U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Especially when you haven't really done that much...

    The media always made it sound as if Gracie has been on fire this season...I was confused half the time b/c I'm like, "have they been watching the same competitions I've been watching?" Gracie's potential is why people are so quick to proclaim she'll be great and deliver. It's obvious from practices she's fully capable of skating very well. But imagine how many people would be national champion if it was determined by what happens on the practice ice...
  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a just up from juniors skater who is being ignored in favor of Gracie? I always felt bad for Mirai because Caroline was so loudly proclaimed as skating's next savior. And then Mirai just really outshone her as a senior.
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    :respec: That's why I try and post notable articles/interviews in this thread on as many different U.S. ladies as I can. :)

    ETA 2 articles I posted in the US Nationals forum yesterday:
    Ashley Cain: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01/23/4570600/coppell-resident-ashley-cain-17.html
    Sisters Morgan and Mariah (2013 Junior silver medalist) Bell - this the third consecutive Nationals in which they have both competed: http://www.omaha.com/article/20130124/NEWS/701249912/1685

    Well said. I don't see a pity party going on either -- some people come across to me as almost gloating that she didn't skate well. I feel badly for anyone who didn't perform up to her high expectations last night (like Angela Wang, to cite another example).
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    See Sylvia's post. Like her, I didn't agree with the UR/downgrade calls on the 3l-3l. I should've been clearer about why I thought Caroline was hosed.
  5. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    or World champions? Too many to name...
  6. query5

    query5 New Member

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    to high ashley skated with mistakes that wasn't noticed
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  8. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    I've always felt bad for Caroline because the hype on her was so unreasonable and it really was obvious to most people that her technique was not going to hold up. And everyone jumped off of Caroline's bandwagon pretty quickly. Mirai has always done better without all eyes on her. She's probably lucky that she got to stay out of the hype machine for a little while. Although it only lasted until she won her National title. In the end, though, I think it was mostly Ashley who got lost behind the Mirai/Caroline/Rachael hype. And it's given her the time to grow up and mature into the skater she is today. Which seems to have worked out rather well.

    If anything, I wonder if one of the other Ladies who aren't being put under the microscope will turn out to succeed far beyond Gracie and be grateful for the time she got to make her mistakes out of the spotlight. Or maybe Gracie will still learn to flourish under the pressure. But either way, I don't think she got the better end of the deal.
  9. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    It's always problematic second-guessing the technical panel when it does, in fact, call a jump as under-rotated or downgraded unless one either has the same view in the arena or has viewed the separate feed that the panel gets to see. A jump may look fully rotated on the broadcast camera or even from some seats in the arena, but the panel doesn't use the broadcast camera. At least two of the three people on the panel thought that combination was a 3R<+3R<<, and the GOE of -1.80 suggests that the judges agreed with them.

    If I am not mistaken, Zhang has never been credited with a fully rotated triple loop on the back end of her 3R+3R combination. :shrug:
  10. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Theatregirl- Yeah, I agree with you about Caroline- I have felt badly for her in years past, but not at the beginning (possibly because I prefered Mirai as a junior and thought she deserved some credit.) Being in the spotlight does make it difficult to mature as a senior. Maybe Gracie not doing so well her first year as a senior will ultimately be better for her, because it will take some pressure off.

    I have to say, I would have never expected Ashley to be the leading lady coming into the Olympic year. You're right about the Mirai/Caroline/Rachael hype taking all eyes off her (though to me, the 4th place finish at the Olympics for Mirai meant the hype was meaningful, but I'm not a 'only medals matter' kind of fan. 4th place at the Olympics is huge.)
  11. brightphoton

    brightphoton New Member

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    Caroline was credited with a fully rotated 3Lo+3Lo at the 2012 4CCs, but she had a few negative GOEs due to a fall on the second loop.
  12. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Yes she has. At 4CC last year she got full credit for the rotation even though she stepped out of it.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2012/fc2012_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

    ETA: Brightphoton beat me to it! :) It wasn't a fall though, just a step out but she still received full credit...
  13. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Of course. I'm definitely not a tech specialist. But, I was looking at her feet during the 3-3l, watching the youtube clip, and had a different opinion on the landing. Not that my opinion matters all that much, though
  14. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Well ...Gracie's exhibition number on the TODAY show last month was to the Alicia Key's song "Girl On Fire" ;). I'm pretty sure it was a calculated choice to pick that song.
  15. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion was that she was "robbed," which implies that the technical panel wasn't doing its job properly.
  16. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Um, and that's why Agnes got a higher PCS for her SP than Nagasu?
  17. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time, the technical panel is very fair, but on some rare occasions, the technical panel has not done its jobs properly. Technical panels at various events have made some questionable and bizarre calls. And some of them obviously seem to be political/personal. Remember Yuna's downgrade on her triple toe at the 2009 GPF? And the two flips that were downgraded at 2010 Olympics? I suspect Caroline's was the same.
  18. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    In this case, I don't think they were. Maybe borderline rotations tip one way for favored skaters and the other way for skaters that are 'out of favor'. Whatever the case, I don't think the call was proper.
  19. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    What started this call to arms about slight URs getting dinged so badly?? I figure it was so that a Sarah Hughes type would never ever get close to a podium again, but as far as anyone else, I didn't have that much of a problem with URs with other skaters. And let's face it, Sarah Hughes's URs were egregious and often. Slutskaya tended to UR her back end triple, but I really can't understand Zhang's first 3R being UR'd. It should just be reflected in the GOE, which it already is. You lose points for the UR, lose even more for GOE for a credited double, and it just seems too much.

    And 'in favor' skaters it seems do get the benefit versus out of favor ones.
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt be so sure. Agnes has to do a strong LP sometime. She is too talented to keep messing it up. I wouldnt be surprised if she finally does and holds Nagasu off for 2nd, or even wins if Wagner has some problems.

    I wish all 3 could go to Worlds, hopefully those 3 will be the Sochi Olympic team.

    Zhang`s score was disgusting. They might as well held up a sign `retire now`.
  21. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Gao is so not out of it yet. She's behind Mirai and Agnes but only by like 5-6 points and she has been skating clean or nearly clean FS programs all season and does not have the same UR issues as Mirai. I think Gao will move to 2nd honestly and then Agnes and Mirai, maybe Gracie, can fight for the bronze.
  22. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  23. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    What kind of flawed logic is that? She has never done it before so she will do it now just... because has messed up every other time. lol
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    For those unaware ... Icenetwork has a free "B" video stream available and some of the Ladies' FS practice run throughs are being replayed right now. Go to the front page of IN and click on the "U.S. Champs - Backstage" link.
  25. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sylvia!
  26. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    pinky... We all know you love Christina, but the 6 points she has to make up is pretty big, and I'm not sure she'll move all the way up to second.
  27. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    True - but she could also be a Cohen where the clean FS continues to elude her throughout her career.

    I still say odds are she drops down to 3rd or 4th.

    I agree that Gao can move up, but 2nd is quite optimistic. She'll need help from above in addition to skating lights out. Very unlikely.
  28. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Spin Alissa Spin!!!

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    What's the chances of Gao finishing 5th again. She finished 5th for the last 3 years(2010, 2011,2012).
  29. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    If Gao finishes 5th again, I'll feel bummed.
  30. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I have a feeling the top four will stay the same... I don't know how I'll feel if three Oly spots depend on Zawadska's skating though. I think at best Wagner is good for third at Worlds, and so someone else needs to make top ten. I don't think Gao could do it, even though she went to GPF and must have some better international reputation now. I'd still go with Nagasu. I really didn't understand Nagasu's scores versus Zawadska's in the SP... That's why I'm thinking the standings will stay the same.
  31. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Between Zawadzki's FS mistake tendencies and Mirai's UR tendencies, I don't think 2nd for Christina is really out of the question. It's going to be hard and she'll need a good skate, but she IS a strong freeskater whereas the other 2 tend to be better SP skaters in addition to being more prone to mistakes/giving up points. 6 points is like 2 URs or a fall and another minor jump mistake...really not much in the grand scheme of things. Idk I'm hoping for Gao to make it to Worlds, I'd certainly be less nervous about her performing there than Agnes or Mirai. But truthfully, if Christina can pull up to 4th but the top 3 stay the same, I'd be very happy with that too. Or if Mirai is second. I very much like all of Ashley, Agnes, Mirai, and Christina, and Gracie too, but I think she just might need a little more time to get used to handling the senior level elite skating scene...she really is so new to all of this when you consider the experience someone like Mirai or Ashley have in comparison, even Christina with her 3 JW trips, 3 senior nationals, 2 GP seasons w/ a GPF trip, and 2 JGP seasons w/ 2 JGPF trips, has a lot more experience dealing with this kind of stuff compared to Gracie.
  32. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    pinky, I love Christina, too, but I'm thinking Christina may have to settle for just making the podium. I really hope 1-5 winds up Wagner, Nagasu, Gao, Zawadzki, Hicks.
  33. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    We will see, but I think she is too talented and too strong a competitor to not have a good LP at some point. It might be here, or it might not be, but it wouldnt surprise me if it was, and if it is she will likely make the team (and possibly even win depending what Wagner does).
  34. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I didnt say a clean FS. I said a good FS. I dont think she even needs a clean FS to stay in 2nd. If she does about 5 of her 7 jumping passes cleanly I would be surprised if she doesnt stay 2nd. Based on the SP scoring I think Nagasu would have to skate lights out to take 2nd even then, and I dont see her skating a totally clean LP with no URs either.
  35. Alwaysaway

    Alwaysaway New Member

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    I echo a lot of your thoughts. Not a big fan of the thought of Angnes "Flip a coin" Zawadski being the great American hope for 3 spots and at her first Worlds at that.
  36. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Who else is going to help Ashley getting those 3 spots back? Mirai is unreliable and is just not the skater she was a few years ago. While Agnes is shaky too if she skates clean with her big jumps she will get a good score even at Worlds.
  37. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    too strong a competitor? I think that is key. I agree Agnes is SUPER talented; however, she is a horrible competitor and has NEVER skated to her potential. Heck even in the SP she fell and due to skate order she is still second. If Agnes skates amazingly and wins I will certainly be happy for her but I also would be completely shocked.
  38. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Yea Mirai is unreliable. She just has just been skating better in every event this season and just had her best short program in years, which if done in an international competition would probably be 5 points ahead of Agnes at this point. What a loser.
  39. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think people are underestimating Agnes here, Christina too, but especially Agnes. She IS improving under Christy Krall, she's not a beacon of consistency yet for sure, but she's getting better and better each time out. I don't think she's really a headcase, I think the size of her jumps combined with her height maybe make it harder for her to consistently have control over all her jumps, but when she hits them, they are the best in the field, or well, maybe tied with Gracie but she has better presence and more maturity than Gracie at this point anyways. I think she might just surprise people and do really well in the FS. Not that it means she'll necessarily come in 1st or 2nd and make it to Worlds, but idk, I really think she is improving a lot and is due for a great FS.
  40. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

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    I'm so over this mythical third spot that the US ladies HAVE to get back. Let the top skaters be scored for what they do on the ice on Saturday and not what they could potentially do in two months. At this point everyone is so inconsistent it doesn't matter who they send. Everyone has the potential to be great or bomb in the intent so they might as well be honest in their scoring and send the top two performers.

    JMO
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