U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how anyone would know that someone coming for a short-term stay with a U.S. passport was required to have that visa. Are athletes on a watch iist at immigration? Or do they simply not get paid if they don't have the visa?

    Unless you have access to her medical information, you have no way of telling when she should have made the determination. The fact of the matter is that she did withdraw, and in enough time for the Japanese Federation to pick a replacement skater who could go to the local Japanese consulate or embassy and get that pesky visa if need be. (Of course, whether this actually happens remains to be seen.)

    I wish other skaters who know they aren't fully fit to compete would withdraw early enough to let someone replace them.
  2. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate New Member

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    I wish other skaters who know they aren't fully fit to compete would withdraw early enough to let someone replace them.


    Absolutely. It is also too bad there are not more opportunities for skating so they didn't feel intense pressure to skate unwell.
  3. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    JMO, but it would be kind of unfair to give Alissa an international assignment after she withdrew from NHK.
  4. edonice

    edonice New Member

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    Wow! This is a really thoughtful interview by Mirai.

    This, especially: Your last season was not really the best one you have had. Why did last season not go that well for you?

    I would like to blame it on the obvious distractions, but when I get down to it and dig deeply, I feel I just was not me last season and it was all wrong. I did not train the way I should have trained and took one step back from my A-game the year before.
  5. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    According to what was posted above, she isn't really looking for one. She says a local competition would be just fine. (I suppose something in Windsor, Ont. would be both international and local for her.)

    It escapes me why people persist on talking about something would be unfair when it isn't even an issue.
  6. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Well if we waited until everything was confirmed, think of all the whining moments that would be forever wasted! ;)
  7. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    Certainly they can pass the immigration, but they can't compete. Organizers require it. It is organizer's responsibility.
  8. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Nationals is TWO MONTHS AWAY. Plenty of time to heal some more and get the programs in front of some judges somewhere.
  9. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I wasn't really trying to complain. I wrote my post in response to the comments about Alissa maybe getting Golden Spin. I know Alissa doesn't care, she just wants to compete and that's totally fine. But I still believe that giving someone who withdraws from one international assignment another international assignment to make up for it isn't fair, and that's my belief whether it's Alissa or anyone else.
  10. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link! Good interview and it's great that Mirai states she 'dug deep' and admitted her issues last season weren't just because of distance issues to Frank's rink. Hopefully she'll only move upward as this season goes on. :)
  11. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Ashley is up another notch in my books. Bigger on all three jumps compared to Skate America, and smoother skating and movements. All combined with better attack/expression making for a kick-ass short program.
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    And Gao without a clean short falls back into the mediocre scoring range :(. Her performance was actually nice, I thought she deserved more than 52, even with the step out on the 3t. Skating in the first group tomorrow could also hurt her PCS. I'm really pulling for her to make the GPF! Well, at least she can go out and skate with nothing to lose tomorrow!
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Re-posting from the TEB forum in Kiss and Cry:
    Gao (52.55, 7th) is within 3 points of 4th and 6 points of 3rd so she definitely shouldn't be counted out.
  14. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to Ashley for winning her second grand prix!
  15. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    More importantly for Wagner and Gao to be clean in the free AGAIN.
  16. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Judging by the scores on the ISU website, Ashley kicked some major a$$, breaking 190 pts.
  17. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I can say is that Ashley's team needs to work on her spin levels.
  18. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Apparently, Ashley is the first US woman to win two GPs in the same season since Sasha Cohen in 2003. USFS posted that on twitter. Yay Ashley!

    Agree about spin levels...she did get better levels in her SP, but she definitely needs to get those up because, even if she has the highest scores, she's still missing points she should logically get.
  19. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Yea she is missing out on those extra levels on the spins :( could have been even higher. Also, does John Nicks make his skaters think they are sick all the time so they have something else to think about? (cough shingles)
  20. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    If you didn't see the program she was just a little bit short on her camel variation in her combo spin. Therefore she didn't get the variation and lost the change of edge since she didn't hold the inside edge portion long enough. That was the two levels on her combo spin lost. On her layback she lost one level due to the first position being short a half rotation from 8. And she seems to have ditched the jump in her flying sit, therefore it can only be level 3. Overall the spins need some polish but her skating heavily reminisced of Kwan...landing jump after jump without a bit of hesitation or doubt.
  21. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well the new rules for the season only allow the 8 rev feature to be counted once - the first time it is attempted - so if she wants to use it for her layback, she can't use it for her deathdrop. And the jump within the spin feature doesn't work well for her deathdrop so until she could work something out, level 3 is what she has to settle for the deathdrop if she wants to keep up the quality. The level on the combination spin depends too much on whether she is running out of time, in both the short and the free. If not, she would do an outside camel as her 4th feature.
  22. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I just like seeing Ashley so confident! The spins have to be the next thing they work on...that and getting the 2a-3t consistent (it looks like she landed a 2a-2t today?). And yes, a triple-triple. But in the order I mentioned.

    Does Nicks have anyone to recommend to his skaters for spins? Hill was so good at getting her spins under control.
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Post-FS press conference excerpts from the TEB forum in Kiss and Cry:
    Very impressive 6-triple FS performances by both Ashley and Christina in Paris today - kudos to them! :)

    ETA: Unfortunately for Christina, she is behind Elizaveta Tuktamysheva on the 22-point (13+9) tiebreaker in the GP Final qualification standings with NHK Trophy to go - her 2 GP competition total score is 338.96 to Liza's 347.62.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    So basically after TEB it looks like US Nats is Ashley's to lose and she might not need a 3-3 or 2a-3t to win (or if she does go for them, can maybe afford some other mistakes). Also Gao's score here with a clean skate combined with last week's results make me think Gold is likely to be the 2nd girl on the World team, as for whatever reason, and whether deserved or not, she seems to have a slight PCS edge over Gao and Zawadzki, which, combined with her more ambitious content, explain why she was able to score higher than those two with more mistakes. I mean, Zawadzki got 106 for a FS with really only two errors skating in the final flight, and Gao with a clean skate in the second warmup got 112, the same as Gracie in Russia with all those mistakes she made. I do think which group you skate in makes a difference (to me, Gao's skate here was basically as good as it was at SA, where it scored 5 points higher, and Gracie's FS at COR was not all that much better than her one at SC, yet scored 13 points higher when I would have maybe put it at around 5 points higher), but as for now, it does seem that Gracie is heavy edge, especially with her SP content as if she can deliver a good SP and make the final flight at Worlds, that should help her stay afloat in FS scores should she make mistakes compared to Zawadzki or Gao who could, with a SP with mistakes, potentially fall out of even the penultimate group and might only make the penultimate group anyways even with a clean SP. I guess we'll see what happens at Nationals. If Gao and/or Zawadzki somehow manage to make the GPF though, that could help their cases. As for Mirai I'm putting her behind Gao and Zawadzki for now but NHK results (and again, should she somehow make a birth to the GPF) could alter that.

    I think the best Czisny can hope for at this point is an outside shot at the 4CCs team.
  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    It's funny you should bring up Kwan. IDK if it's body type or what, but whatever it is in combo w/ Ashley's current consistency, plus the way she approaches jumps and spins reminds me a lot of the Kween.

    Also, congrats to Gao. It sounds like she delivered another great LP. Any chance of her getting in the GPF??? ETA - I saw upthread that Tuk has her beat on the tiebreak ...
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Besides Wagner (30) and Korpi (26), the other 4 qualifiers are likely to be Lipnitskaia (24), Tuktamysheva (22) plus Asada (15) and Suzuki (13) at NHK Trophy next week unless, for example, Zawadzki (11) can be 2nd or higher and/or Nagasu (9) can win (or she can score 184.17+ total in winning silver).
  27. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Kudos to Ashley. She skated with such determination and confidence at TEB. I love the way she's pacing herself this season. She's got wonderful programs and the whole package too, not to mention a great coach! They are spot-on with the strategy re jumps and jump-layout. I really don't care about all the over-emphasis on jumps like they are the end-all and be-all in this sport. IMO, it's important to maintain a harmonious balance and that's what Ashley exhibits in spades, along with hard-won maturity and grit. She'll add more technical difficulty when and if she's ready and the timing is right. What Ashley is doing right now technically is stellar and admirable -- proven by her marks. The over-focus on jump difficulty by some fans to me is a result of being jaded by 3/3s and baby ballerinas. Triple/ triples alone do not make great skating.

    Gracie is quite wonderful, but I think she still needs time to grow in artistry. However, I'm sure that because Gracie has more impressive jumps than Christina, the edge will be given to Gracie should both Gracie and Christina perform to their capabilities at Nationals. At this point, if Christina performs as well at Nationals as she did at SA and in the fp at TEB, I prefer her skating over Gracie's, but they are both enjoyable to watch and extremely talented. I am enjoying watching Agnes and Mirai this season too. It's a shame there are only two spots available for 2013 Worlds. Whoever goes to Worlds among the ladies really need to bring back 3 spots for next season's Worlds and Olympics.
  28. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to Ashley on winning her second GP gold of the season in Paris! :cheer2:

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Ashley WAGNER (190.63), Trophee Eric Bompard
    2. Gracie GOLD (175.03), Rostelecom Cup
    3. Christina GAO (174.25), Skate America
    4. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    5. Mirai NAGASU (163.46), Cup of China
    6. Angela WANG (162.65), JGP Zagreb

    7. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    8. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    9. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
    10. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid
    11. Caroline ZHANG (149.87), Skate Canada
    12. Barbie LONG (147.19), JGP Bled

    13. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    14. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    15. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
    16. Rachael FLATT (136.09), Skate America out for rest of season
    17. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul


    Upcoming assignments:
    • NHK Trophy (Mirai NAGASU, Agnes ZAWADZKI)
    • JGP Final (Leah KEISER, Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
    • GP Final (Ashley WAGNER)
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. The chart is helpful in discerning where American ladies stand.

    The following scores don't count for purposes of your chart, but Vanessa Lam scored 177.73 at her Sectionals competition last week, Samantha scored 163.53, and Ashley Cain scored 161.49. I think at least Vanessa's and Ashley Cain's scores show improvement/progress over their international scores listed above from earlier in the season (although I realize comparing domestic to international scores is apples to oranges).

    I really hope Agnes and Mirai do well at NHK. Especially Mirai! I would like her to realize her potential.

    BTW, isn't Wagner's score the highest international CoP score for a US lady ever? Mirai had around 190 pts. in Vancouver in 2010 and 189 pts. at '11 4CC's, and perhaps Sasha Cohen scored somewhere around that no. at her best in the last decade ...

    The competition at Nats will be quite intense!
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ITA, and thanks for pointing out Ashley Cain's and Vanessa's recent Sectionals scores, because I think those marks likely provide a better picture of where they might place among the top finishers at Nationals. There is probably a greater correlation between Sectionals and Nationals scores than there would be between International and Nationals scores, particularly for Cain and Lam.

    Nationals is generally always exciting, but there is sure to be a bit more buzz and excitement in the ladies event in January, than there has been in recent years. :)
  31. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    For score buffs...

    ISU Personal Best Total Scores - U.S. Ladies in the current top 50: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/pbslto.htm
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  32. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    No, but her score is the highest for this year.
  33. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Jean-Christophe Berlot spoke with Ashley before her free skate at TEB: Bringing the drama: Wagner in a class of her own
    Excerpt:
  34. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Ashley's spins looked strong to me in France. I do not understand the loss of levels on the FSSp and LSp. To me, they seemed like clear level fours. The combination spin at the end was rushed..she didn't hold the forward camel variation long enough so I can see the loss of the level there, The caller at this competition was pretty tough.
  35. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Samson and Delilah is one of my favorite pieces. There is such raw sexuality and exhibitionism in it. Maybe Ashley doesn't capture that, but the final footwork sequence shows she or her choreographer knows what it is all about. For a couple of years Vladimir Kotin ended his programs with S and D. And he skated with D and A. Very very sexy. I guess since Ashley is a Nicks student she wouldn't go all out, but she's doing almost enough, I just wish she had more UUMPH in that final step sequence. The crowd is applauding, give them more.

    My first skate crush was Vladimir Kotin. Please don't tell me he is a vodka drinking lush. He was so sexy back in the 80s. But I guess so was I...
  36. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    If there's one remaining weakness, though, it's definitely her spins. Not that she has bad spins--at all--but she could have more consistent spins. She should not wind up in a time crunch and miss levels because she misses half a rotation (obviously, a variety of factors were at play).
  37. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    Someone noted that she already used the (8?) revolution feature in her FSSp and it can only be used once, so she lost a level on the LSp. I don't think she has enough features on her FSSp, as a lot of people who are doing FSSp are doing what she does (death drop, two difficult variations) but with a flying change between the change of positions.
  38. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    No. Sorry. Not gonna happen. I would love to see Alissa there, but you've got to be realistic. How many skaters show up only for nationals, after surgery, and do just awesome? It's hard enough when you are healthy. Evan, Johnny, Sasha, Michelle, ALL had problems with this.

    I predicted months ago that she would not be ready for NHK because recovery from this surgery is hellacious. Lipinski claims to have been doing triples within two weeks. She's either superhuman or full of it. For the mere mortals, it's not possible.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  39. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    A lot of it with Alissa is mental, too, moreso than a lot of other skaters. She may have just as hard a time recovering from this surgery physically as she does emotionally. She left the ice on a really disastrous note, and she may be having mental consistency problems as she tries to get back into competition.

    And I don't intend to be a computer psychologist. What I mean is that Alissa isn't known for her mental solidity.
  40. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    If anything, it isn't just the spins. It's the whole final segment. The music is so tight and she always seems to be in such a rush that her circular steps doesn't come close to the boards, her choreographic sequence doesn't cover enough ice, she often has to skip the forward spiral and split jump that follow her Charlotte at the end, and again the rush on the final spin. It's a lot of points on the table.