U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Didn't a skater (Brian Joubert maybe?) borrow a bit of Yagudin's footwork sequence for his "Winter" SP? I'm not sure if it was Joubert but I swear I did see a skater perform almost identical steps. I remember SOI incorporated that FWS from "Winter" into one of their group numbers. Here it is (@1:21):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jTbQWR63ZY#1m20s
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  2. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Skaters use ideas, music, and movements from other skaters all the time. In a way, that's how the sport evolved/ evolves. IOW, jumps and other moves (including spins) were created from skaters experimenting, developing and refining, and then others copying their moves till they became standard, required elements.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  3. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    Lori practically lifted Stephane Lambiel's Four Seasons and gave it to Patrick... The judges didn't seem to mind, although if I were Patrick, I'd have been pretty pissed that I paid $10 000 for that.
  4. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I hope Christina Gao skates great at 4CCs. She was wonderful at Nationals and she should definitely have been on the podium. She always looks lovely, but her fs dress was a standout (chosen by Sarah & Drew as the best ladies costume at Nationals, just in front of Ashley Wagner's fs dress). I thought Ashley Cain's fs dress was also gorgeous.

    And kudos to Samantha Cesario for skating two beautiful programs, and especially for making that Swan Lake performance her own (coming immediately after Gracie's fs performance too). It was great to see Samantha build upon the energy in the arena and not be intimidated by it. Loved Samantha's gorgeous inside edge/ outside edge spread eagles (a great highlight).
  5. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    whoops posted this in the wrong area - delete-
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  6. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Bonaly seemed to incorporate some movements from Usova and Zhulin's Four Seasons although she was not as successful.
  7. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: This music choice was in bad taste. More "hype" to go with "I'm Gold, I have the best last name ever," and the "angel who fell from heaven" comment from the commentator (Sandra?). My bf who doesn't even follow skating was appalled they would make a comment like that. Give me a break.
  8. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    ^^ Maybe she just likes that song.
  9. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I wouldn't be surprised if some of the coaches recommend that the skaters choose "inspirational" songs (gag) to motivate themselves. I wouldn't read it as a message to the world.
  10. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I'd go with a) She likes the song, b) it is motivational, c) she only skates it if she medals, which is pretty decent for a senior debut, so the message of the song isn't exactly untrue.
    (Personally I just thought it was funny how insanely crystalled her exhibition dress was - it must have cost a fortune, where her competitive costumes were pretty, but kind of understated.)

    It's like wearing a gold dress to the Olympics- it takes a bit of guts to do, but people read too much into it.
  11. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    She also skated this exhibition program (in the same outfit) for her performance on the Today Show on January 11.

    And if you look closer at each of the dresses she wore in competition at nationals this year, they've both got a TON of bling on them. Maybe just more understated since the color of the crystals matched the fabric. I did like her FS dress a lot.
  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the music was appropriate for that occasion too.


    I'll have to relook at the costumes, I just remember the chunky crystals, not all over.
  13. tonyahardly

    tonyahardly Banned Member

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    Surya Bonaly did a triple toe-triple toe combo in the short program way back at the 98 Olympics. It was considered then an easier combo than a triple lutz-double toe. I'm not impressed at all with triple toe-triple toe combos. I think it is playing it safe. Hell, Kerrigan did one in 94. I'd rather see a clean triple lutz or triple flip double toe combo in the SP. They seriously need to reconsider the values of jumps in the Code Of Points.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  14. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm I think the values are good, but perhaps they need to treat the combinations differently so that a 3-3 is only worth ~.1 more than a 3z2l combo and ~.3 more than a 3z2t combo instead of .5 and .7 respectively. This would be because repeating a jump type in combination makes the combo a bit easier, also doing anything in combination with a loop, lutz or flip is harder than doing it in combination with a 2a, toe or salchow.

    OTOH, being able to successfully do lutzes - period - and in combination is already rewarded. A skater who can repeat the lutz in the FP has a big advantage.

    I think boosting the value any more might return us to the late 90s, where every skater had something they called a lutz, whether it actually was or not.

    They could equalize things a bit by leaving the values as is but requiring that one of the jumps in the combo be an edge jump.

    I'd like them make use of the SP that way, like requiring a flying spin or layback spin with an unchanged & basic position for 8 rotations or something. I think once you get into those difficult variations on the sit spin, for example, it's almost easier than the basic position. But I've never achieved those crazy positions or done an actual sit spin, so I don't know :)
  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Oy vey, ladies and gents. I saw the post-Nats gala and Ashley had an issue with the axel again. I am worried. Hope she irons it out in time.
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I thought Ashley's skate in the gala was quite lovely. I wasn't paying much attention to any faltering on jumps, especially not in the case of the men who had just hours earlier completed their intense competition. I'm not so worried about Ashley. If anything, she needs to make sure she stays mentally strong and keeps up with the routine and confident thinking that has served her so well this season and last. I'm glad Ashley is taking the time to get completely healthy and in tip-top shape for Worlds.


    Also, ITA that Gracie skating to the Alicia Keys song was fine. I don't see anything wrong with her going out there and having fun skating to that song and being inspired by the lyrics. The important thing is balancing everything, being prepared for competition and being able to relax, have fun and enjoy the celebratory moments and her accomplishments. The media hype is gonna be there so it will be a challenge for Gracie to also keep that in perspective, and not allow it to over-define her.
  17. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't worry about jumps in an exhibition...

    What I WOULD worry about, though, is the fact that Wagner has fallen twice now in two consecutive freeskates.
  18. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Unless a triple-triple has nice flow out of it, it's not pleasant to watch.
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    And in exhibition--I wouldn't worry if it weren't the same jump, the 2A. :nervousing: Hoping very much she fixes it soon. Sending awesome axel vibes to Ashley. :inavoid:

    As to Gracie--that song is quite :yawn: with the nasal phrasing--that was Alicia Keys? :scream: Not that Ashley's GFB was that much better.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  20. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Well - I've quoted this many times, and I think it applies to both Wagner and Gold at this moment - "It's not how you START [the season], it's how you FINISH."

    For Wagner, it's proving she's not on a downward slope (continuing a concerning trend with past US champions)...that is, try not to finish weak after a strong start.

    For Gold, it's redemption from struggles in Canada and early at Nationals...that is, finish strong after a weak start.
  21. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    This is why I wish there were a base multiplier for combos, to encourage people to try harder combos even more. If a combo was multiplied by .2, then a 3t+3t = 9.82 points and a 3lz + 3t = 12.12 instead of 8.1 and 10. A 1.9 difference turns into a 2.3 point difference, encouraging the lutz toe combo even more.
  22. Maximillian

    Maximillian Well-Known Member

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    Well... if your boyfriend was appalled then...well...really something must be done about this travesty. I mean think of the children!

    Appalled? Really?

    Sometimes I think we all need to unclutch our pearls just a wee bit and get some perspective.
    Sparks, Loves_Shizuka, LynnW and 11 others like this.
  23. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I know it would be completely impractical, but I think a solution to the scoring of combos would be to add a whole new section to the current scoring system: create scores for each combo possible. Instead of jump 1+jump 2[+jump 3], it would be a set value for the two (or three) jumps together.
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I don't know why it would be impractical: it's a look-up table now for manual scoring, and it would be a bigger look-up table after combinations were added.

    It might take a programming change to look for a match on a bigger table rather than evaluate individual parts and add them together, but it's also possible that the ISU computer program has a table with all of the combinations and total values and does a match now.
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's Alicia Keys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91ti_MpdHA
    I know the video proof doesn't help the song any. :p I like Alicia Keys even if she doesn't have the best singing voice of all the diva chanteuses out there. She looks good and definitely seems at a happy place in her life.

    As to Gracie: "That girl was ON FIRE in her Nationals free skate." ;)
    Maybe Gracie should skate to something by Destiny's Child. But, oops that might send some observers into heart attack mode ...

    Ashley's been on fire last season and for most of this season, so I hope these two ladies "burn it up" in London, Ont. Forget about the noise from naysayers and do your thing, single Ladies!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY :p :slinkaway
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  26. b-man

    b-man Active Member

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    Gao indeed had a fine skate at SA. However, this was negated by her subpar performance at GPF. Here, she finished not only last, but 19 points behind Tuk in 5th. The so called international win you cite for Agnes was attended by only Gold and Lacoste among top skaters. Agnes had a narrow win over Gold who was really the only elite skater there. It isn't much of an accomplishment to win over basically one opponent. Agnes faced some heavy competition at NHK. This was a head to head competition with Nagasu, who finsihed two placements and about 10 points ahead of Agnes. If you want to talk about performances paleing in comparison, then agnes's performace paled in comparison to Nagasu at NHK. Gold had a very good skate at TEB, beating some real competition. However, this is offset by her other competitions. At the senior B, which you call a silver medal, she finished a close second to Agnes in basically a two skater competition. At SC, she had two poor skates, barely breaking a 150 score and behind Osmond, Suzuki, Murakami, Tuk, Elene G., and Makarova. So both Agnes and Gold finished, rightfully, behind Nagasu in the Grand Prix standings. Gao finsihed one spot ahead, in part, due to her silver at SA, which had the weakest field of the six GP's. With Gao's poor GPF, Nagasu's early season was equal or better than the three skaters you cited.
  27. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait until Gracie starts skating to something powerful and upbeat to go with those big huge jumps. She just needs more polish, not soft programs IMO. She should go for something big and something with fire. Actually, Gracie skating to "Firebird" might not be a bad idea..
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Gold skated her Novice FS to "Firebird" the year she won her first National medal (pewter) in 2010. I think it's good music for her.
  29. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    someone suggested piano concerto no. 1 (Tchaikovsky). I love that piece of music, the first part especially. I think the first part (sorry, not knowledgeable about musical terminology) could be cut into a stellar SP. There is a version of this recording where the strings dominate the piano in the beginning. I think that would be best.
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  30. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    He's a guy - doesn't wear pearls. Would you approve of another word than "appalled?" Did you even hear what the commentator said? It was ridiculous.
  31. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    What about he was gagging when he heard what the commentator said?!
  32. Maximillian

    Maximillian Well-Known Member

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    Face meets palm.
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  33. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Since there's been mention of what was said by announcers and commentators during Gracie's gala exhibition skate. I went back to listen again. Below is pretty much verbatim. If you follow skating, I don't think anything said was too OTT except for the comments I've bolded in red. Otherwise, I think its fairly standard fare. Its the commentators' opinions. Michael B seems to really like Gracie. I will say that I think with some of his comments, Michael B is doing what many have been doing -- putting too much pressure on Gracie. I think it's probably best just to take a deep breath, enjoy watching all the ladies, and not get too ahead in our thinking. But since this is figure skating, I guess that's out of the question. :p

    BTW, I also think the announcer, Rusty, while he must be a professional announcer, it doesn't seem like he knows a lot about figure skating. The announcing done by other skaters (e.g., Meryl & Charlie introducing Ross Miner) is more straightforward and genuine. Or as in the past, exhibition announcing done by Kurt Browning, and even Scott Hamilton was at least more knowledgeable, and the skaters don't seem as bored conversing with people who really know them and who know the sport.

    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  34. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I suggested it. :)
  35. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    If you knew anything about Michael Buckley it is to never take anything he says seriously. Yes he's a figure skating fan but he goes over the top a lot of time no matter what the subject is about.
  36. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I know nothing about him. Who is Michael Buckley? What is his claim to fame?
  37. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    He's a youtube personality.
  38. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    He mostly comments on celebrity stuff and makes fun of them. He can be entertaining and funny at times. I loved when he talked about skaters looking petrified when they took the ice. He called it Kerrigan face. :lol:
  39. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Great to see Agnes Zawadzki featured in this "Five athletes share their Olympic journey" article:
    http://espn.go.com/espnw/olympics/8926326/espnw-five-athletes-share-their-olympic-journey
    Excerpt:
  40. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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