U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Through three JGP events...

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    2. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    3. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    4. Angela WANG (150.40), JGP Lake Placid
    5. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    6. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    7. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel

    Upcoming (confirmed) assignments:
    • U.S. Int'l Classic (Gracie GOLD, Agnes ZAWADZKI) in progress
    • JGP Istanbul (Nina JIANG, Leah KEISER)
    • JGP Bled (Courtney HICKS, Barbie LONG)
    • Nebelhorn Trophy (Caroline ZHANG)
    • Finlandia Trophy (Mirai NAGASU)
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Thanks, chipso!

    Re-posting this discussion from the U.S. JGP Assignments thread:
     
  3. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    After the U.S. International Classic...

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    2. Gracie GOLD (171.15), U.S. Classic
    3. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    4. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    5. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    6. Angela WANG (150.40), JGP Lake Placid

    7. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    8. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    9. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel

    Upcoming (confirmed) assignments:
    • JGP Istanbul (Nina JIANG, Leah KEISER)
    • JGP Bled (Courtney HICKS, Barbie LONG)
    • Nebelhorn Trophy (Caroline ZHANG)
    • Finlandia Trophy (Mirai NAGASU)
     
  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Any details what Agnes and Gracie did in the LP?
     
  5. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Detailed protocols
     
  6. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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  8. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys!

    It looks like Gracie nailed her wow opening combos, but doubled the 2d 3z and fell on her 3F?

    I'm proud of Agnes for getting through an LP decently. But, she fell on the 3S of a 3s-2t combo? How did she tack on the 2t?

    Also, :kickass: for Lacoste. Beginning of the end of the Canadian ladies free-fall into the abyss?
     
  9. HSGP21

    HSGP21 New Member

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    Agnes fell on the double toe...landed a shaky triple salchow. I like her program a lot!
     
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I posted these PBP jump notes in the SLC competition thread in the Kiss and Cry forum:
     
  11. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    Not too worried about Gracie -- she really doesn't need to peak this early in the season. She now has her first senior international competition for the season out of the way and can work up from there.

    I agree with Krall that Agnes should be proud of her effort. She had a great SP and she did not have a total meltdown in the FS. Hope she keeps this up all season long.

    I agree that Lacoste had a great effort at this competition. I think all the ridiculousness of Skate Canada's Worlds selection process last season really put a fire under her.
     
  12. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Good for Agnes! All the pre-event publicity photos focused on Gracie. Pretty anticlimactic, sloppy freestyle programs for Agnes and Gracie though.

    & if I hear the word "sassy" to describe Gracie's short program one more time, I will hurl....
     
  13. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Good for Zawadzki for at least doing respectably in the FS after a strong SP. Hopefully this will help increase her confidence since that was her nemesis for the past two seasons.

    Decent effort by Gold as well, winning the FS portion (?) of the event. Yes, she wasn't perfect but she doesn't need to be. Important thing I saw was she's starting to grow up which is a positive.
     
  14. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    And she got her opening two passes! The rest will come with time, I'm guessing. Glad to see Agnes keep it together, more or less. This should be a confidence booster for her, imo.
     
  15. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    It isn't the first time Gold messed up the 3loop and I have only watched her a couple of times. Perhaps she should move it earlier?

    How about

    3lutz3toe
    3loop
    3flip half loop 3sal
    -
    3lutz
    2axel2toe
    3toe or 3sal (if he popped earlier attempts)
    3toe or 3sal, or 2axel if she already repeated 2 types of triples

    7 triples and 2 2axels is already very competitive - she doesn't need to care too much about the 10% bonus... and I am replacing the 3flip with the 3toe or 3sal, whichever she feels better about, because she gets the "e" on the flip.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  16. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Triple loop is somewhat of a problem jump for Gracie.

    Reminds me of an Olympic Champion I know ;)
     
  17. Selene

    Selene Member

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    Gracie got edge calls on all three of the flips she performed over the course of the competition. She may have to change the jump layout of her programs if she continues to get edge calls on the triple flip.

    I think her presentation has improved. Her program was quite pleasant to watch. But the last 4 jumps were ugly. So many mistakes.
     
  18. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    The edge on Gracie's flip has gotten worse... Last season, it was almost always on a flat and this season it's clearly on a slight outside edge.
     
  19. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Very happy that Agnes did well at US Classic, I have a soft spot for this young lady.

    Keep up the good work, Agnes.:cheer2:
     
  20. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Gracie landed the 3loop in 2 of her 4 major comps last year. It's her weakest jump for sure, but still much more of a reality than a certain Olympic Champion's.

    Sometimes she does a split jump into the 3-loop, increasing it's difficulty. I'm glad pushing herself with this and other difficult transitions. But perhaps at more important competitions, she could play it safe and not do the split jump. Or perhaps she could do it as her first element, thus channeling a certain 5-time World Champ.

    I think it's cool that Agnes and Gracie were so close, splitting the SP and the LP. A new rivalry of two of the US's most promising skaters is exciting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  21. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    The edge issue with Gracie's 3f and the somewhat problematic status of her 3lo make me wonder if the SP will be where she struggles to keep pace. The edge call would negate any positive GOEs she would likely otherwise get on the 3f-3t combo, so then the Rippon 3lz and the extra points it gains might not be as much of an advantage as it would be otherwise. And if she were to switch to 3lz-3t, she couldn't do the Rippon lutz and her solo jump would either be 3f (likely with an edge deduction) or a 3lo, which she seems prone to messing up. Whereas in the FS she could do 3lz-3t and then a solo Rippon lutz, and then repeat 3t or 3s instead of 3f.
     
  22. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    The 3Loop is a problematic jump for Gracie, clearly, but she is capable of doing it. She got full credit for the jump at U.S. Nationals and at WTT. Not the best execution rate, but don't think that necessarily warrants her leaving the jump out at competitions.

    As for the flip, I don't think she has a super lip---it's borderline, I'd say. She didn't get such calls last season, so I think it's a matter of just reigning it in and not rushing it.
     
  23. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if she should go for a 2a/3toe (did it with ease last season), ditch the second 3flip and do a double "rippon" lutz as her last jumping pass. If she misses one of the 3t's she could always put in a solo 3t or 3sal instead of the 2lutz.

    so it would be:
    3lz/3t
    3r (I agree, get it done early)
    3f/.5r/3s
    2a/3t
    2a
    3z
    2z 'rippon' variation
     
  24. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    If her combo in the SP is a 3fwhatever, is it still mandatory -GOE if she gets an edge call? Or can the + GOE on the jump combination cancel it out?
     
  25. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Is Gold's lip like Kim's - only an issue when the jump is to be done in combination?
     
  26. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Gracie gets edge calls on Flip and Loop sometimes but
    I'm more focused on her loop as she tends to pop or fall on it.

    Gracie is a good Free Skater so normally she bounces back, see even from her recent US Classic

    this season US junior ladies are doing well
    I see Keiser medaling in JGP Turkey, Miyahara is beatable and is not a gold lock
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  27. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    ^ Gracie hasn't fallen on a loop yet in competition.
     
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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  29. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    According to the current rules,

    The deduction for a "severe wrong edge take-off F/Lz (sign 'e')" is -2 to -3 and the final GOE must be in the minuses.

    The deduction for an "unclear edge take-off F/Lz (sign 'e')" is -2 to -3 and the final GOE is not restricted.

    No more ! symbol for unclear edges.

    So if the tech panel calls marks the "e" on a flip or lutz, the judges don't know whether the tech panel considered the takeoff edge severely wrong or just unclear. They each need to use their own judgment.

    I.e., if a judge saw or suspected the wrong edge in real time before the tech panel review and already took the minus, she would probably keep it or lower it.

    If the judge thought the jump was great in real time and didn't notice any edge problem, she might start with a positive GOE and then subtract 1 after seeing the e call.

    If she specifically noticed the edge was clearly correct in real time, or had a good view of the tracing which showed that to be the case, she could decide that even if it was unclear from the tech panel's point of view it was perfectly clear that it was correct from her point of view and she's not going to penalize it at all.
     
  30. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    Here's how the panel scored Gracie's flips:

    Short program
    2F(e)+2T BV 3.10 -0.90 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 2.20

    Long program
    3F (e)+1Lo+3S BV10.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 -1 10.00

    3F<(e) BV 4.07x -2.10 -3 -3 -3 3- 3 1.97


    It's unclear to me how much impact the edge call had on the final score. With the combo in the SP, she would have received an automatic -3 for not doing the required combo.

    As you can see in the FS with the first combo, only one judge opted to give any negative GOE. A solid combo otherwise (good 3S, good flow, etc...) may have lead to her getting zero instead of +GOE.

    And in the solo jump, she would have received a -3 anyway for the fall. Judges are also advised to give -1 or -2 in GOE for a UR.

    Also gkelly, according to ISU Communication 1724, the deduction for a unclear edge is -1 or -2 not -2 or -3 as you noted. We don't really know if the tech caller called it an unclear edge or a severe edge.

    Given she has not received such calls in the past, I am inclined to say it's not a severe edge. She has been flat before, so I think it's a matter, again, of reining it in. That is, just being mindful during program runthroughs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012