U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how anyone would know that someone coming for a short-term stay with a U.S. passport was required to have that visa. Are athletes on a watch iist at immigration? Or do they simply not get paid if they don't have the visa?

    Unless you have access to her medical information, you have no way of telling when she should have made the determination. The fact of the matter is that she did withdraw, and in enough time for the Japanese Federation to pick a replacement skater who could go to the local Japanese consulate or embassy and get that pesky visa if need be. (Of course, whether this actually happens remains to be seen.)

    I wish other skaters who know they aren't fully fit to compete would withdraw early enough to let someone replace them.
     
  2. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate Active Member

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    I wish other skaters who know they aren't fully fit to compete would withdraw early enough to let someone replace them.


    Absolutely. It is also too bad there are not more opportunities for skating so they didn't feel intense pressure to skate unwell.
     
  3. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    JMO, but it would be kind of unfair to give Alissa an international assignment after she withdrew from NHK.
     
  4. edonice

    edonice New Member

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    Wow! This is a really thoughtful interview by Mirai.

    This, especially: Your last season was not really the best one you have had. Why did last season not go that well for you?

    I would like to blame it on the obvious distractions, but when I get down to it and dig deeply, I feel I just was not me last season and it was all wrong. I did not train the way I should have trained and took one step back from my A-game the year before.
     
  5. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    According to what was posted above, she isn't really looking for one. She says a local competition would be just fine. (I suppose something in Windsor, Ont. would be both international and local for her.)

    It escapes me why people persist on talking about something would be unfair when it isn't even an issue.
     
  6. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Well if we waited until everything was confirmed, think of all the whining moments that would be forever wasted! ;)
     
  7. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    Certainly they can pass the immigration, but they can't compete. Organizers require it. It is organizer's responsibility.
     
  8. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Nationals is TWO MONTHS AWAY. Plenty of time to heal some more and get the programs in front of some judges somewhere.
     
  9. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I wasn't really trying to complain. I wrote my post in response to the comments about Alissa maybe getting Golden Spin. I know Alissa doesn't care, she just wants to compete and that's totally fine. But I still believe that giving someone who withdraws from one international assignment another international assignment to make up for it isn't fair, and that's my belief whether it's Alissa or anyone else.
     
  10. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link! Good interview and it's great that Mirai states she 'dug deep' and admitted her issues last season weren't just because of distance issues to Frank's rink. Hopefully she'll only move upward as this season goes on. :)
     
  11. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Ashley is up another notch in my books. Bigger on all three jumps compared to Skate America, and smoother skating and movements. All combined with better attack/expression making for a kick-ass short program.
     
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    And Gao without a clean short falls back into the mediocre scoring range :(. Her performance was actually nice, I thought she deserved more than 52, even with the step out on the 3t. Skating in the first group tomorrow could also hurt her PCS. I'm really pulling for her to make the GPF! Well, at least she can go out and skate with nothing to lose tomorrow!
     
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Re-posting from the TEB forum in Kiss and Cry:
    Gao (52.55, 7th) is within 3 points of 4th and 6 points of 3rd so she definitely shouldn't be counted out.
     
  14. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to Ashley for winning her second grand prix!
     
  15. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    More importantly for Wagner and Gao to be clean in the free AGAIN.
     
  16. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Judging by the scores on the ISU website, Ashley kicked some major a$$, breaking 190 pts.
     
  17. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I can say is that Ashley's team needs to work on her spin levels.
     
  18. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Apparently, Ashley is the first US woman to win two GPs in the same season since Sasha Cohen in 2003. USFS posted that on twitter. Yay Ashley!

    Agree about spin levels...she did get better levels in her SP, but she definitely needs to get those up because, even if she has the highest scores, she's still missing points she should logically get.
     
  19. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Yea she is missing out on those extra levels on the spins :( could have been even higher. Also, does John Nicks make his skaters think they are sick all the time so they have something else to think about? (cough shingles)
     
  20. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    If you didn't see the program she was just a little bit short on her camel variation in her combo spin. Therefore she didn't get the variation and lost the change of edge since she didn't hold the inside edge portion long enough. That was the two levels on her combo spin lost. On her layback she lost one level due to the first position being short a half rotation from 8. And she seems to have ditched the jump in her flying sit, therefore it can only be level 3. Overall the spins need some polish but her skating heavily reminisced of Kwan...landing jump after jump without a bit of hesitation or doubt.
     
  21. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well the new rules for the season only allow the 8 rev feature to be counted once - the first time it is attempted - so if she wants to use it for her layback, she can't use it for her deathdrop. And the jump within the spin feature doesn't work well for her deathdrop so until she could work something out, level 3 is what she has to settle for the deathdrop if she wants to keep up the quality. The level on the combination spin depends too much on whether she is running out of time, in both the short and the free. If not, she would do an outside camel as her 4th feature.
     
  22. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I just like seeing Ashley so confident! The spins have to be the next thing they work on...that and getting the 2a-3t consistent (it looks like she landed a 2a-2t today?). And yes, a triple-triple. But in the order I mentioned.

    Does Nicks have anyone to recommend to his skaters for spins? Hill was so good at getting her spins under control.
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Post-FS press conference excerpts from the TEB forum in Kiss and Cry:
    Very impressive 6-triple FS performances by both Ashley and Christina in Paris today - kudos to them! :)

    ETA: Unfortunately for Christina, she is behind Elizaveta Tuktamysheva on the 22-point (13+9) tiebreaker in the GP Final qualification standings with NHK Trophy to go - her 2 GP competition total score is 338.96 to Liza's 347.62.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    So basically after TEB it looks like US Nats is Ashley's to lose and she might not need a 3-3 or 2a-3t to win (or if she does go for them, can maybe afford some other mistakes). Also Gao's score here with a clean skate combined with last week's results make me think Gold is likely to be the 2nd girl on the World team, as for whatever reason, and whether deserved or not, she seems to have a slight PCS edge over Gao and Zawadzki, which, combined with her more ambitious content, explain why she was able to score higher than those two with more mistakes. I mean, Zawadzki got 106 for a FS with really only two errors skating in the final flight, and Gao with a clean skate in the second warmup got 112, the same as Gracie in Russia with all those mistakes she made. I do think which group you skate in makes a difference (to me, Gao's skate here was basically as good as it was at SA, where it scored 5 points higher, and Gracie's FS at COR was not all that much better than her one at SC, yet scored 13 points higher when I would have maybe put it at around 5 points higher), but as for now, it does seem that Gracie is heavy edge, especially with her SP content as if she can deliver a good SP and make the final flight at Worlds, that should help her stay afloat in FS scores should she make mistakes compared to Zawadzki or Gao who could, with a SP with mistakes, potentially fall out of even the penultimate group and might only make the penultimate group anyways even with a clean SP. I guess we'll see what happens at Nationals. If Gao and/or Zawadzki somehow manage to make the GPF though, that could help their cases. As for Mirai I'm putting her behind Gao and Zawadzki for now but NHK results (and again, should she somehow make a birth to the GPF) could alter that.

    I think the best Czisny can hope for at this point is an outside shot at the 4CCs team.
     
  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    It's funny you should bring up Kwan. IDK if it's body type or what, but whatever it is in combo w/ Ashley's current consistency, plus the way she approaches jumps and spins reminds me a lot of the Kween.

    Also, congrats to Gao. It sounds like she delivered another great LP. Any chance of her getting in the GPF??? ETA - I saw upthread that Tuk has her beat on the tiebreak ...
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Besides Wagner (30) and Korpi (26), the other 4 qualifiers are likely to be Lipnitskaia (24), Tuktamysheva (22) plus Asada (15) and Suzuki (13) at NHK Trophy next week unless, for example, Zawadzki (11) can be 2nd or higher and/or Nagasu (9) can win (or she can score 184.17+ total in winning silver).
     
  27. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Kudos to Ashley. She skated with such determination and confidence at TEB. I love the way she's pacing herself this season. She's got wonderful programs and the whole package too, not to mention a great coach! They are spot-on with the strategy re jumps and jump-layout. I really don't care about all the over-emphasis on jumps like they are the end-all and be-all in this sport. IMO, it's important to maintain a harmonious balance and that's what Ashley exhibits in spades, along with hard-won maturity and grit. She'll add more technical difficulty when and if she's ready and the timing is right. What Ashley is doing right now technically is stellar and admirable -- proven by her marks. The over-focus on jump difficulty by some fans to me is a result of being jaded by 3/3s and baby ballerinas. Triple/ triples alone do not make great skating.

    Gracie is quite wonderful, but I think she still needs time to grow in artistry. However, I'm sure that because Gracie has more impressive jumps than Christina, the edge will be given to Gracie should both Gracie and Christina perform to their capabilities at Nationals. At this point, if Christina performs as well at Nationals as she did at SA and in the fp at TEB, I prefer her skating over Gracie's, but they are both enjoyable to watch and extremely talented. I am enjoying watching Agnes and Mirai this season too. It's a shame there are only two spots available for 2013 Worlds. Whoever goes to Worlds among the ladies really need to bring back 3 spots for next season's Worlds and Olympics.
     
  28. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to Ashley on winning her second GP gold of the season in Paris! :cheer2:

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Ashley WAGNER (190.63), Trophee Eric Bompard
    2. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup
    3. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
    4. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    5. Mirai NAGASU (163.46), Cup of China
    6. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb

    7. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
    10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
    12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

    13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
    16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
    17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul


    Upcoming assignments:
    • NHK Trophy (Mirai NAGASU, Agnes ZAWADZKI)
    • JGP Final (Leah KEISER, Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
    • GP Final (Ashley WAGNER)
     
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. The chart is helpful in discerning where American ladies stand.

    The following scores don't count for purposes of your chart, but Vanessa Lam scored 177.73 at her Sectionals competition last week, Samantha scored 163.53, and Ashley Cain scored 161.49. I think at least Vanessa's and Ashley Cain's scores show improvement/progress over their international scores listed above from earlier in the season (although I realize comparing domestic to international scores is apples to oranges).

    I really hope Agnes and Mirai do well at NHK. Especially Mirai! I would like her to realize her potential.

    BTW, isn't Wagner's score the highest international CoP score for a US lady ever? Mirai had around 190 pts. in Vancouver in 2010 and 189 pts. at '11 4CC's, and perhaps Sasha Cohen scored somewhere around that no. at her best in the last decade ...

    The competition at Nats will be quite intense!
     
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ITA, and thanks for pointing out Ashley Cain's and Vanessa's recent Sectionals scores, because I think those marks likely provide a better picture of where they might place among the top finishers at Nationals. There is probably a greater correlation between Sectionals and Nationals scores than there would be between International and Nationals scores, particularly for Cain and Lam.

    Nationals is generally always exciting, but there is sure to be a bit more buzz and excitement in the ladies event in January, than there has been in recent years. :)