U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont totally disagree but the thing is when you are in favor they focus that much more on building you up on your strengths in the scores (eg- for Czisny spin and spiral GOE, giving her high PCS for her lines and style), and when you are not in favor they focus more on not giving you scores for your weaknesses (eg- Czisny even if she skated clean, really slow skating, weak and small jumps, simple choreography, no great presence or command). There are a wide variety of things they can justify. When they liked Czisny they could justify her giving her the highest hypothetical base scores if everyone skated clean by giving her marks for her strengths while downplaying her weaknesses (although even with that there was howls of protest about her placings at the 2009 and 2012 Nationals with her mistakes), and now that they likely done they can just as easily justify giving her only about the 6th hypothetical base scores if everyone skated cleanly if need be (probably wont have to as she is safe to make enough mistakes anyway) by marking her down for her weaknesses, while not going crazy on her strengths. Also since nobody, not even the casual skating fan, wants to see Czisny go to Worlds this year with Olympic spots on the line, and given all the gifts she was given in the past, nobody will come to her defense either even if she is lowballed for one of her better efforts, making it all the easier.
     
  2. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    A 1-axel is an illegal element in the sp, so it has to get a mandatory -3 across the board.
     
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well Czisny did better at the GPs than Wagner last season and she was the defending champion and 5th place holder at Worlds.

    I wanna bet USFS will find every single way to give Wagner points (overlooking rotations etc) and let her defend her National title without controversy. As long as she is clean with even just a 3/2, she will win the short program with huge GOEs and PCS. She is the only US lady with a shot at a World medal and having her beaten at any portion of the competition and disturb her momentum will risk her reputation. Gold, Gao and Nagasu can battle out the second spot all they want, but the first spot is Wagner's and Wagner's only. Remember how Flatt was scored at 2010 Nationals compared to Nagasu / Wagner?
     
  4. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Dornbush 2015!!!

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    Alissa's spins is where she scores a huge amount of her points. Very few ladies do Level 4 spins plus receive +2 and mostly +3 GOE on them consistently.
    (I'd cheat and give her +5 GOE because they are that good. :D)

    As a big Alissa fan, I'd be OK with her "not" making the 2013 World team but would like to see her make the 2013 4CC team and do well, come back strong during the 2013 GP's, and make the Olympic team in 2014. Hopefully the US gets 3 spots for the Olympics.
     
  5. hoptoad

    hoptoad Well-Known Member

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    Are there any recent training reports on Alissa? She mentioned wanting to compete before Nationals. Did she, or is she entered in something?
     
  6. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    She skated in the Skating & Gymnastics show last weekend and reportedly landed both 3T and 2A in a watered down version of her "La Vie en Rose" SP.
     
  7. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I know is that when she withdrew from NHK, she resolutely confirmed she would be at Nationals (this was posted in another thread) and the phrasing made it sound like she'd crawl over glass to be there. So, if she's landing triples (see posts about the show she participated in), I'm thinking we will see her there. We still have about a month before Nationals.

    Interestingly, Alissa may outperform expectations at Nationals. At '11 SA, she skated a beautiful SP to 'La Vie en Rose' scoring 64 pts., and managed to hold off Kostner to win the SA title with it being her first full competition of the season (like this Nationals would be). So, am I reaching for the stars here ? :eek:
     
  8. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    No, you're not...Czisny's competitive history would indicate that she usually does best early in her season, and she also does better in odd-numbered years. In other words, time for the roller-coaster to head up again.

    She's probably the real wildcard/spoiler in the whole Nationals scenario *IF* well-prepared, but I wouldn't be surprised at a spectacular flame-out, either. Not easy for anyone to start their season at Nationals (see Cohen 2010- yes, I know it was 4 years but same concept), much more at stake than at a GP event. Still, with the spotlight on other skaters she can take advantage of the underdog position.

    At this point, there are better candidates for our world team.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  10. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    ^ Hmm, Caroline seems to be in pretty good shape. Her spins even look better too.
     
  11. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    The spins AND the Spiral looked really more extended than ever before. I hope all her jumps are there for her in January at Nationals
     
  12. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    Czisny also tends to do better when external expectations on her are lower. I agree that she could pleasantly surprise at nationals, though I doubt she'll really be in contention for the world team.

    ETA: re: Zhang's GFB - yep, that's Mandy Moore's "Only Hope", from the "A Walk to Remember" soundtrack.
     
  13. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

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    Thank you for sharing Caroline's exhibition video, hope she comes back strong at Nats!
     
  14. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Zhang is still laboring across the ice. Her falling leaves, while pretty, looked forced. The spiral was very nice but why was she so tired towards the end?
     
  15. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    The dress on Zhang is an improvement; Some color on her is a good thing. I wish she would skate to something upbeat though. These GFB and slow classical stuffs that she has been doing are one big fridge break.
     
  16. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Her layover camel is :swoon: I remember when she was really young she did that You Raise Me Up number with all those awesome spins, glad she still has some. Lately ,in competition , she has regressed to become a just average spinner.
     
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  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  18. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. The article doesn't specifically discuss her performance, just her appearance in the DFW area. I'm just doubly curious about any performance because of her slight injury at the GPF, and how it's currently effecting her.
     
  19. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem with Caroline's skating it's just average. She doesn't do anything exceptionally well and add the fact that she skates so slow she really doesn't have a chance against the top skaters.
     
  20. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I think when CZ was quite young, she could quickly rotate her tiny body and execute all these jumps and super bendy spins, bad technique and all and still rack up the points. She was doing quite well for herself here and there yet consistency was still a problem.

    However, once she started to grow, it went from hit or miss to almost always miss.

    I give her props for making a comeback this past year, taking the time to relearn jump technique on some (but not all) her jumps. Her flip, loop and axel are better to varying degrees. But there are still areas of her skating that need a lot of help - her flutz is not bad, it's terrible and while it looked like she was moving more quickly over the ice, she seems to be quite slow again in her last few competitions.

    I wish her well and hope she does very respectably at Nationals. She only makes things more interesting and there is a good story behind her comeback.
     
  21. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you. There are many other US skaters worthy of more focus from the media than they are getting.

    However, the US media generally covers very little figure skating news, and doesn't have a great deal of knowledge about figure skating. Consequently, the media takes the lazy way out and will go with things that are simple and catchy, like her last name, for example. So overdone already, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  22. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Why so worried then?
     
  23. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I say you're reaching a bit ;). Yes, she held off Carolina for the win but that was a "home field" advantage win. That was the one time I thought Carolina should have won and didn't. Alissa had a strong SP and a rather mediocre LP but (like so often) she was held up b/c she was the national champ skating at Skate America. The rest of her skating that year was iffy at best all the way through the GPF and nationals and then fell apart completely after that. Also you have to remember at SA she was coming off of a regular off-season break. She's been out all summer and all season long as well after undergoing hip surgery...no one knows how she'll perform.

    After last season's nuclear implosion at worlds and her absence on the GP this year, she's too much of a wildcard to send to worlds with Olympic spots on the line. If she'd competed on the GP this year and had good results and then had a strong performance at nationals, I say give her the spot. I didn't think she deserved the spot to worlds she got last year. She was shaky and nowhere near as consistent as she was the year before but b/c she was one of the best bets internationally, she got the spot...and the rest is a splat-filled history.

    Alissa is too much of a question mark. Even if she skates well I can't see them naming her to the team without some evidence to back it up. Send her to 4CC and reserve naming her to the team until after that competition, which I think they should make a regular part of the team selection anyway. First place finisher should earn an automatic ticket but the 2nd spot should be decided after 4CC based on the results. Several times we've sent 1st-3rd place finishers from nationals to 4CC and seen the 2nd or 3rd place skater from nationals score and place better at the competition. It just makes more sense to factor in the placements at 4CC b/c you're seeing how the skaters stack up against the top names at what is basically a mini-worlds competition.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  24. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^ I see your point. I'm definitely setting my expectations lower for Alissa. Just as for CZ, I want to see Alissa perform well and have a smile on her face even if she (and CZ) don't make the team.
     
  25. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I don't want Czisny on the team, but I hope that, like Flatt this year, she can go out with a performance she is proud of.
     
  26. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^Agreed. I really enjoy Alissa's skating. She's such a beautiful girl and I love her smooth flow across the ice. I'm assuming her aim is to be in the mix to make the Sochi team but at this point, her chances don't look good.

    It's going to be an interesting nationals, that's for sure...
     
  27. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Alissa just peaked at the wrong time. Shame, because I love her skating (so graceful and fluid!). Either way, she has so much to be proud of, whether or not she makes it to Sochi.

    TBTH the only way she's getting to Sochi is if the US has 3 spots and she can get the 3rd as kind of a "fond farewell" present.
     
  28. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^I still think there are a number of skaters who can (or will be able to) outskate her by next year. You've got Ashley, Mirai, Christina, Gracie, Agnes and also Angela, Hannah, Samantha, Leah and a number of other up-and-comers who may surprise next season. If there are no better options and Alissa earns that spot, I say give it to her. But IMO Alissa has been gifted way more than the current crop of US skaters combined.

    No more gifts. If Alissa wants to go to Sochi, she needs to earn her trip.
     
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Alissa is limited in the sense that she isn't really capable of a 3-3 (not even sure about a 2x-3t), she lips, and she can't do a 3sal. All these are chronic issues that will probably never be corrected either because it would be too much effort, age, or because she lacks big spring in her jumps. Thus, she is forced to certain jump layouts where she can repeat the lutz, axel and loop, perhaps backload a bit but that is all, and at this point in her career where she is no longer the #1 US lady, she will have to be mostly clean and rely on others to screw up to make the team.

    She is up against a US lady w/ greater consistency, attack and a better probability of landing a 3-3 (Ashley), another one who is admittedly a headcase, but younger with greater spring and speed (Mirai), another one w/ mostly great technique, speed, and a 3-3 (Gracie) and yet another one w/ great technique, a true lutz, w/ a 3-3 (Agnes). With the exception of Ashley, it's reasonable to assume that a couple of them could screw up royally at Nationals and leave the door open for Alissa, but I don't think the chances are likely.
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Even if she skates well I doubt she will be placed in the top 2 or even top 3 so I doubt that is a problem the USFSA will need to worry about anyway.
     
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