U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    I'd put Gold and Nagasu in the same boat for No.2, they have the potential of scoring high
    Zawadzki is not a contender, she can easily implode in FS, I'd have Gao and Wang ahead of her

    sad to say but I think Flatt and Zhang are done
     
  2. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Flatt is definitely out for the rest of the season to heal some nagging injuries.

    Zhang is going to need to dig deep and find some spark if she hopes to make the Worlds or 4CC team this year. She's looked absolutely dismal, which is a shame because she was fantastic at 4CCs last year.
     
  3. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    No matter what she does from here Zhang can always be proud of her 2012 comeback. It was inspiring to watch someone climb out of the ultimate depths and even be a contender at the U.S level again. I tend to agree both Flatt and Zhang are done as factors, 110% certain for Flatt, 85% likely for Zhang. It is too bad she didnt mantain her early 2012 level of skating, as the U.S women behind Wagner are still shaky enough she might have gotten some real consideration for the #2 spot if she had (which she wasnt ever going to really get at last years Nationals no matter how well she did and how poorly others did, as we basically saw play out).
     
  4. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    See I feel awkward right now. I never realized I quoted JJ and agreed so much or JJ quoted me and agreed. Unless JJ is playing games with me and knows me and has my cell number, we have never had contact before.

    But anyway, okay, I agree with JJ. Couldn't have said it better.
     
  5. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I'll see how Zhang does at Nationals before writing her off for good...I almost certainly do not see her contending for a world spot though.
     
  6. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Truer words were never written! I mean, COME ON USFSA. This is the year to let that 2nd spot be earned on the ice. I think all four are equally unreliable. I'm sure they want Gold to emerge as future star, but do they really want spots for the Olympics to depend on her? Go with whoever rotates their jumps, stands them up and skates like they want to be there.
     
  7. ambern024

    ambern024 New Member

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    i think the us best shots as of now to try and get 3 spots are Mirai and Ashley.
     
  8. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    The bolded statements contradict each other- it can only go two ways: either they score based on what they see on the ice, OR they pick and choose favorites.

    Nationals needs to be fairly judged. If Wagner slips up, penalize her appropriately. If the GP is any indication, though, she can probably afford a mistake or two anyway unless Gold skates lights out.
     
  9. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this.
     
  10. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I think "it" means the 2nd spot.
     
  11. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter - can't request fair judging and then in the same breath ask them to "protect" skater X in case she slips up...they can do one or the other, but not both!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  12. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Remember the year that Miki got the Olympics spot because she medaled at the GPF? It does kinda make sense...

    Let's see how Ashley does there, because that WILL make a difference in her Nationals PCS. But not sending the girl with the #1 score of the season for 2 seasons running and the best record of any lady internationally this season would be really hard to explain, IMO.
     
  13. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    This is a fundamental reason why I'm against the current USFS policy of simply sending the top finishers from nationals to worlds.

    When you place so much emphasis on one competition, what happens when someone who has done excellent all season long suddenly has an off-night at nationals? Whereas, if the world team didn't depend solely on nationals, there might be significantly less pressure on judges to hold up favorites (i.e. those who have skated well internationally) and more incentive to actually judge the competition fairly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  14. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how fast people are going to write off Caroline. Almost no one had any faith for her last season or the season before that or even two seasons before the last one and she still managed to make a great comeback late in the 2012 season. Who says she can't do that again this season?
     
  15. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Angela Wang skated Senior last Nationals and is in the Junior Grand Prix Final in a few weeks. She also has verified triple-triples.
     
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Well good for her if she can somehow skate as well as she did at Nationals last year, but even that netted her only 4th place in a really poorly skated event. This years event is likely to be stronger than last years, so even the same incredible skates (for her, given where she had come from, and where she would be coming from again this time) would likely not even net a result that high, never mind the 2nd spot on the World team.
     
  17. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Well, you can request anything you want, especially since the judges certainly aren't taking requests from us.

    I think stating that Wagner should be sent to worlds regardless of what happens at Nationals is just common sense. It's the system of deciding the world team at Nationals that makes "protection" necessary.
     
  18. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Which just strengthens the point I made above about the big, glaring problem with using only Nationals to determine the World team.

    Suppose everything was judged fairly and the results turned out like this: 1. Gold 2. Nagasu 3. Wagner. Forget odds, likelihood, etc. and just suppose this happens. If we had some flexibility, you can send Gold as the champion, and then choose 3rd place Wagner over 2nd place Nagasu, citing better placements and/or higher scores on the GP (and GPF qualification). The way it's set up now, they'd probably boost Wagner's PCS or GOE to make sure she's in second position, robbing Nagasu of a deserved silver medal all because of how she performed on the Grand Prix. Rep Scoring at its finest. When does a competition stop being a competition and become a coronation? We just saw this at NHK.
     
  19. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    And who says Nationals in 2012 won't be poorly skated again?
     
  20. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Thrilled for Mirai-she medalled in her final GP of the season and wasn't even expected to be there! I'm very proud of all of the U.S. ladies. I'm very excited for the GPF, Nationals-and WORLDS! :D
     
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  21. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Mirai medalled in her second gp the last three seasons, so her winning a bronze isn't really a surprise
     
  22. emma1227

    emma1227 New Member

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    Speaking of juniors, didn't Vanessa Lam have a huge score at Sectionals? Is she skating as a junior or senior at Nationals?
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    This will be Vanessa Lam's 3rd Nationals at the senior level (7th in 2011, 9th in 2012).

    SENIOR QUALIFIERS via Sectionals:
    Easterns 1-4: Samantha Cesario 163.53, Yasmin Siraj 151.35, Haley Dunne 139.69, Joelle Forte 136.47;
    Midwesterns 1-4: Ashley Cain 161.49, Becky Bereswill 149.44, Kiri Baga 141.42, Morgan Bell 133.06;
    Pacifics 1-4: Vanessa Lam 177.73, Courtney Hicks 161.72, Sophia Adams 131.49, Amanda Hofmann 122.29.

    ETA: Of those listed above, Cain, Hicks, and Hofmann are making their senior national debuts (as well as Hannah Miller, one of the 3 U.S. JGP Finalists).
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  24. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Dornbush 2015!!!

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    Angela Wang was also 6th in the Free Program at 2012 Nationals. Ahead of Nagasu and Zawadzki in the FP.

    I thought she was a little hosed on PCS in the FP since she was only 16th in the SP and skated in the earlier groups.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  25. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I seriously love Angela Wang and think she has so much potential. My only concern with her is that she's prone to really weak SPs.
     
  26. worldsnice12

    worldsnice12 Member

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    Mirai was doing great but looking at her scores makes me wonder if she does not need to work on that 3S for next season..
    I think with her current layout and if she manages to get those UR's under control she will score 120+..but Ashley is already scoring 125+ with a 6 triple LP and will surely try to upgrade her 2A/2T to a 2A/3T and potentially score 130+??

    Mirai looks very motivated and building up her confidence out there.I know it is not going to be easy for her to get those UR's and edge calls under control but I have always liked how she is going for it all and rarely pop any jumps..She has the talent to aim high and seems to be "hungry" to do better.I loved the fact that she was happy about her 3rd place at NHK (and rightly so) but not 100% satisfied with the scoring and seemed eager to get back into training.
    It is rather interesting how many "late bloomers" we have seen these last years and there are really no reason to count out these young women too early!
     
  27. emma1227

    emma1227 New Member

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    Thanks, I knew it was something insane!
     
  28. icellist

    icellist Member

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    Reminds me of a young Wagner.

    And for the 3rd year in a row, Mirai is an alternate for the GPF. IMHO, I like Mirai's programs better than Wagner's this year. I will compliment in saying that Wagner never breaks character and performs better.
     
  29. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Yes, PCS is used just like the artistic score in 6.0. No difference, just a different name.
     
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    That's why it's so important for the skaters to skate well in the SP... and why Angela Wang needs to keep churning out clean short programs like she did in her 2nd JGP in Croatia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx2qm--ZMWA