the axel combo at least she would have a fighting chance against a cleanish skate by either of the top two.

    I am actually super excited for Nationals. Gold, Nagasu, Wagner, Gao... the list goes on. I just hope the judging is fair and consistent.
     
  27. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the fair and consistent judging!

    Also, unfortunately, I think the top-placed skaters will end up being the ones that just don't happen to be injured on that particular day, not necessarily the best skaters. (Last skater standing situation)
     
  28. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    She hit the 3f/3t in the sp last season at 4CC and the post-worlds Japanese competition and the 2010 CoR, but all had two-footed landings.
    The only time I've seen her hit 2a/3t without a two-footed landing was at the 2010 CoR.
     
  29. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    How can a triple flip be a money jump for you when it failed you at the most important event of your life? :p
     
  30. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the 3f was Michelle's most consistent triple, moreso than the loop, but she certainly was more consistent with her lutz and toe for example.

    When Irina fell on that loop in Turino my mouth dropped open for about ten full minutes. After watching her (erroneously) perform 3 triple loops at Worlds the year before it was just so shocking...
     
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