U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    It's not the end of the world, but it will be very hard for her to make the Final now, especially with only 6 ladies qualifying.

    It wouldn't be such an issue if the U.S. didn't have such great depth in junior eligible ladies, but we do.
     
  2. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Lam hasn't medalled at her last 3 junior events (jgpf, junior world and this comp). I am not even a fan of Barbie Long, but I hope USFS gives her a chance. (I hope USFS gives every promising lady a chance.)
     
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    I don't believe peibeck has been following the "2012-13 U.S. JGP Assignment Predictions/Speculation/Discussion" thread as closely as some of us so we should ease up a little. :lol:

    Total scores of 130+ in U.S. summer competitions with published results; known international assignments and, now, first international results included:

    SENIOR
    173.29 Gracie Gold (Skate Detroit) - Salt Lake Sr B, 2 Grand Prix
    172.30 Vanessa Lam (Hidden Valley Open); 140.89, 4th at JGP France
    168.48 Hannah Miller (Skate Detroit) - JGP Austria
    168.42 Leah Keiser (All Year FSC comp.) - JGP Turkey
    167.36 Angela Wang (Colorado Championships, Jr.) - JGP Lake Placid
    158.23 Samantha Cesario (Liberty) - JGP Austria
    156.60 Mirai Nagasu (Glacier Falls) - 1 GP
    153.48 Agnes Zawadzki (Colorado Championships) - Salt Lake Sr B, 2 Grand Prix
    149.87 Caroline Zhang (Hidden Valley Open) - Nebelhorn Sr B, 2 Grand Prix
    146.25 Yasmin Siraj (Cranberry Open) - JGP alternate
    145.48 Christina Gao (Cranberry Open) - 2 Grand Prix
    145.10 Ashley Cain (Cannon Texas Open); 136.51, 5th at JGP France
    144.23 Courtney Hicks (L.A. Open) - JGP Lake Placid
    142.86 Joelle Forte (Liberty) - not in ISP
    139.24 Kiri Baga (Skate Milwaukee) - JGP Lake Placid
    138.87 Haley Dunne (Liberty) - not in ISP
    132.83 Nina Jiang (Cannon Texas Open) - JGP Turkey
    131.76 Carly Gold (Skate Milwaukee) - not in ISP
    130.77 Becky Bereswill (Skate Detroit) - not in ISP

    JUNIOR
    170.06 Polina Edmunds (Broadmoor Open combined final round scores) - JGP alternate
    157.93 Barbie Long (Broadmoor Open SP Only & FS qualifying scores added together) - JGP alternate
    153.03 Karen Chen (Glacier Falls) - not in ISP (too young)
    142.56 Maria Yang (Liberty) - not in ISP
    141.80 Mariah Bell (Glacier Falls) - JGP alternate
    134.05 Selena Zhao (Glacier Falls) - not in ISP
     
  4. skfan

    skfan Member

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    never mind.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  5. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    No, in fact, I have haven't followed the discussion at all since I am so busy with work during the summer.

    I didn't know Polina or Barbie didn't even have an assignment yet, so please spare the arrows. :lol:

    I guess I will have to create a Vanessa Lam voodoo doll as penance for being a bad skating fan now. :p
     
  6. skfan

    skfan Member

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  7. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I saw Ashley Cain skate in June, and she had a freak accident there during warmup and looked hurt afterwards. She fell on her triples during her skate. I hope this is not a recurring thing for her

    :D
     
  8. skfan

    skfan Member

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    ^yes, i remember you mentioning such a fall. i hope cain's skating well towards the end of the courchevel program means all is well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  9. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    If there's room to send her after Barbie and Polina get sent to an event and no one else places better than her, then I don't have a problem with it, but 4th place with a 140 score means her chances of qualifying for the JGPF very slim, so in that case, I think the spread the wealth approach makes more sense. Even if Barbie and Polina get sent to the last event, medal, and don't get a chance to receive a second event and a shot to qualify for the final, at least they'd get the experience, WR points, and a chance to go to JW this season.
     
  10. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Dornbush 2015!!!

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  11. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I thought she was going for a 2A-3T at first too, but then her planned elements sheet at Nationals said that she was only going to do a 2A-2T.
     
  12. used2skate

    used2skate New Member

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    Courcheval was very high altitude. All the scores were low in Mens and Ladies due to the uncharecteristic amount of falls. It took it's toll on most of them!
     
  13. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so the US ladies were a bit disappointing in Courchevel. I'm not surprised about Cain's jump struggles at all (but kudos to her for landing two nice triples after a VERY hard fall!) Ashley a very nice skater to watch. She's mature and elegant with great skating skills and beautifully long lines but she has to work on making the jumps more consistent or she'll never find herself on any podium. Verdict: No further JGP assignments this fall.

    Vanessa Lam's struggles were a bit more surprising. I'm beginning to wonder if she peaked at the Hidden Valley Open this year. I like her FS a lot, but it was littered with errors this time. I'm kind of shocked because she was doing/scoring so well this summer, but it happens. It's a shame she missed that last 2A because the fall + lack of the second 2A were what cost her the bronze. If she had won the bronze I would say go ahead and reassign her, but she didn't, and so I think she should not be reassigned yet. We have to wait until our medal contenders at the next events (Hicks, Wang, Cesario, Miller, Keiser) skate before we make a decision about Lam. If the majority of them perform poorly, she could find herself with a second assignment, but if the majority of them perform well (i.e. medal) then she's out.
     
  14. skfan

    skfan Member

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    i can only accept giving vlam or any of the other already-assigned ladies a 2nd IF barbie, mariah, polina already have been assigned to one JGP each.

    IMO if none of the presumed contenders skate and place well, none of them should get a second assignment. odds are some will place well and earn 2nd assignment, but why should USFS assign a 2nd to vanessa just because the other 'contenders' also fail to live up to expectations? have we run out of JGP eligible ladies already?


    also, i don't understand why cain had such an advantage over lam in courchevel LP PCS. neither cain nor lam had especially attractive posture. cain's posture has gotten so much more horizontal in the last couple of years--it is disappointing to see. i also think lam's LP had more variations in speed, mood, more interesting choreography, and lam expressed the character of her program better. lam didn't have as many disruptive falls as cain, either.

    look, i recognize that lam has improved her presentation tremendously from last season, and she didn't exactly bomb her first JGP, but the JGP pool in the US is deep. why should any skater receive 2 even if she didn't medal? because she was a pre-season favorite? :lol: are there so many JGP spots to go around that we don't have enough JGP eligible ladies to receive them? :lol:


    polina edmunds, mariah bell, barbie long all deserve a shot at a first JGP more than any non-medaling contender deserve a shot at *two.* unless USFS have already put out the word that any JGP lady who scores more than say, 110 in a JGP LP (62 TES, or whatever) will get a second JGP regardless of where she finishes.
     
  15. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    ITA!
     
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Champs Camp article covering the rest of the ladies there -- Nagasu, Gold, Flatt, Zhang, and Czisny: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120827&content_id=37418144&vkey=ice_news

    Wendy Olson is Nagasu's primary coach with Amy Evidente assisting on "off-ice work and nutrition planning"; her programs were choreographed by Susan Austin (who choreographed her 2006-07 Junior programs) "with Bebe Liang assisting with the footwork sequences."
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sylvia - interesting read

    Nagasu is solving a big problem of hers by getting a lot more training time (snip of the article - bold mine)

    Even more interesting to me was Flatt. It sounds like sleep and scheduling were a big impediment to her last season which she is solving (snip - bold mine) -

    Some interesting strategy jump-wise for Zhang. She'll be adding the 3sal! AS well as keeping the 3l-3l (snip - bold mine) -

    Par for the course for Gracie.

    I wish them all well
     
  18. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that Flatt is admitting that it was too much last year. That schedule was absolutely brutal, but it was all butterflies and unicorns and rah, rah Stanford from her.
     
  19. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    (((Caroline's back)))

    thought elite skaters all warm up before skating?
     
  20. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    Injuries that were mentioned:
    Flatt....
    "Flatt took time off after the U.S. championships to heal up from some nagging injuries, including tendonitis in both ankles to the point where, as she said, "I could hardly stand to be in my skates for more than five minutes, and, obviously, training for five minutes a day doesn't work." Reconstructed boots helped solve the problem."


    Zhang....
    "Ironically, it's Zhang's spins -- including her famous "pearl" spin -- that are causing some challenges."
    "She has had some back issues -- she has some beautiful new spins in the program -- but we might take a few positions out to save her back a little bit here [at Champs Camp]. We definitely want everything in for Oberstdorf; we're going to push hard for that one."

    And, of course, Czisny...
    "I'm at week 11 [after surgery]. I get back on the ice next week," Czisny said. "Last week I just started doing things like ballet, running and agility stuff. Two weeks ago I started stretching again. It's coming back fast, [but] it's still a long process. I just have to make sure I don't push anything ... We'll start with figures, stroking and spins, and jumping after that."
     
  21. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    the amount of info on her education has always been a bit too much, honestly. i mean, going to school should be a private matter. it's part of her private life...unless she is, say, a huge celebrity or a famous scholar. as a skating follower, i'm interested in what skaters do inside a rink, not in "her struggles to balance education and skating".
     
  22. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Other than the fact that she happens to be going to an elite university, Flatt isn't really much different from her contemporaries -- and not just skaters. Young people today share a lot -- too much, if you ask me -- about their private life in very public forums -- Tweets, blogs, home pages, and, in the case of athletes like Flatt, media interviews. Unless their parents and teachers (and coaches) impress upon them the risks of disclosing so much about oneself to the public, it isn't going to stop. The media certainly aren't going to shy away from publishing personal details celebrities reveal in interviews.
     
  23. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I'm from a similar program and I know what it's like. I knew she would burn herself out...I was wondering how in the world she was able to handle it all...it's just way, way too much for ANYONE and I don't care who you are.

    That said, a BIG part of the college adjustment process is figuring out how much of a workload you can reasonably handle. Common to think you can "do it all", and then realize there are only so many hours in the day...
     
  24. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    What detail(s) is Flatt divulging? Other than she was trying to manage the Bay Area commute, class work, and skating? Again, you have to keep in mind that the questions come from the author of the article, and the interviewee provides the answers. Not all that different than Mirai talking about her commute 2x a day with her mom to work with Frank, or her art classes. Honestly, I think it is nice to hear about the other side of the skaters lives...provides some depth to their lives; it paints a more complete picture. If all I ever heard from a skater was about what goes on in a rink, it makes for a rather boring story. It is just that the skaters who attend school, or work to cover their training costs, DO have more on their plates. And, I think, as an observer, helps us to understand just what these athletes have to juggle to make it all work. Very few skaters have the capacity to support themselves and their training thru skating shows/exhibitions/tours/endorsements, etc. I don't need or even want to know every detail about these young adults lives...but to know that they have interests or lives away from the ice ...it could even be their volunteer work, or their pets...makes them more "real", more relatable, less 2-dimensional. I don't think Flatt (or any of the other skaters for that matter) were divulging state secrets. Yup, maybe the media focuses too much on Flatt's academic life. That isn't her fault. It's an easy question, and to me, demonstrates a fairly small canvas the interviewer is painting. ;) And, I am also glad that she admitted that it was alot for her to juggle her freshman year. That first year at university is tough for any student. But, she managed to come out of it, with a new perspective, learned a few things, and is making adjustments. As is Mirai. She has made huge changes...leaving Frank, working with a different coaching team, she attended classes this summer. And, also learned that commuting those sorts of hours are difficult at best. They all have to learn to make adjustments. That's part of growing up. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  25. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I'm excited to see Gold try the 3F-3S sequence, very cool. But I wonder what will be her LP layout, and how she'll use this to her benefit in terms of racking up points.

    I love Rachael's Firebird, I'm glad she's keeping it.

    Cool to see Bebe will be doing choreo for Mirai.
     
  26. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Going by her FS at Skate Detroit, Gracie's planned jumping passes are:

    3Lz+3T
    3F+3S SEQ
    2A
    3L
    2A+2T*
    3Lz*
    3F*

    ETA: :duh: Yes, the 1/2 loop counts as a "1L" and is her 3-jump combo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  28. ainouta

    ainouta Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing it will be 3F+1Lo+3S; it doesn't really make sense otherwise.
     
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Then, will Gracie's 3F+1L+3S count as a 3 jump combo? I don't know the math, but if it's a 3 jump combo, will having it be worth the front-loading of her current program? She does 5 triples before the 2 minute mark according to the layout as described above ...
     
  30. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Those first two combinations are so huge points-wise, that it probably won't matter a whole lot. Besides, I'm not sure if she could do them after the halfway mark, as they take an incredible amount of stamina.

    The 3L has also been a problem jump for her, especially last season, so I can see why she would want to get it out of the way relatively early on in the program.