U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I thought she was going for a 2A-3T at first too, but then her planned elements sheet at Nationals said that she was only going to do a 2A-2T.
  2. used2skate

    used2skate New Member

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    Courcheval was very high altitude. All the scores were low in Mens and Ladies due to the uncharecteristic amount of falls. It took it's toll on most of them!
  3. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so the US ladies were a bit disappointing in Courchevel. I'm not surprised about Cain's jump struggles at all (but kudos to her for landing two nice triples after a VERY hard fall!) Ashley a very nice skater to watch. She's mature and elegant with great skating skills and beautifully long lines but she has to work on making the jumps more consistent or she'll never find herself on any podium. Verdict: No further JGP assignments this fall.

    Vanessa Lam's struggles were a bit more surprising. I'm beginning to wonder if she peaked at the Hidden Valley Open this year. I like her FS a lot, but it was littered with errors this time. I'm kind of shocked because she was doing/scoring so well this summer, but it happens. It's a shame she missed that last 2A because the fall + lack of the second 2A were what cost her the bronze. If she had won the bronze I would say go ahead and reassign her, but she didn't, and so I think she should not be reassigned yet. We have to wait until our medal contenders at the next events (Hicks, Wang, Cesario, Miller, Keiser) skate before we make a decision about Lam. If the majority of them perform poorly, she could find herself with a second assignment, but if the majority of them perform well (i.e. medal) then she's out.
  4. skfan

    skfan New Member

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    i can only accept giving vlam or any of the other already-assigned ladies a 2nd IF barbie, mariah, polina already have been assigned to one JGP each.

    IMO if none of the presumed contenders skate and place well, none of them should get a second assignment. odds are some will place well and earn 2nd assignment, but why should USFS assign a 2nd to vanessa just because the other 'contenders' also fail to live up to expectations? have we run out of JGP eligible ladies already?


    also, i don't understand why cain had such an advantage over lam in courchevel LP PCS. neither cain nor lam had especially attractive posture. cain's posture has gotten so much more horizontal in the last couple of years--it is disappointing to see. i also think lam's LP had more variations in speed, mood, more interesting choreography, and lam expressed the character of her program better. lam didn't have as many disruptive falls as cain, either.

    look, i recognize that lam has improved her presentation tremendously from last season, and she didn't exactly bomb her first JGP, but the JGP pool in the US is deep. why should any skater receive 2 even if she didn't medal? because she was a pre-season favorite? :lol: are there so many JGP spots to go around that we don't have enough JGP eligible ladies to receive them? :lol:


    polina edmunds, mariah bell, barbie long all deserve a shot at a first JGP more than any non-medaling contender deserve a shot at *two.* unless USFS have already put out the word that any JGP lady who scores more than say, 110 in a JGP LP (62 TES, or whatever) will get a second JGP regardless of where she finishes.
  5. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    ITA!
  6. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Champs Camp article covering the rest of the ladies there -- Nagasu, Gold, Flatt, Zhang, and Czisny: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120827&content_id=37418144&vkey=ice_news

    Wendy Olson is Nagasu's primary coach with Amy Evidente assisting on "off-ice work and nutrition planning"; her programs were choreographed by Susan Austin (who choreographed her 2006-07 Junior programs) "with Bebe Liang assisting with the footwork sequences."
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  7. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sylvia - interesting read

    Nagasu is solving a big problem of hers by getting a lot more training time (snip of the article - bold mine)

    Even more interesting to me was Flatt. It sounds like sleep and scheduling were a big impediment to her last season which she is solving (snip - bold mine) -

    Some interesting strategy jump-wise for Zhang. She'll be adding the 3sal! AS well as keeping the 3l-3l (snip - bold mine) -

    Par for the course for Gracie.

    I wish them all well
  8. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that Flatt is admitting that it was too much last year. That schedule was absolutely brutal, but it was all butterflies and unicorns and rah, rah Stanford from her.
  9. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    (((Caroline's back)))

    thought elite skaters all warm up before skating?
  10. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper New Member

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    Injuries that were mentioned:
    Flatt....
    "Flatt took time off after the U.S. championships to heal up from some nagging injuries, including tendonitis in both ankles to the point where, as she said, "I could hardly stand to be in my skates for more than five minutes, and, obviously, training for five minutes a day doesn't work." Reconstructed boots helped solve the problem."


    Zhang....
    "Ironically, it's Zhang's spins -- including her famous "pearl" spin -- that are causing some challenges."
    "She has had some back issues -- she has some beautiful new spins in the program -- but we might take a few positions out to save her back a little bit here [at Champs Camp]. We definitely want everything in for Oberstdorf; we're going to push hard for that one."

    And, of course, Czisny...
    "I'm at week 11 [after surgery]. I get back on the ice next week," Czisny said. "Last week I just started doing things like ballet, running and agility stuff. Two weeks ago I started stretching again. It's coming back fast, [but] it's still a long process. I just have to make sure I don't push anything ... We'll start with figures, stroking and spins, and jumping after that."
  11. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    the amount of info on her education has always been a bit too much, honestly. i mean, going to school should be a private matter. it's part of her private life...unless she is, say, a huge celebrity or a famous scholar. as a skating follower, i'm interested in what skaters do inside a rink, not in "her struggles to balance education and skating".
  12. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Other than the fact that she happens to be going to an elite university, Flatt isn't really much different from her contemporaries -- and not just skaters. Young people today share a lot -- too much, if you ask me -- about their private life in very public forums -- Tweets, blogs, home pages, and, in the case of athletes like Flatt, media interviews. Unless their parents and teachers (and coaches) impress upon them the risks of disclosing so much about oneself to the public, it isn't going to stop. The media certainly aren't going to shy away from publishing personal details celebrities reveal in interviews.
  13. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I'm from a similar program and I know what it's like. I knew she would burn herself out...I was wondering how in the world she was able to handle it all...it's just way, way too much for ANYONE and I don't care who you are.

    That said, a BIG part of the college adjustment process is figuring out how much of a workload you can reasonably handle. Common to think you can "do it all", and then realize there are only so many hours in the day...
  14. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper New Member

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    What detail(s) is Flatt divulging? Other than she was trying to manage the Bay Area commute, class work, and skating? Again, you have to keep in mind that the questions come from the author of the article, and the interviewee provides the answers. Not all that different than Mirai talking about her commute 2x a day with her mom to work with Frank, or her art classes. Honestly, I think it is nice to hear about the other side of the skaters lives...provides some depth to their lives; it paints a more complete picture. If all I ever heard from a skater was about what goes on in a rink, it makes for a rather boring story. It is just that the skaters who attend school, or work to cover their training costs, DO have more on their plates. And, I think, as an observer, helps us to understand just what these athletes have to juggle to make it all work. Very few skaters have the capacity to support themselves and their training thru skating shows/exhibitions/tours/endorsements, etc. I don't need or even want to know every detail about these young adults lives...but to know that they have interests or lives away from the ice ...it could even be their volunteer work, or their pets...makes them more "real", more relatable, less 2-dimensional. I don't think Flatt (or any of the other skaters for that matter) were divulging state secrets. Yup, maybe the media focuses too much on Flatt's academic life. That isn't her fault. It's an easy question, and to me, demonstrates a fairly small canvas the interviewer is painting. ;) And, I am also glad that she admitted that it was alot for her to juggle her freshman year. That first year at university is tough for any student. But, she managed to come out of it, with a new perspective, learned a few things, and is making adjustments. As is Mirai. She has made huge changes...leaving Frank, working with a different coaching team, she attended classes this summer. And, also learned that commuting those sorts of hours are difficult at best. They all have to learn to make adjustments. That's part of growing up. :)
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  15. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I'm excited to see Gold try the 3F-3S sequence, very cool. But I wonder what will be her LP layout, and how she'll use this to her benefit in terms of racking up points.

    I love Rachael's Firebird, I'm glad she's keeping it.

    Cool to see Bebe will be doing choreo for Mirai.
  16. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Going by her FS at Skate Detroit, Gracie's planned jumping passes are:

    3Lz+3T
    3F+3S SEQ
    2A
    3L
    2A+2T*
    3Lz*
    3F*

    ETA: :duh: Yes, the 1/2 loop counts as a "1L" and is her 3-jump combo.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  18. ainouta

    ainouta Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing it will be 3F+1Lo+3S; it doesn't really make sense otherwise.
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Then, will Gracie's 3F+1L+3S count as a 3 jump combo? I don't know the math, but if it's a 3 jump combo, will having it be worth the front-loading of her current program? She does 5 triples before the 2 minute mark according to the layout as described above ...
  20. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Those first two combinations are so huge points-wise, that it probably won't matter a whole lot. Besides, I'm not sure if she could do them after the halfway mark, as they take an incredible amount of stamina.

    The 3L has also been a problem jump for her, especially last season, so I can see why she would want to get it out of the way relatively early on in the program.
  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    What's nice about the 1 foot single loop is it allows her to do - effectively - 2 triple triples without repeating the toe as one of her two "repeating" triples. Repeating the lutz and flip, in the bonus time, no less, should boost her score. I can't remember her jump layout from last year, but I think she was repeating the 3toe.
  22. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, last year Gracie was doing 3F+3T in the short, and 3Lz+3T & 2A+3T in the long.
  23. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't thinking specifically of that article.

    In the past, Flatt or someone on her behalf has revealed such things as her grades and the fact that her parents were selling their house. Why either of these things should be grist for the mill of public inquisitiveness escapes me. Beyond that, once you put things out about yourself on the Internet or other media, you can't really take them back, and you forfeit your privacy.

    And, from my point of view, it doesn't matter that Flatt has earned good grades or that her parents are apparently comfortably well off. It just isn't something that I think a young person should be broadcasting to the world.
    Simone411 and (deleted member) like this.
  24. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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  25. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I am guessing Gold can easily do the 2axel3toe if the 3/3 became a 3/2. And if the 3/1/3 became a 3/1/2, the next pass, a 2axel, can be turned into a 3sal.

    Very glad Zhang is bringing back the 3sal. Despite what she said, it actually was one of her more reliable jumps during her dark years. Plus it means she will be doing 1 less 2axel. Would love her to bring back the 3toe too, even if it means she needs to swap out the 3lutz.
  26. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Another bonus to this layout is that if Gracie is unable to do the 3toe after the first lutz, she has an opportunity to stick it onto one of her two 2a's. We know she can do 2a/3t with ease...I don't think she missed that combo even once last season.
  27. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    Post deleted.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  28. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  30. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Me, too. But I have a feeling she's not going to replace a 2A with it, but rather include a 3R-3R, two 2A's, and a 3S (plus two 3F's, and a 3Z). If she somehow missed the 3-3 and turned it into 3R-2R, I think she would replace the 3S with a 3R, and still keep the two 2A's. I doubt she'd ever bring back a solo 3T, she hasn't done that for six years now! Maybe it'll come back as 3F-3T next season, if her jump layout works out this season. It'd be great for her to peak technically for Sochi.

    I hope she's doing some kind of core strengthening like yoga or pilates --worried about her back. :( Looking forward to her new spin positions though! Haven't seen any new spins from her for a few years now!
  31. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, II, vii, 65 :)
  32. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    I did a quick calculation of Gracie's jump BV between last year and this year:

    JUNIOR
    3Z-3T 10.10
    2A-3T 7.40
    3L 5.10
    3F* 5.83
    2A-2T-2T* 6.71
    3Z* 6.60
    3S* 4.62
    TOTAL: 46.36

    SENIOR (WTT)

    3Z-3T 10.10
    2A-3T 7.40
    3L 5.10
    3F 5.3
    2A-2T-2T* 6.71
    3Z* 6.60
    3S* 4.62
    TOTAL: 45.83

    THIS YEAR SENIOR
    3Z-3T 10.10
    3F-1L-3S 10.0
    2A 3.3
    3L 5.10
    2A-2T* 5.17
    3Z* 6.60
    3F* 5.83
    TOTAL: 46.10

    Obviously, this year's layout is slightly less than last year's because fewer jumps are at the halfway point this year. But that is a reflection of the fact she's doing a senior-level program, which is 30 seconds longer. When you look at her planned layout at WTT, you can see that the 3F is no longer in the bonus portion.

    So when you compare the layouts at the same level (senior) the BV is slightly higher this year than her WTT layout.

    For some perspective, Ashley Wagner who had the highest BV in jumps in the FS at Worlds, had a jump BV of 44.81.

    Of course, I expect the BV of all the ladies to be higher if everyone acts on their planned 3-3s.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  33. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Anyone want to guess Mirai's layout?

    Based off glacier I would think:

    3Z/2T - 7.3
    2A/3T - 7.4
    3F - 5.3
    <<2 Minute Mark>>
    3Z - 6.6
    3L - 5.61 (how are these rounded?)
    2A - 3.63
    3L/2T/2L - 9.02 (the three jump combo might actually be the first pass with the lutz?)
  34. worldsnice12

    worldsnice12 New Member

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    I guess there are not much hope she will try a 3Z/3T again?Has anyone seen her practice this combo lately?With Wagner,Gold and Agnes doing 3/3 in their SP, it seems like Mirai would need one too to stay in the top 3 in the US..

    Anyway, I am over the moon that she went back to Austin for choreography and to Bebe for the footwork.Based on the programs I have seen so far (SP/LP/EX), she has a great package this year..Then again, she is always kind of a slow starter and I hope that she will be able to peak at Nationals.What a competition it will be :swoon:
  35. skfan

    skfan New Member

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    it's early yet. i'm not sure i'd count those 3-3 eggs before they hatch. :lol:

    maybe it's wishful thinking, but i think mirai is in a great position to make a run for the world team. i'm glad she's returned to austin for choreography. :)
  36. TheGirlCanSkate

    TheGirlCanSkate New Member

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    the amount of info on her education has always been a bit too much, honestly. i mean, going to school should be a private matter. it's part of her private life...unless she is, say, a huge celebrity or a famous scholar. as a skating follower, i'm interested in what skaters do inside a rink, not in "her struggles to balance education and skating".

    For most of the young girls who are skating, competing, and going to school, this information is something they really enjoy. My daughter and her friends all read the bios and love this information. They love to see that a skater loves chess or pizza or soccer, that they are going to a great school for some part of STEM. They identify with her as they are spending 12+hours at the rink weekly, in advanced classes, taking dance, chess, and an instrument.
  37. flipforsynchro

    flipforsynchro New Member

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    Courtney got silver, Angela got Bronze, Kiri is 5th
  38. brightphoton

    brightphoton New Member

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    This is first time in history that people have been able to share information so freely and widely, so of course young people are going to take advantage of it. However, people are also right to object to the casual attitude of sharing information. Adults post pictures of their children and teens post about their daily lives. It's harmless because most people don't have enough money to be worth going after, so usually the worst thing that happens is that someone undergoes some personal embarrassment. But you would think people would be a little more tight-lipped since we're working with a machine that silently archives everything we do.
  39. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    A little more tight lipped about "I enjoy school and do well"? Seems like much ado about nothing. :blah:
  40. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Angela Wang opened her LP w/ a 3z-3t-2t :eek:
    Courtney Hicks opened with a 3f-3t