U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 25, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

    685
    37
    28
    So what happened to the icenetwork headline --- "Wobbly Wagner outlasts glittering Gold in Omaha. It wasn't her best skate, but Ashley Wagner earned just enough points to retain her U.S. title. Gracie Gold was..."

    I suppose they removed it quickly because of complaints?
     
  2. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    1,784
    79
    0
    1. Jenny, I expected more from you.
    2. Ok, I get it about Ashley Cain. Still...she hasn't had that great a season, unfortunately.
    3. I second Tara Lipinski! She is actually a really good commentator.
    4. ITA that USFS manages to use social media and internet content very well. VERY well. USAG should take a leaf from USFS' book! And an IN app would be very nice, as it shows up pretty poorly on a phone (and not so well on an iPad, either).

    ETA:
    It's still there. :confused:
     
  3. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

    685
    37
    28
    I read about it on another message board but got confused not finding it on google except in snapshot. So it was within a flash but not the actual article, thanks for your reply.
     
  4. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    3,802
    950
    113
    Did you ever watch figure skating competitions under 6.0?

    Expert commentators struggled mightily to explain results all the time, particularly when one skater's marks resulted in a reshuffling of the rankings of other skaters who had skated earlier. And even NBC is finally doing the work educating the audience that it should have been doing years ago; Andrea Joyce had a very good piece today about why it may be better to fall on a fully-rotated quadruple jump than to land a triple.

    It's a lot easier to understand that a Free Skate that earns a Total Segment Score of 121.36 is better than one that earns a TSS of 117.18 than it is to understand whether a Free Skate with technical marks of 5.6 5.6. 5.4 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.4 5.6 5.6 and artistic marks of 5.7 5.6 5.5 5.6 5.8 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.7 is better or worse than a Free Skate with technical marks of 5.5 5.7 5.6 5.4 5.5 5.5 5.8 5.6 5.6 and artistic marks of 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.5 5.5 5.6 5.7 5.7.
     
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,889
    3,767
    113
    There are still a few internationals where skaters can get the minimum scores, but USFS would have to beg the host for an exception to the deadline. If USFS stated an intention to send a Ladies skater to Challenge Cup, the week before Jr. Worlds in the Netherlands, then they could send Edmunds, since the deadline for sending in names is 1 February. It's Senior Ladies there, but Edmonds could either add a CH sequence to the end of her Junior FS, or, theoretically, she might be able to simply skate her Junior FS and take the time deduction if this wouldn't disqualify her, because the total score is irrelevant if she can make the Jr. Worlds TES FS minimum (35) without the CH sequence. Milan isn't far to travel from The Hague. Senior Ladies is 21-22 Feb, with exhibitions on 23, and Jr. Worlds Ladies doesn't begin until Friday, 1 Mar.

    ETA: I had read something about the Ladies' teams not being posted, and didn't realize they were and this is moot :eek:

    "She's so cute, I could pinch her cheeks!"

    "She has a twin sister in skating!"

    "She got 800 on her SAT's!"

    "He's deferred Harvard for a year!"

    "They have a cat named 'Wimpy'!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  6. Fabrichnova

    Fabrichnova Active Member

    112
    26
    28
    She pointed to herself when that comment was made, so it was pretty obvious she knows what level she was at as a competitive skater.
     
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    Jenny is lucky she peaked in an era (2003-2005) where there was no depth after Kwan and Cohen at all. Today there might not be the super star but there is a ton more depth than there was then. Jenny wouldnt even be the bronze and pewter medalist she was those few years, if lucky she would be the Mrs. 6th and 7th place she was in 2000-2002 before the U.S ladies depth fell off. Gao is a better skater than she ever was and she cant get up above 5th at Nationals. With those fugly hideous jumps, and blah skating, Kirk would get nowhere today even without the big star in her way (it doesnt take a big star to put her down, what is her best Worlds result, 15th place, lol). Sorry if my post sounded harsh but it seemed like a fair rebuttal to her own ill spirited comments, and it is completely true.
     
  8. falling_dance

    falling_dance D. Murakami's Newest Fan

    23,580
    4,393
    113
    In fairness to Kirk, she was the pewter medalist in 2001 and finished 5th in 2002, making it to the World Championships in the latter year.
     
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    13,704
    787
    113
    Yes she came 5th in 02 over Anne Patrice McDonough on a 5-4 split after Kirk skated 2 clean programs with 7 triples in the long, and Anne Patrice made 4 mistakes in her LP, LOL! In 2001 she came 4th after Cohen and a couple other contenders had to withdraw from Nationals. She was really the 6th or 7th U.S girl every year until Hughes retired, McDonough burnt out and soon retired, and Nikidinov's career fell apart with major injuries.
     
  10. falling_dance

    falling_dance D. Murakami's Newest Fan

    23,580
    4,393
    113
    You mean the ones she beat at 2000 Junior Worlds? :D

    Also, what Fabrichnova said in #726.
     
  11. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    7,134
    614
    113
    Thanks for posting, Sylvia -

    Random thoughts.

    Ashley - Per my earlier post, I'm glad Ashley is sitting out 4CC's. It's too soon to travel that distance to Japan (the Lion's Den) and face a strong Mao considering all of her strange circumstances lately. Let her hunker down and get ready for March. She WILL need a 3-3 in the SP and the 2x-3t in the LP, though because it looks like Yu Na and Mao are in their best shape since 2010, plus Carolina and at least one of the 'Russian Babies' will be a real challenge.

    Gracie - She MUST go to 4CC's to get a sense of where she stands in the eyes of Intl. judges against the strong Japanese ladies and Kaitlyn Osmond prior to Worlds.

    I'm very happy that Christina finally moves beyond Nationals and Jr. Worlds w/ her assignment to 4CC's.

    Junior ladies -

    Happy about Samantha Cesario getting an assignment to Jr. Worlds, as she will age out this year. She's too good for the USFSA to not invest in and give her the opportunity to get some points in preparation for her automatic promotion to Seniors next season. Yasmin and Courtney get the assigments based on their finishes at Nationals which is the USFSA's time-honored tradition. Angela needs to learn to deal with the SP and this is a light wake-up call.

    BTW, Scott mentioned in the broadcast that Yasmin has suffered injuries the past couple of years. This is probably what kept her down and hopefully, we will see her full potential now that she's healed.
    All around, smart moves by the USFSA.
     
  12. Philly2034

    Philly2034 Banned Member

    51
    6
    0
    There are a lot of eerie similarities between Kimmie Meissner, Alissa Czisny, and Ashley Wagner.
    In 2006-2007, Kimmie won a major senior international (4CC) and nationals, and placed 4th at worlds (with a score of 180.23).
    In 2007-2008, she did decently on the GP Circuit, but then went to the GP Final and didn't do well.
    In the 2008, nationals, she didn't perform her best, but still was good enough to go to worlds.
    At 2008 worlds, she performed poorly.
    By the 2008-2009 season, her career was basically over.

    In 2010-2011, Alissa won a major senior international (GPF) and nationals, and placed 5th at worlds (with a score of 182.25).
    In 2011-2012, she did decently on the GP Circuit, but then went to the GP Final and didn't do well.
    In the 2012, nationals, she didn't perform her best, but still was good enough to go to worlds.
    At 2012 worlds, she performed poorly.
    By the 2012-2013 season, her career was basically over.

    In 2011-2012, Ashley won a major senior international (4CC) and nationals, and placed 4th at worlds (with a score of 176.77.).
    In 2012-2013, she did decently on the GP Circuit, but then went to the GP Final and didn't do well.
    In the 2013, nationals, she didn't perform her best, but still was good enough to go to worlds.
    At 2013 worlds, she performed______.
     
  13. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    1,671
    126
    63
    This is what I don't get. People are mad that Ashley won with 2 falls in the LP instead of Gracie winning with a fall and a pop in the SP.

    Yet, the men's winner performed perfectly, and people are complaining that Jeremy should have won because no way will Max get the 3rd spot back.

    A lot of contradiction going on.
     
  14. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    3,966
    155
    63
    The interesting thing is that while all 3 had a rough skate at the GPF, only Wagner's effort was good enough for a medal (silver). In the other two instances the skater finished last...
     
  15. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

    7,680
    1,455
    113
    Minus the cheeks bit, nothing has changed.

    I'm paraphrasing from the broadcast on Saturday but...

    "She got a 100(!!) on math in her SATs"

    "Meeeeooowww" (It's still unclear who made the cat sounds, Scott or Sandra.)

    "She goes to Harvard and hasn't been to any of their games. Not even Harvard vs Yale."

    Gracie Gold fluff complete with twin sister mention.

    It's like they have a template of that they all follow. :lol:
     
  16. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    31,178
    4,415
    113
    It was Scott. Christina will never live down that one. I can see her Harvard classmates meowing at her for a long time. :cat:

    I don't particularly mind the fluffs and background mentions. I really don't care what they blather about as long as they keep it short, which they don't.
     
  17. minignome

    minignome New Member

    88
    14
    0
    Quite honestly, my eyeballs are getting strained from all the rolling I do when I hear how hard COP is to understand. It's NOT. In the US we just have at least one commentator who would rather screech and gush than do his homework. The commentators have the planned element layout for the skaters programs. The elements all have a base value (and gee, yes, a jumps base value is 10% more if done in the second half of the program). How complex can it be to say ahead of time, skater A's planned program has a base technical value of 61 points. Skater B has a base value of 54 points. Point out a couple of times during the broadcast that there is a mandatory deduction of 1 point for a fall, and they can lose up to an additional 3 points based on grade of execution, and that the skater can get up to 3 points based if they execute the element perfectly. That way it's perfectly understandable if skater A has a more difficult program planned, has one fall and does everything else well, they can still have a higher technical score than skater B's program where there are no falls, but under rotations, shaky landings/traveling spins etc. I'll give you that PCS is a quagmire that they probably can't be easily explained, but the technical piece is not rocket science.
     
  18. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    1,784
    79
    0
    I don't get 6.0. At all. I was too young during SLC to understand what happened then, too. At 8, it just didn't make sense to me. By the time I was old enough to grasp scoring, it was IJS, and I don't understand anything else.

    Where I can see the IJS problems cropping up is in levels (spins/footwork) and PCS.
     
  19. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    9,012
    671
    113
    Thanks! I had it open in a different tab when I was browsing FSU, so I just listened to the audio of it.
     
  20. query5

    query5 New Member

    672
    64
    0
    saw video of gracie and ashley free programs.
    ashley was held up because her 2 falls not only should have been ur. but downgraded as well
    hopefully she will do better at worlds,
    good luck to all
     
  21. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

    1,150
    155
    63
    I really don't see that many similarities. Yes, Kimmie went to Worlds in 2008 because skaters who finished ahead of her were too young, but she finished in seventh at nationals (compared to Ashley's first place finish). She went to the GPF, but finished a distant sixth (compared to Ashley's second place finish).

    The Alissa comparison is a bit closer, but Alissa had more struggles last season than Ashley did this season. And Ashley's never had the kind of meltdown we've seen multiple times from Alissa.

    Even if they were similar, it's still too hard to predict. I'm actually not upset that Ashley had some struggles at the GPF and Nationals. It had to happen sometime, and it's better to work through it now than at Worlds. She didn't completely fall apart either, which bodes well for her. I think she's more of a fighter than skaters like Kimmie and Alissa (both of whom I like for different reasons).
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    20,889
    3,767
    113
    Yes, and even though they are cumulatively similar and balance each other out points-wise, Wagner still landed more than twice as many jump passes in the FS than were falls, while Gold flubbed twice as many jump passes in the SP as she landed. The FS is a long haul, and falls take a lot out of the skater, yet she perservered.

    Mais non, Ladies is Ladies, and Men, who?

    I'm so glad I watched on YouTube with the Japanese commentary and will get to re-watch the IN archives when I'm back in Seattle next.

    Although I'm sad I missed scheduling the Men's broadcast, because I like to see them once on mute on a bigger screen.
     
  23. Philly2034

    Philly2034 Banned Member

    51
    6
    0
    Another eerie similarity.

    Kimmie did not go to Four Continents before 2008 worlds.

    Alissa did not go to Four Continents before 2012 worlds.

    Ashley isn't going to this year's four continents before worlds.
     
  24. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

    1,267
    335
    83
    You know what else is eerie? Both Kimmie and Ashley have an "ee" sound at the end of their names AND both have 2 syllable last names :sekret:
     
  25. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    10,967
    1,588
    113
    And all three ladies are skaters!
     
  26. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    31,178
    4,415
    113
    And ladies!
     
  27. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    1,784
    79
    0
    Eeriest comparison of all: Ashley, Alissa and Kimmie are all human beings. :p

    Kimmie was in another universe. If I had to pick a current skater to be Kimmie, I'd pick Caroline. As for Alissa, she's beautiful and talented but quite fragile. Ashley's really not a fragile type.
     
  28. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

    2,786
    370
    83
    So does Alissa if you consider her last name...:eek:
     
  29. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

    6,377
    3,501
    113
  30. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Well-Known Member

    754
    281
    63
    Most importantly Ashley no longer has to grow (ala Kimmie) and she's a fierce competitor as mentioned. Alissa lacks spine in competition but I will forever respect everything about her and adore her skating.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.