U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Hannah Miller is a delight. Wonderful personality and great energy with her skating. Ladies transition to senior is a tough path though. I would peg her as someone a lot of pair guys are eyeing as I think her body type, outgoing personality and skillset would make her ideally suited to rocket right to the top of senior pairs should she not have a breakthrough in senior in the 2015 season. Just crystal balling it probably too early, but she is like Kristi. Double threat potential.
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  3. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Miller/ Brubaker?? :swoon:
     
  4. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Miller/ Brubaker?? :swoon:
     
  5. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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  6. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    But has Hannah ever skated pairs before or does she have a desire to do so? I don't think Rockne is going to be waiting around until 2015. He needs a new partner like yesterday already!

    ETA:

    The Hersh article on Gao is apparently only available to digital members. Can someone provide a synopsis?
     
  7. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

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    I am frankly puzzled as to what the judges saw in Miller. Her jumps are tiny and her skating lacks amplitude. And to have her with a 3loop2loop score as well as two Russian girls with 3lutz3toes is just ???. On the bright side, if she hangs on, she is probably going to Jr Worlds.

    It looks as though Keiser has absolutely no fight. She also needs to work on power and jumping height.

    So mad for Wang. She looks so absolutely solid :(
     
  8. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

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    I hate to be very critical of skaters, especially when they are that young. But with that said, I am in agreement with you. I do think she's pleasing to watch, but she shouldn't score as high as she does imo. She needs a lot crossovers to gain any sort of speed, the skating skills score should have been lower. Then again, I didn't like anyone in the JGPF other than Wang. And I certainly do not like Radionova but that's another story..
     
  9. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I hate to sound so negative, but I agree about Miller. I find her very average in every respect and even with a 3z/1t I would have put Wang ahead or at least very close with much higher PCS scores.
     
  10. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Wang has very weak presentation skills though IMO. Her strength is definitely her jumps. I don't see any emotion from her while she skates. I do agree that Hannah is overscored, and never quite understood what gives her those big scores, but her presentation was the best of the group.
     
  11. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    :( for Ashley. Guess you can't keep that up forever, but to the very least, her LP was not disastrous. Well congrats to her for winning her first GPF medal!

    Like I've said about Christina, she has a bad habit of peaking early in the season and then fizzles out later on. Her LP was fine, but that short was disastrous.
     
  12. zoe111

    zoe111 Active Member

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    Unfortunately, I also agree about Hannah Miller. She has good presence and really does the choreography well but for whatever reason she seems to get zero flow out of her jumps. I do disagree with the comment about Wang's presentation though. I don't care what her body build is, she has lovely movement of arms and body positions through the choreography and even though she is built more like a gymnast, she seems very graceful to me in the way she moves on the ice. I love her programs and she does the choreography so well - plus great jumps. I think presentation is more than just the 'O' facial expressions - at least for me.
     
  13. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    It was bound to happen at some point- hopefully now that that's out of her system, she can focus on being in peak condition for Worlds
     
  14. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Ashley's LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WE7fG_IPms

    She fell really hard on the 2x! I was reluctant to watch after seeing the scores, but glad I did when I saw how gutsy she is. She nailed the 3f at the end! She also had the Russian audience cheering her on which was just great to see. Besides coaches an GP wins, it seems like Ashley is having more and more in common w/ Sasha - splatting twice en route to a silver medal

    BTW, no one did really well at the GPF. Akiko appeared to do just as poorly and Mao's performance wasn't exactly the best.
     
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I agree about Wang. Unfortunately, I think regarding PCS, she may be fighting an uphill battle like Flatt due to her body build. For example, I like Pogorilaya, she has a lot of energy and is a talented jumper, but and her overall skating and maturity is not really close to comparable to Wang, but she's a pretty blonde lithe Russian girl with legs up to her armpits who lands 3-3s so the gap between Wang's PCS and her own is almost non-existant and thus Pogostick winds up ahead. Maybe if Wang can start skating clean SPs, the judges will reward her a bit more in terms of PCS, but idk, I'm not really surprised at the scores and placement of Pogorilaya despite being 14 and virtually unknown because the judges historically like that kind of skater.

    Anyways, Hannah has nice presentation, and I'm happy she skated so well here. The content won't be very competitive in seniors though, if her jumps even survive any more growing she may do. But it's nice to see her do well for now, and she's probably a near lock for JW now so I'm happy for her. Also, they say she's working on a 3-3 so maybe it could happen. The jumps are small but her posture and presentation are better than Lam's so they don't bother me so much. Also the transitions were good.
     
  16. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sort of relieved for Ashley honestly, it's unrealistic to expect her to skate a perfect FS every time, so I'm glad this snafu happened here where there wasn't really anything on the line. The mistakes happened, she fought through the rest of the program, finally didn't win, but saw she could hold herself together, hold onto a podium spot in a deep field, and score decently despite things going wrong. It's a good learning experience and I'm less worried for Nationals now.
     
  17. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

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    Mistakes in the long program is the best thing that could happen to Ashley on her way to worlds (hoping she didn't get injured though). Every skater needs down events where they make mistakes in order to show up at worlds in top form, GPF was the perfect place to do that. Bonus is that she had a fantastic short and won the silver medal, not to mention she now knows she can fight back from any mistake. She's shown us time and time again that when faced with adversity she just comes back better and better.
     
  18. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Yes, better to make the mistakes here than at Nationals or Worlds - but is this just a fluke/anomaly, or the start of a downhill ride? Remember, Wagner now goes into Nationals off this rough skate, PLUS she's got a title there to defend. I'm having flashbacks to 2007 and what happened to Meissner that fall...great at her 2 events (like Wagner), near-disaster at GPF, falling 3 times- just about all thought that was out of her system- but then at 2008 Nationals she has 3 falls again (!) in the FS so you never really know.

    Just have to hope Wagner is unaffected in the long-term by that fall, and there are no serious technical issues. Even if there aren't, Nationals is a lot of pressure.
     
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Ashley was quoted as saying "The team doctor says I have a hip pointer. I don't know what that is but I can tell you it hurts." She also tweeted: "Thank you for everyone's support and concern! I am okay...it was a very bad fall but I'll be fine, just a bad bruise I hope!!"

    She reportedly has withdrawn from tomorrow's Gala exhibition.
     
  20. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Wagner has a medical excuse for not performing in the Gala.

    From the Team USA Saturday recap: http://skatingmagazineblog.com/2012/12/08/team-usa-earns-five-medals-in-sochi/
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  22. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Copied & pasted from what I wrote in another part of the forum:




    I just watched her SP & FS on youtube, and I'm proud of her! :hat1:

    To come back like that after two falls reminds me, *once again*, of Sasha Cohen, whom did the same thing at the 2006 Olympics. Here's hoping the comparisons keep coming, all the way up to the 2014 Olympics! :cool:
     
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Worst case scenario, she's off the ice until Christmas. Nationals is at the end of January. She is already well trained.

    Ashley doesn't even have to win Nationals to continue on to Worlds, plus I think she probably has a 2-3 fall advantage over Gold, Nagasu and the rest anyway. One thing we might see is a strategic decision to dial back her performances at Nationals (no 3-3 or 2x-3t attempts) and do enough to win or like I said, make the team if she's feeling 'off'.
     
  24. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Two to three fall advantage? I don't think so. In my opinion any falling will cause her to fall down the rankings. She will be fine with double footed landings here and there but I don't think the judges will look past multiple falls and still put her first.
     
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    It seems like there was something wrong with the ice at GPF comp or something. Anyway, I too think it's hard to be perfect all the time. Perhaps many of the skaters were thinking too much about this Sochi venue being the Olympic venue in a bit over a year from now.

    Ashley definitely showed fight, especially after that last hard fall. On the salchow, the commentators noted that she seemed to rush into it too quickly and didn't check out properly either. On the second double-axel which is a difficult sequence coming right after the first double-axel, Ashley unfortunately did not have enough speed to gain the amount of amplitude needed to complete the rotations. I was worried for her after that hard fall when she didn't get up right away and it seemed as if she might stop. She sure did show fight, as well as how steady her physical and mental training has been. If Ash had skated like she did in both GPs this season, she would surely have won, since altho' Mao is exquisite, she's also beatable. Ashley did well to win silver with those two mistakes, but it was a splatty event overall. I guess you really have got to be focused because "splatting" seemingly might also be contagious. I certainly hope the Sochi ice (and the competition) is more up to par for the Olympics!

    Wishing Ashley a speedy recovery from what I hope turns out to be only a bruise that will heal soon without any further complications. :saint: Perhaps Ash will have some down time this month to heal and enjoy the holidays with her family. I don't know if she was scheduled to perform in any more exhibitions prior to Nationals. If so, she may need to cancel. With Nicks at her side, surely he will guide Ashley in the best strategic way to proceed in order to be prepared for Nationals.

    Christina was obviously tentative, but she also fought through both her performances. It was likely a good experience for her, and hopefully she will still gain a confidence boost for Nationals. I'm sure she wishes she'd performed better, because the judges were not gonna give her overly high scores in any case. Yet by doing better, you give yourself more of a chance should others falter. Still, Christina doesn't have rep or great exposure with international judges and she's young yet and still developing her presentation skills. Come Nationals, I hope Christina will be back to the better form and confidence she showed at the start of the season.
     
  26. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    You can't compare Meissner 2007 to Wagner 2012. Meissner was hardly "great" at her GP events that fall. She landed three clean triples and narrowly beat a struggling Ando at Skate America (she actually did lose the FS to Miki). At Trophee Bompard, she botched her combination in the SP and was 3rd in the FS behind both Asada & Wagner. She showed up to the GPF, fell three times in the FS, and finished last.

    So far this season, Ashley put up two 127+ point free skates in a row, and has improved her SP score every time out so far. I think her GPF free skate was an anomaly and is probably not indicative of what we can expect from her this season. She's gone from Japan-Washington-France-Russia in two months and I'm sure that travel took a toll on her here. She's more confident and focused than ever this season (as witnessed by how she responded to her two falls here), so I wouldn't worry about her at Nationals. Kimmie had a lot more going on (i.e., major technique issues) that Ashley isn't dealing with.
     
  27. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    I am very impressed that Ashley showed so much fighting spirit.
    She is one US athlete ( well, she and D/W) who can legitimately ask for a bye at Nationals if she needs it and get it with no controversy. She has proven herself 200% this season. Of course I hope it does not come to that and she is in good competition form come Nationals.
     
  28. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I noticed that also. Both Akiko and Ashley took very hard falls in their LPs and I don't think it's exactly so much a fault with their jumps than with the ice. This makes mem a little nervous because isn't this ice going to be the same ice the skaters are going to skate on in 2014?
     
  29. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't trying to compare the actual skates so much as the situation both find themselves in after the GPF. Defending a title and coming into nationals off a rough skate. Not necessarily easy to simply "shake off"...Meissner was unable to do so (and for that matter, Flatt was unable to do so in 2011 after SHE had a rough GPF).
     
  30. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but my point was that Meissner (and Flatt since you brought her up) had a lot more working against them than Ashley does. At that stage in their careers, both their jump and non-jump elements were not that great. Wagner's elements are better than they ever have been. Even her spins, when not achieving Level 4s, are gaining far more +GOE than Meissner & Flatt's spins did.

    Unless this injury turns out to be really serious, I guess I wouldn't worry too much about Ashley heading into Omaha. Mentally, I don't see the GPF silver medal affecting her. It was still a respectable skate.
     
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