U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    715
    I'm not a technical caller but I'm a video replay guy on technical panels and I'm very familiar. I saw an outside edge on Mirai's first flip for sure in real time, I didn't even check the protocols. I'd have to look again at the second one. I don't think they just pulled it out of nowhere......She does have erratic edges on her flip, and I know for fact she's been called with "e" on flips in the past, this isn't new.

    ETA: looked at the replay of all three jumps on Youtube, Lutz and both flips all very clearly went off a slight outside edge. The first flip is more outside than the second but it's there in both as the last edge before she takes off.
     
  2. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,479
    Nagasu has erratic edges on both the lutz and flip. She has had IE on both jumps before. I guess working on an OE on the lutz might have affected the edge on the flip too.
     
  3. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,092
    Mirai's lutz and flip technique has always been the same since she was a junior... She always goes from an inside to an outside to an inside edge on both jumps. The extenet to which she goes on an inside edge has remained pretty much the same all throughout her career.
     
  4. emma1227

    emma1227 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    86
    I can clearly remember Mirai getting dinged with tons ur calls at 2010 Nationals, by the Olympics she had made major corrections. Interested to see how Gracie, Agnes and Caroline make out this weekend. Would love to see them do well? Had confidence in Agnes...but her long at Japan Open was a disaster. Hope it's not same old same old.
     
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,006
    New ISU personal best SP scores set at Rostelecom Cup in Moscow today for Gracie Gold 62.16 (previous best 60.18 at JGP EST 2011) & Agnes Zawadzki 60.18 (previous best 56.84 at Cup of Russia 2010) - they are in 1st & 3rd! Gold landed 3F(e)+3T, 3Lz, 2A and Zawadzki 3Lz, 3T+3T, 2A. Caroline Zhang popped a flip and is 10th with 46.15.
     
  6. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,979
    Does anyone have a bigger Lutz then Gracie? That Lutz was :eek:
     
  7. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,610
    Today Gracie Gold was GOLD.
    Fabulous skate.
     
  8. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,016
    Agnes could give her a run for her money. It'd be awesome to see those two have a jump-off...:lol:
     
    l'etoile and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    2,785
    Can you believe a few judges gave her a 0 on that element? A lutz that big from steps and and ina bauer? Ludicrous.
     
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,088
    ^I went to youtube and watched Gold, Korpi, Zawadzki and Leonova. Actually, I thought Agnes was the class of the field: beautiful jumps and improved choreography. I thought she was packaged really well! Such an improvement! But, the LP will be telling.

    Gracie also nailed it, but question - Since she lips, wouldn't it be easier for her to do a 3z-3t and 3l? A 3l is only 0.2 less than a 3f, and she wouldn't risk an edge call ... she might get better GOE and a higher score

    Korpi was generally beautiful to watch, but there just seems something wrong with a 61 pt. SP score in this day and age for a 3t-2t, 3l, 2x layout.

    Leonova has some raw talent, but I'm sorry, that choreography was hideous !
     
  11. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    439
    Gold's loop is pretty inconsistent.
     
  12. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,080
    Since you asked, yah Agnes! Feel Agnes should be in first or second after short, IMHO.
     
  13. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,599
    When she does do it cleanly though, it's a nice jump that would garner +GOE.
     
  14. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,947
    I think Agnes's SP is my favorite SP so far. Everything she did in that SP was quality and should've been judged higher. Hope she can maintain her consistency.
     
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,599
    Agnes lost a couple points from having a level 1 combo spin. Had she gotten level 4 on it as intended, her score would have likely been right up there with Gracie. Really like that program for her, hope she can hold it together in the long.
     
  16. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    7,479
    Maybe it is better for Agnes to be third in the short. She might skate a better LP without the pressure of being in first.
     
  17. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,406
    So Gracie and Agnes finish 2nd and 3rd respectively at Cup of Russia, pretty good GP season for the U.S Ladies so far if you ask me :cheer:
     
  18. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,088
    I just watched a few of the ladies on Youtube at RC. Gracie and Agnes just offered their arguments for #2 US lady. I'm actually more interested in watching Agnes develop at this point. She delivered a relatively clean LP at RC and that was by far her biggest challenge.

    Also, Ashley's SA point total is holding up really well internationally as the season progresses!

    Next week, Ashley and Christina get to make their arguments for a second time. The only big question mark now is Alissa ... BTW, have they announced a replacement for Shelepen at NHK? I hope Mirai can get it!
     
  19. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    From the ISU website
    #1- 2 flip flopped Sp/LP and overall... (Korpi/Gold) as well as #3-4 (Zawadzki/Murakami)

    Will be intesting to see how both US girls hold up under pressure at US Natls.


    Ladies

    Result

    FPl. Name Nation Points SP FS
    1 Kiira KORPI FIN
    177.19 2 1
    2 Gracie GOLD USA
    175.03 1 2
    3 Agnes ZAWADZKI USA
    166.61 3 4
    4 Kanako MURAKAMI JPN
    166.34 6 3
    5 Adelina SOTNIKOVA RUS
    157.98 5 7
    6 Alena LEONOVA RUS
    157.27 4 8
    7 Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA RUS
    153.32 8 6
    8 Viktoria HELGESSON SWE
    151.48 7 9
    9 Valentina MARCHEI ITA
    148.67 9 5
    10 Caroline ZHANG USA
    138.21 10 10
     
  20. lilshorty

    lilshorty Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    107
    Just watched Agnes' SP and LP on Youtube. Her SP was electrifying and her LP was a vast improvement from last season. I am also loving her costume and packaging. Congrats to both Gracie and Agnes for winning the silver and bronze respectively at Cup of Russia. Nationals is going to be pretty exciting!
     
  21. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,979
    Wow Caroline finished in last place. I don't see what she can really at this point to improve her scores. Compared to the other girls she's just so slow and her jumps are just not impressive.
     
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,088
    I noticed when watching her LP at the 4:00 mark, during the spiral, she had a look of pain on her face. I hope she is OK ...
     
  23. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,479
    The sad thing is she didn't even skate that badly (for herself). She missed one jump only. If she had landed that flutz, she would still have been last. If she had landed the flip in the short and hence clean for the whole competition, she would still have been second last.
     
  24. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,979
    I think the other skaters have passed her up. Her lack of speed is really telling when you see some of the other girls flying around the rink. Lets face it it just looks more impressive when you go into a jump with speed and not moving like your stuck in molasses. Her lack of speed affects almost all parts of her skating.
     
  25. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,092
    I feel that she dealing with some injury or something. She doesn't seem like herself out on the ice (in stark contrast to what she was like last season). Even some of her spins looked painful for her.
     
  26. darya_russian

    darya_russian Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    574
    It is especially obvious when you see her skating live - painful to watch, really. But it's not the only problem. Watching her SP at CoR I kept thinking that she may have gotten away with her slow skating if she was skating "big", don't know how to explain it better. She usually has powerful music, with highs and lows, and if she was hitting it, if her movements were big enough and held long enough, she still coud have been fine. But instead she just looks lost on the ice - as in 'can barely be seen on this big-big rink'.
     
  27. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,012
    After Rostelecom Cup. Gracie improves her SB score by nearly 4 points!

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Ashley WAGNER (188.37), Skate America
    2. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup
    3. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
    4. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    5. Mirai NAGASU (163.46), Cup of China
    6. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb

    7. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
    10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
    12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

    13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
    16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
    17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul

    Japan Open (free skate only) scores: Ashley WAGNER (123.57); Agnes ZAWADZKI (89.95)

    Upcoming assignments:
    • Trophee Eric Bompard (Christina GAO, Ashley WAGNER)
    • NHK Trophy (Alissa CZISNY, Agnes ZAWADZKI)
    • JGP Final (Leah KEISER, Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
     
  28. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,080
    Well, perhaps maybe live she doesn't appear as slow as you describe? Things always look different on a computer screen.

    Sounds like she probably is dealing with some kind of injury?
     
  29. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    998
    I was quite taken aback at how bad Caroline looked. I don't think it's a question of technique this time (although in her case that could always use improvement); she just looked seriously out of shape. She actually looked quite pudgy and not at all like a fit athlete - if people were complaining that Rachael Flatt didn't look in optimal condition at times, Caroline now looks far worse than Rachael ever did.
     
  30. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,080
    aren't you sweet............