U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think that the .10 bonus on the lutz negates some of the deduction for the inside edge.

    I wish she'd learn to do a proper lutz takeoff and use 2z-3t until she has a true 3z. This would give her practice on doing 3t on the back of a jump combination. If she put this in place of her current 3z, she'd have to omit the 2t from the 2a-2t. I believe the impact to her TES would be a loss of 1.18. She could make some of that back if she added a difficult feature or two to the 2a. I think she's capable of that because 2a is a strong jump for her and her legs are fresh at the beginning of the program. Also, if she's able to show better technique on the 2z-3t than she is on the 3z, she'd be gaining back the guaranteed loss of 1.0 in GOE.

    So happy for her success, but this has to be one of the worst flutzes ever. Never at any time is she even on the outside edge of the non-landing foot. They should call it a flip. What's scary is that they could call it a flip w/in the rules, I believe. And you know that's going to happen at the worst possible moment.

    I wonder why she's doing 3l+2a+seq instead of 3l2t. 3l3t is within reach for her, so I'm not sure why she's doing the much trickier 3l+2a+seq as it's riskier, imo, instead of working on the loop-toe combo. And it's only worth .24 more, if my math is right.

    I GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW :)
  2. emma1227

    emma1227 New Member

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    Completely agree, some great juniors coming up as well.
    I think we will do well in Sochi. Let's hope we can send three girls.
  3. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    The 3 Loop-2 Axel sequence is actually 0.5 more. I suspect they put it back in this season because skaters receive criticism for using the same jump layout and content. On top of that, it seems that that sequence has received more positive GOEs than her doing simply a 3 Loop-2 Toe. The higher GOE that combo got was probably 0.4, whereas the 3 Loop-2 Axel sequence has gotten even more than 1 point this season.

    And I don't know why everyone makes such a big deal out of her flutz and thinks that it's absolutely necessary for her fix it. She's doing perfectly fine with it and doesn't even receive more than 0.7 in deductions so I don't see why she should leave it out of her program until "it's fixed". At this level, I'm not sure skaters can completely fix their jump edges.
  4. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Ashley's lutz was borderline real last year. The odd time she would actually do it off an outside edge! I'm disappointed that it has gotten noticeably worse this year :/
  5. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    I agree with smarts1. The flutz issue is SO small! There are so many men and ladies who don't do their flip or lutz on the right edge. She is now doing one lutz a competition, in the second half of the program, where it receives bonus. It's such a BIG jump with a great landing, who gives a rats @ss if it's not perfect on take-off? She's getting the deduction, that's enough for me. :rolleyes:
  6. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I'd love for Ashley to kick some ass at worlds, but I think all the confident talk from Wagner's camp lately is almost asking for...a jinx from Skategod, esp considering how things can change by March. Hopefully things will go her way though
  7. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ^ that's my biggest fear...you just don't know what can happen in the next few months...
  8. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    But what's fresh about the confident talk is that it's backed up by really hard work and training. She's not saying anything bad about others, or even comparing herself to other skaters, she just says that she feels good with herself and where she is with her skating. I don't think it's a bad outlook to have.
  9. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    There's nothing inappropriate about her words. I just think there's no telling what will happen in three months, and she'll look rather foolish if all this talk sets her up as her favorite and she doesn't do well at nationals or worlds (if she qualifies). Which, actually, happens quite often (favorites not medalling).

    I like Ashley and adore all her programs this year; I do worry about tempting fate; that's all. :)
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  10. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    We're within 100 posts of thread #7! I think we should call it swagner or something. Nothing about gold/Gold! :p
  11. zebobes

    zebobes Active Member

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    Actually... you mean thread #6 :cool:

    How about "Swagger with the S'wagner!" ?
  12. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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  13. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Psh, because my counting skills are so brilliant. :D
  14. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I vote for this one!
  15. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    As long as you're not a skater counting jumps you should be fine. :p
  16. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Re: world team selection. I think one of the US ladies will have to do qualifying at worlds? That means that lady needs to be a relatively good lp skater this season. If I were judging nationals I'd keep the top short program skaters relatively close together and let the long program be more of a deciding factor. (In the past, the top short program skaters sometimes have too much of a lead going into the long)
  17. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't the QR axed this season? Isn't that the reason behind the whole deal of qualifying scores for worlds?
  18. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Oh, that's right. I was remembering the discussion last worlds but not the rule changes
  19. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    ;) I can think of a few skaters who're in my boat.
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for breaking 60 points!
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Just watched the vids on Youtube for NHK ladies: More than anything else, I'm very happy not just for Mirai's score, but the fact that she fought like hell for the landing on the 2d 3toe (she was twisted around) ! She seems to have more desire in her this season than any other season in recent memory.

    Agnes would've been in the thick of it had she completed the 3t-3t. But, I also like the way that Agnes is better able to present a program nowadays.
  23. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Finally! Mirai breaks 60. She fought for the landing on the second triple but I love that she's fighting and going for those 3/3 combos in the SP! Here's crossing fingers she nails her jumps (and no UR's please!) in the LP. Bummed for Agnes but hopefully she too will pull out a great skate in the LP.
  24. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    176.68 for Mirai at NHK! Jumps to second best score this season for US internationally this season.
  25. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Im not a fan of Mirai, but she deserved 2nd at NHK and Mao should have been 3rd ( maybe even fourth )
  26. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    So Ashley Wagner enters the GPF as the top qualifier :cheer: here's hoping that she continues to kick butt in Sochi!

    On another note, Christina Gao & Mirai Nagasu are 1st and 2nd alternates respectively.
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Home county inflation was definitely evident. Mirai was never going to have a hope to come higher than 3rd here realistically even if Suzuki and Mao had alot of problems.
  28. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Well Mirai still skated much better than CoC. Her jumps looked bigger and the rotation was pretty full on the lutzes and flips. What worries me though is that she consistently has underrotated her loops in every competition she's been in this year and the loop is normally a very solid jump for her. Congrats to Mirai on a bronze!
  29. emma1227

    emma1227 New Member

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    Go Mirai, I knew she had it in her. She seems so happy and relaxed this season, maybe this coaching move was a good thing. Frank is a great coach, but I think part of her problem was not having Evan to train with on a regular basis. From what I read he was a great motivator for her. Seems like things went downhill after the Olympics. I am sure the long ride didn't help. I hope she can keep this up.
    Nationals is going to be interesting. That second spot is so crucial in the US getting 3 spots in Sochi. Gosh our girls are so inconsistent...I love Agnes but I'm almost hoping she doesn't make the world team. Can you imagine her skating a fabulous short only to fall apart in the long. I honestly don't care who goes as long as they are consistent. Gao is proving most consistent besides Ashley.
  30. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ...or botching up the short like she did at NHK and winding up 10th and 20 pts behind the leader(s)...still, I'd choose her over Czisny at this point :shuffle:

    No pair is a sure bet but at this point a healthy Wagner MUST be one of those two spots for us to have any shot at all. Gold MIGHT be the best choice at this point for spot 2, but even she is having some consistency issues particularly in the FS. A little unsettling how she handled SC, makes me wonder how she'll deal with the (much!) bigger spotlight of Worlds.

    Then you've got Gao who seems to be on the upswing- still working out consistency issues, though...and Nagasu seems to be doing better than she has in quite some time (although never forget her meltdown in Torino...).

    Among the 4 of them I'd probably say Gold 1st (solid score at COR even with mistakes), Nagasu 2nd (previous world experience gives her edge over Gao), Gao 3rd, Zawadzki 4th.
  31. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Gao has been the most consistent but she still doesnt seem to have the scoring potential to bring in big scores. Gold I am not certain about at this point. If Nagasu can build on NHK she might be the best choice for the 2nd spot. Hard to say though, could be any of those 3 really. Of course Zawadzki could get it if she skates well at Nationals, but I dont trust her at this point (and not sure I want her to skate well at Nationals and get it since even if she does I dont trust her at this point). Forget Czisny, she doesnt stand a chance this year, even if she skates great at Nationals by some miracle no way the U.S judges will put her on the team with this being the year to qualify spots for the Olympics. Maybe if she comes back strong next year and the U.S has 3 spots she can be in the fight.

    Wagner will most likely earn her win at Nationals but even if she makes mistakes and someone else skates lights out be certain the U.S judges will place her 1st. There is no way they are not sending her to Worlds as National Champion this year, and rightly so given her international performances of the last year. It would take landing about only 1 triple for this not to happen.
  32. emma1227

    emma1227 New Member

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    Among the 4 of them I'd probably say Gold 1st (solid score at COR even with mistakes), Nagasu 2nd (previous world experience gives her edge over Gao), Gao 3rd, Zawadzki 4th.[/QUOTE]

    Completely agree with this. Gold has a long way to go in the PCS department, but the judges seem to like her. Had she skated clean I believe she could of scored 180 +. Her speed really sets her part. Thrilled to Mirai improving each outing...ahh this going to be interesting. You are right about Ash...she has to remain healthy...Can we keep her in a bubble??
  33. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    The value of 3 spots is really immeasurable. It's not good for the US or for Gracie to have everything depend on her at Worlds. It would be better if she could be a 3rd member of the team, with the US not needing her to do well to get 3 spots for Sochi.

    Also, it's horrible to think of Mirai and/or Christina sitting out from worlds. They're alternates to the GPF for pete's sake.

    OTOH, (back to Gracie) nothing builds confidence like excelling in a trial by fire early in your career. I'm sure it wasn't fun for Michelle at worlds in '94, but look how that turned out :)
  34. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sold on Gao yet. I don't think she would be a good pick for the World team either considering she tends to fizzle out later in the season and has NEVER peaked at Junior Worlds.

    Agnes is a no for me. She still hasn't proven she can skate two programs decently back-to-back and it's not like it's going to happen in a pressure packed Worlds.

    Gracie hasn't really skated a clean LP this season, so I don't know. And she doesn't have much experience either and has nerve issues. Maybe Mirai is the best bet.
  35. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Remember, if Wagner can at least get on the podium, all her teammate has to do is remain in the top 10. I can think of two right now that can probably do that even with imperfect showings: Nagasu and Gold.
  36. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think they should just give it to whoever skates best at Nationals. No U.S lady this year should go into Nationals with any clear advantage except Wagner who deserves to be protected even if she somehow has a bad event there.
  37. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    True. Gao would need to skate near perfect to be top 10 but with her consistency this year might even be likely to do that, and as unlikely not to as Nagasu or Gold are unlikely to completely bomb (which could take either out of the top 10 easily).
  38. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    A very successful GP series for the U.S. women! The most ladies GP medals out of any country this season, I believe:

    Wagner (2 golds)
    Gao (1 silver)
    Gold (1 silver)
    Nagasu (1 bronze)
    Zawadzki (1 bronze)
  39. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    And that's a wrap from the GP series! Congrats to Mirai on her bronze medal at NHK and a huge new SB score, and for Ashley as the top qualifier to the GP Final! Christina & Mirai are the 1st and 2nd alternates to the GPF, respectively.

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Ashley WAGNER (190.63), Trophee Eric Bompard
    2. Mirai NAGASU (176.88), NHK Trophy
    3. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup
    4. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
    5. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    6. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb

    7. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
    10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
    12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

    13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
    16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
    17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul


    Upcoming assignments:
    • JGP Final (Leah KEISER, Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
    • GP Final (Ashley WAGNER)

      The 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships are January 20-27 in Omaha, NE. Click here for a complete list of Juvenile-Senior competitors.
  40. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    For me, US Nationals will be one of the most exciting national competitions in quite some time: Wagner is at the top of her game and the leading world scorer thus far. BTW, it will be interesting to see what Yu Na does score-wise in December at the NRW competition.

    On top of that, I think we will see an extremely tight competition for 2nd: And any of Nagasu, Gold, Gao and Zawadzki could be that person.

    I would rank Nagasu and Gold as leading the race for #2 right now - Nagasu has the PCS, 2nd highest score thus far coupled with previous experience. She also has a hunger I have rarely seen in her. However, Gold has the biggest scoring potential and the love of the USFSA. Nagasu really needs to clean up the UR's and Gracie needs to show she's not overwhelmed by having the status of a top Senior lady. Whoever conquers their biggest obstacle will undoubtedly be #2.

    Gao is the sleeper. She has had a couple of mediocre skates in the past, but seems to have found her place in Massachusetts. It's helped her focus and finally puts her in the thick of things after being in 5th place the last couple of years. She is incredibly consistent now. However, her lack of experience in big Senior competitions after 2 years of trying might put her behind Nagasu and Gold in the minds of the USFSA. Also, I think a 3-3 at least in the SP (if not in the LP, too) would really help her cause. If she hits at least one 3-3 and there are any mistakes by Nagasu and Gold, she could be #2.

    IMO, Zawadzki is behind all of the above. While she rocks the SP (and I wouldn't be surprised to see her leading at nationals after the SP), she blows the LP. Now, it's a step up for her that as of this season, with the exception of the Japan Open, she has graduated from melting down in the LP to just being hot and cold. I know that's not a ringing endorsement but at least she's a real contender. Still, I think all of Nagasu, Gold and Gao are ahead of her in the minds of the USFSA. She really needs to rock an LP to show everyone that she could be #2.

    I really don't know about Czisny. We have obviously seen nothing from her. She doesn't strike me as someone that can debut at Nationals and psychologically deal with a tense competition filled with resurgent US ladies. She missed the deadline to compete at Golden Spin in Zagreb to test drive her programs, so I really hope she can get to a competition and make it work by January. It's her only hope. Still, I hope to see her at Nationals skating competently. She will only add to the mix and drama.

    Also not being discussed is Zhang. After '12 Nationals and 4CC's, I thought she was on the road to somewhere. Last year, we were talking about how Zhang and Nagasu as peers started out together in the Jr. ranks, and that Nagasu lost her groove while Zhang got hers back. Less than one season later, the roles are reversed (again)! Does anyone think she'll come back by Nationals? I hope she's not injured or something!

    I also don't see any US Junior ladies being a menace at Senior nationals (Miller, Wang, Keiser, Cesario). There are a decent no. of US Senior ladies getting the job done that the Junior gals will be held back a little on PCS. I really want to see Cesario finally debut as a contender at Nationals. I want her to catch a break on the injury front!

    But, maybe none of the above will matter, because Flatt could come back and kick everyone's a$$ :p