U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. edonice

    edonice New Member

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    Her movements aren't as crisp and bright as they were in 2010, but they're way better than they were last season. Also, she's always been a late season skater.

    And PCS does tend to be awarded based on history. Take, for example, Gao's short program two weeks ago. Her PCS seemed to be awarded based on what the judges expected, not on what she did.
     
  2. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Reputation building is part of the sport. Gao was terrible on the GP last season so the international judges didn't expect anything from her. After she backed up her solid (yet underscored) SP with a solid FS, her scores went up. At TEB if she skates her SP strongly, I'd expect to see higher marks. If she goes to TEB and performs her SP from SA the exact same way she'll probably see a +3 or +4 increase to her score. It sucks but that's the way it is most of the time...
     
  3. peibeck

    peibeck Letting Poje be on top

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    Mirai's program was not exactly transition heavy, and I would not say this is in any way a great piece of choreography for her. However, she skated with much more attack and personality at CoC then at Finlandia, which is very good to see.
     
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  4. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai seemed happy with her score, which is good. To me, the scores don't matter for her as much right now. I think what's more important is that she get her attack and confidence back, so to speak. Wendy Olson seems like a fabulous coach for her that is bringing out her best, and I hope she continues to improve right on up to Nationals. Today's SP was already way better than her Finlandia SP, so that's nice to see.
     
  5. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

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    I thought Mirai was pretty fantastic, tbh. And this is coming from someone who doesn't normally enjoy 'sassy' programs - I thought she attacked the program with a great deal of zest, and everything she did out there just seemed so alive. Contrast her with Mao, who skated to somewhat similar music, but who I thought was pretty much reigned in throughout her performance except for during the footwork sequence. I don't see how Mirai could have performed any better save the UR jump combo.

    I'd have both Mao and Mirai ahead of Julia, who I thought was utterly without substance - she's still a very juniorish skater, showcasing her flexibility just to impress and whose jumps (to my mind, at least) look a bit off and not even that great.
     
  6. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I was highly impressed with Gao's improvements. She's lost the coltishness and the Yuna-be skating, and has matured into an elegant, graceful and very pretty skater. Mark and Peter are no doubt the change she needed. But isn't this her first semester at Harvard? Wow. Look what happened to Rachael's skating after only a couple months at Stanford. So doubly impressive that Gao has sort of reinvented herself and is skating better than ever.

    Nagasu is looking very determined this season. Her Finlandia was strong skating, which is nice to see. I have no idea how she lost second to Korpi there to be honest, unless there really is a five point SWP bonus.

    These two are pleasantly surprising me so far this season. I'd written them off after Nationals. Just goes to show you an inspired skater can achieve wonders.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  7. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Julia's SP is the perfect example of Russian nonsubstantive choreo. Her LP I think is exquisite though. It's funny how she's going through Sasha's greatest hits. I wouldn't be surprised if she did Romeo and Juliet next for Olys. (Or wait, did she already do that last season?) If so, it shall be Swan Lake for Olys. LOL
     
  8. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    She skated to Dark Eyes and R&J last season.

    I think Julia would be great if she had the right vehicle, but as of now both of her programs are very weak IMO. The final 25 seconds of her LP is the only part of her program where the choreography actually acknowledges the music. Despite her slightly more mature presentation, the rest of Julia's skating is very juniorish: jump, skate, jump, skate, jump, skate...oh and throw in 2 or 3 leg lifts.

    Somebody please get that child away from Morosov!
     
  9. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The judges are not impressed with Julia's artistry. She got really low PCS compared to the others. She definitely needs to figure out what she has to do differently to get higher PCS.
     
  10. change of edge

    change of edge New Member

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    Mirai skated what seemed to be a clean program, and then got massive underrotations and downgrades. I'm so upset for her. She only got credit for one triple. I think she really needed this medal at cup of china for her confidence and international reputation, especially since she doesn't have another GP assignment.
     
  11. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    The tech panel seemed very harsh, though. Even Mao was only credited with 3 clean triples, and Julia had some << and < as well. Mirai's got some work to do, but overall I'd say this competition was a positive one for her.
     
  12. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    Does Mirai actually lip? I recall her getting called for that a while ago but I don't think she actually takes off on an outside edge, just rolls back to the inside at the last moment.
     
  13. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    The 3t on the end of the 2ax was an obvious 1/2 turn underrotation even in real time. Most of her jumps were a bit grind-y and on the slow-mo replay were 1/4 turn cheats. The loops, however, both looked clean to me- they didn't slow-mo the 2nd on the video I watched but it didn't seem in real time to have anything wrong that I could see. If you watch Christina Gao's FS from Skate America to compare, Christina's jumps appear much more effortless and clean.
     
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Just looking in real time, I thought Mirai seemed to perform better overall than Korpi as Korpi popped two jumps and had problems on her three jump combo, although she appeared to land her 3/3 at the opening, and her music and costume are lovely, plus she probably gets points for how good she looks on the ice.

    I think Mirai has lovely costumes this season too. It's really too bad Mirai couldn't at least win the bronze. I don't like JLip's skating at all. Haven't seen Mao's performance yet but I heard she had problems with her jumps. Mirai seemed disappointed in the kiss 'n cry, but she gave a good effort. She should feel good about herself, and just work on the technical problems to ensure the judges can't ding her on edge calls and rotations and keep her down in the marks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  15. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I think some of Mirai's jumps have gotten worse under Olsen. She doesn't get as tight in the rotation as she used and for someone like Mirai the rotation position is key to fully rotating the jump. Olsen said in an interview that they were going to work on her rotation position after Finlandia, but it doesn't seem like they did much to it. And I wish they would go back to the three turn entrance on the flip. The mohawk entrance makes her "lip" look even worse I think. Her jumps were pretty close on rotation and it didn't seem like she was getting the same spring she normally gets on her jumps. The lutz, first flip, and second loop were all < worthy (which they did get) and the triple toe obviously was a << (since she didn't have a great landing on the axel). The second flip getting the < is a little :confused: to me. The rotation seemed fine.

    Either way though, it's good to see her emoting more. Out on the ice. I wish they would rework the last 20 seconds of her LP though. The choreography really doesn't fit the music.
     
  16. ambern024

    ambern024 New Member

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    I really wish Mirai could get with Rafael Arutunian. I think he woud be a great technical coach for her! He's there in California, but since she left Frank because of the driving distance I doubt she would want to drive to Lake Arrowhead. She's 19 years old though. If she wants to be a world champion she needs to do whatever it takes to have a coach as good as Frank or Frank himself. If you don't like the drive...you're 19 pack yourself up and move there. If you can't afford it then find a friend at the rink to stay with. I really think Mirai is a total package. I just wish she could get some consistancy to her and a coach that is going to be good for her technically.
     
  17. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    If US ladies continue the way they are I think things can go very well for US ladies at the end of the season. Finally there's a leader and someone who is skating well in the leader's shadow. Plus for once, both the Russians and Japanese ladies team are showing signs of vulnerability. These could add up to success at worlds -- but of course so many things can change from now till March...

    I hope Wagner will stay healthy and strong for the season!
     
  18. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    After Cup of China. Nagasu improves ever so slightly on her total score from Finlandia Trophy. Also, for those that missed the announcement, Rachael Flatt is out for the rest of the season.

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Ashley WAGNER (188.37), Skate America
    2. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
    3. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    4. Gracie GOLD (171.15), U.S. Classic
    5. Mirai NAGASU (163.46), Cup of China
    6. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb

    7. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
    10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
    12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

    13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
    16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
    17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul

    Japan Open (free skate only) scores: Ashley WAGNER (123.57); Agnes ZAWADZKI (89.95)

    Upcoming assignments:
    • Rostelecom Cup (Gracie GOLD, Agnes ZAWADZKI, Caroline ZHANG)
    • Trophee Eric Bompard (Christina GAO, Ashley WAGNER)
    • NHK Trophy (Alissa CZISNY, Agnes ZAWADZKI)
    • JGP Final (Leah KEISER, Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
     
  19. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

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    Yes, Mirai needs to get to a jump specialist. She still has that weird hooking thing on the landings of her jumps that plagued her years ago. Her jumps travel well and the height she gets on them seems okay - I'm still not sure why she's underrotating the landings. Otherwise, her LP is fairly decent - the music is pleasant enough, and I don't suppose we should expect her to be as exuberant as she was in the SP as that would be a bit repetitive.

    It's hard to feel excited about the podium at CoC - between the blandness of Korpi, the sheer flatness of Lipnitskaia (who is borderline frightful on some of her jumps and who, I swear, stuck her leg up whenever she had the opportunity), and a Mao whose technical capabilities have fallen far from where they were only two years ago, there wasn't much to delight in.

    I will say this, though - Zijun Li needs to get to a coaching team that can polish her up nicely; she is so pretty that she could be such a star in her native country.
     
  20. edonice

    edonice New Member

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    I'm pretty psyched about US Ladies skating right now. All it took was one determined skater - Ashley Wagner - and now the other top skaters are rising to the challenge.

    Mirai got dinged on underrotations at Cup of China, but I haven't seen her skate as determined as she did in a long time, particularly in the short program.

    Christina Gao is finally getting used to her long limbs, and looks so much more calm on the ice.

    And hopefully, having such strong skaters at the top already will take some of the pressure off of Gracie. She's so new to the Senior level, she shouldn't feel discouraged if it's ever overwhelming.

    Then again, maybe it's just that these skaters are getting older and more mature. They've been trading places on the Senior podium for so long that it's hard to remember that most of them are still under twenty.
     
  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, definitely. I had forgotten that Mirai is only 19, she's been under such a spotlight for six years. Winning U.S. Nats at age 15 seems to have been more of a burden than a boon.

    I wish her well, and its too bad she doesn't have another GP, but she should use her time effectively to prepare for Nationals.
     
  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Mirai's issues with URs are somewhat due to the body type she has now. And I don't mean this is a bashing way, to me at CoC she actually looked quite fit, she's just noticeably a sturdier build than most of the other female skaters competitive at this level. Triple jumps, especially ones like lutzes, flips, loops, are hard for women to do period. Mirai is strong and she gets good height on her jumps, but for some reason she just doesn't rotate fast enough in the air to get all the way around before landing. URs have always been an issue for her, and when she was younger I thought it was maybe due to her lacking power being so petite and skinny, then when she grew it got worse, until the time of the Olympics when she managed to clean up her jumps and get them around and not surprisingly, she did very well. But her body has definitely changed since the Olympics, she is by no means fat, and like I said I thought she appeared to be in good shape and quite muscular/toned, I think she just finally reached her adult body type which is probably around 10 pounds heavier than she was at the Olympics. I don't know if losing weight would help with the jumps, I don't think she needs to lose weight anyways, and I think now, even if she isn't quite at her fighting shape, that her new fighting shape would still be bigger than in 2010 just because she's a young woman now and not a 16 year old. But yeah, this is just what I wonder. Her technique seems solid and getting enough height is not the issue with her jumps, so that leaves rotational speed, and obviously it's easier to rotate faster when you are lighter, the key is to just not loose weight to the point where the quickness in rotation gained is not longer helpful due to the power lost.
     
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I just want to say that Mirai's scores belie what she put out on the ice. She went for all of her planned elements including a 3-3 in the SP and managed them w/o falls or step-outs. She looks fitter than ever and yes, there were UR's and downgrades, but I honestly haven't seen her skate w/ such attack since '11 4CC's. I also think her jumps will tighten a little more as the season progresses.

    Next week will be interesting - will Gracie focus better? Will Agnes get over the LP curse? Will Caroline finally move her scores up this season to the ranks of the top US ladies
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  24. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    But that's because of getting taught "quick fix" jumping technique which is not sustainable once you get your adult body.
     
  25. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I'm pretty sure Nagasu won the Senior National title at 14 y/o. She was maybe two months older than Tara when Tara won her US title.
     
  26. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Frank got rid of Mirai's hook landings, but now that she's not with him, they're back (although they're not as bad as they were under Charlene). I think it's really her rotation position and the way she goes up into the jump. She delays the rotation too much and on top of that she doesn't get into a fully tight back spin position, causing her to underrotate he jumps. The reason why her jumps were fully rotated back in 2009-2010 (even though her jumps were smaller then) was because they weren't delayed as much and she acheive a tight backspin position.

    As for Mao, I wonder if losing all that weight when her mother was sick had an impact on her power. Her jumps are not as high or big as they used to be and Mao hasn't really gained much of that weight back.
     
  27. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're right. Mirai was a few months away from turning 15 when she won her first Nationals title in 2008. Her birthday is in April.
     
  28. Mirai4life

    Mirai4life New Member

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    I'm really disgusted that Kiira girl won over Mirai, let alone Ying Zhang......... got a higher technical mark than Mirai -_____________-
    Yuck. Robbery. Disgusting. Rude technical callers n judges. Her second loop is NOT >> :shuffle:
     
  29. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps when Mirai Nagasu does her flips from an inside edge and lands five fully rotated triples in one program the way Korpi did, she will the get higher marks. :saint:
     
  30. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well, true to her Japanese heritage, Nagasu (and Murakami and even Asada) has caught the Nakano syndrome, performing visibly clean performances only to be disappointed in the K&C when most jumps got UR-ed/downgraded.

    I think Nagasu has gotten too broad to rotate quickly enough. It's always going to be at the mercy of the caller for her from now on. Some of the jumps at COC I think were border-line. With that kind of treatment internationally, the caller at Nationals will be hard pressed not to be strict on her too. Such a shame.