U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. peibeck

    peibeck Letting Poje be on top

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    I think all skaters have to find the motivation within themselves; so if they can't find inspiration within their own skating, I doubt they will have much success in just being inspired by someone else's success. In fact, I think looking too much to others may be a detriment. Look at the Russian Plushy clones, struggling in the shadow of Evgeni; look at the drought of American ladies after the Kwan/Cohen era. Inspiration is great, but it takes a lot more psychological strength to succeed.
     
  2. peibeck

    peibeck Letting Poje be on top

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    It's nice that Gracie is centered about the expectations and not (hopefully) putting too much pressure on herself.

    A small correction to the article that should be noted is that her family is from Springfield - in Illinois - not Missouri.
     
  3. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    She's from both actually! Originally from Springfield, Missouri, then her family moved to Springfield, Illinois before relocating to the Chicago area (I believe Arlington Heights?) to better accommodate the twins' training.
     
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    The Gold twins' first (I believe) USFS club was Jordan Valley FSC in Springfield, Missouri! :)
     
  5. peibeck

    peibeck Letting Poje be on top

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    :lol: The tales of two Springfields! The article suggested they family moved from Springfield (MO) 2 1/2 hours way to Chicago, which would be incorrect, however. Springfield, MO to Chicago is about a 9 hour drive.
     
  6. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I like Gracie's mentality and I really hope she's able to maintain it. She's untested as of yet. I really hope she's able to keep a cool head under the spotlight and not freak out.

    I'm still not on the bandwagon with her. I do think she's a gifted jumper but there are a lot of those in skating right now. Aside from her jumps, she's an average junior jumping bean making her debut on the GP. She's made improvements to her aspects of her skating since last season so that's a plus, but she still has a long way to go to catch up to the veterans.

    I wish her the best this week and hopefully she'll have a strong debut.
     
  7. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Haven't read the 26 pp. of this thread, just wanted to add my *live* skating impressions of Ashley, Christina, and Rachael at Skate America this past weekend (I attended all 3 days):

    Rachael brought me to tears with her Firebird FS. I have seen her skate live two times thus far (2010 SA & 2012 SA). As God is my witness, you must see her skate live to understand what I'm talking about. Such an emotional, joyful, dynamic skater in person. She set a mood and did not deviate from it. I misted up halfway through. Her aura is unlike any other skater I've ever seen. She glows from the inside out.

    Christina was absolutely simply P E R F E C T! Big high jumps, lithe, right on. Watch out world because she could easily take GG's place on the World Team. That's how good she is...

    Ashley, what to say, everything single thing about her screams C H A M P I O N!!!! Both on the ice and off. I saw it way back in 2008 (imho she should've won the title that year). She reminds me of Sasha Cohen in this way - fighters, they have what it takes, and they won't let go. Gorgeous to see!
     
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  8. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    People are amazing. The Michigan Skaters have Michigan stuff and reference Michigan all the time. And I'm pretty sure Emily Hughes had Harvard stuff her freshman year. And we heard about Bowling Green every 5 minutes when Alissa was there. But because it is Rachael it is now offensive? :blah: Let the girl enjoy her school spirit. I think loving your school is awesome (Go Blue! ;)).

    Rachael doesn't owe anything to anyone. She is making the commitment to skating that she is willing and able to make right now. As the 6th place finisher at Nationals last year, she earned her international assignments. If she doesn't skate that well this year, she won't earn any more. So stop pretending that Rachael is hurting you or taking something away from someone. She has every right to prioritize her life however she chooses and she doesn't have to retire just because fans on an internet message board don't like her choices. I'm sure Rachael has her own reasons for continuing to skate and she doesn't have to have them approved by FSU. She doesn't need to retire because people who didn't like her when she was winning still don't like her now that she isn't.
     
  9. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    I recall Emily wearing a Harvard shirt once. Alissa did not talk about Bowling Green, the broadcasters did. Can't blame that on the skater.

    What several of us pointed out was that Rachael was more interested in the Stanford cap than 1) her U.S. team jacket and 2) her dismal scores.

    School spirit is lovely and fine. At school. She skates for the U.S. not for Stanford. And quite frankly, if her parents have enough spare cash for her to skate as a hobby (because that is what it seems to be--as someone else said, others are on-ice more in two days than Rachael is in a week) perhaps they could be putting that money to better use.

    I also have a feeling that she does have her reasons and they are not entirely her own.
     
  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    This thread is making me hope that Flatt and Czisny finish first and second in either order at U.S. Nationals this season.
     
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  11. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I find the comments about parents' money interesting. You all do realize that MANY parents put more per year into their child's skating than Flatt's parents currently are, and many of those kids will never ever make it out of Regionals? How parents spend their money is IMHO, completely up to them. In my case, we base our decisions on how hard our children are working in a particular activity and how dedicated they are to it. Results don't even enter the equation.
     
  12. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    :confused:

    ummm like what? Donating it? LOL. Its their money they can do what they want with it. Rachel's skating probably does not break the bank for them.

    Seriously, that is a really silly comment. Maybe the money was specifically put away for Rachel's skating.
     
  13. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Now ubering Machida's hair

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    I personally think it is cute that Rachael is excited about her school, and putting on school gear.

    and for being interested in the jacked or not - I think people are reading WAY too much into it, maybe she was still hot? I notice lots of skaters don't put on their team jacket after their skate.
     
  14. minignome

    minignome New Member

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    Agree. Still don't get the bashing Rachel here, and the declarations that she should give up her spot, retire, USFS should change the assignment process, etc. make me :rolleyes:

    First off, given the lack of figure skating on US TV, Rachel is one of the more recognizable names in the sport for US ladies right now. She is not a household name by any means, but no current ladies figure skater is in the US. Since the 2010 Olympics, pretty much the only figure skating being shown on a standard US network are US Nationals, Skate America and World Championships -- and for World's since there have been no ladies medalists, the ladies coverage has been sparse. So, for a casual fan, the ladies skaters names they might recognize are Czisny, Wagner, Flatt, Nagasu. If you are trying to sell tickets in the Seattle area for Skate America to the casual fan, competitors they may have actually heard of are a draw regardless of how they actually compete-- it's that way in any sport. And getting butts in the seats matters -- yes the athlete they came to see might have had an off day or be on the downward side of their career but the fans in the seats could discover another one to follow.

    Secondly, Rachel EARNED a Grand Prix spot by placing 6th at Nationals. You can argue she was gifted, somebody was robbed, whatever, but the fact remains she placed 6th. Figure skating already has a problem with being perceived as a not a "real" sport because of the judging and politicking. If USFS starts down the path of throwing out results and awarding spots to athletes based on the perception of how they will compete, fitness, who needs promotion, etc, it will marginalize it further. Yes, there are a limited number of competitions and a limited number of spots at each but that is the same in any sport. Actual results should matter the most as to who gets the opportunities. As soon as you get into questioning an athletes commitment, fitness, priorities, potential and all those other nebulous things discussed here it becomes less like a sport and more like a beauty pageant. If I were a coach, I would much rather say to a skater, hey -- you want a Grand Prix spot, you work your butt off and skate well to get a top place at Nationals, then have to say hey -- you work your butt off and skate well to get a top place at Nationals, then I'll work on convincing the USFS powers that be that you are worthy of a selection.
     
  15. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Since this is a US ladies thread, I'm going to use it to wish Caroline and Gracie the best of luck at SC this weekend! :) go girls!

    Also, out of plain curiosity, have we heard anything from Team Alissa since they told us she was recovering from her surgery? Or any training updates from any kind of source? I really want to see her contending again, but I'm worried that she may push herself too hard/have any kind of classic Alissa meltdown/otherwise lose her mental game.
     
  16. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Team Czisny is keeping pretty mum from what I can see. She may or may not be ready, but I wouldn't expect much from her this season.
     
  17. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    She's injured.....How many days/week would you be skating if nursing an injury. Geeeeesh.
     
  18. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    The Stanford thing was cute at, say, US Nationals when people from her college came to cheer her on. But at every single competition? What other skater pulls out their college gear every time they enter the kiss and cry? I'm all for school spirit, but it's getting annoying. And this criticism has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we're talking about Rachael; it would be irritating for any skater from any school to do that constantly.

    You are right that it's Rachael's decision whether she takes the SA spot that was offered to her, and she doesn't "owe" it to anyone else. But when she's making excuses about school and injuries, basically stating how under-trained she is, and appears to no longer be invested in her skating, then she's going to lose some support from her fans. No one is saying that her future with skating is no longer her decision or that it requires approval from people posting on a forum. But as fans, we're free to talk about how disappointing it is to see a formerly great skater deteriorate so much without seeming to care.

    And FYI, plenty of the people criticizing Rachael now have said plenty of nice things about her in the past. It isn't just those who never liked her and will bash her every time they get the chance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  19. edonice

    edonice New Member

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    I get the feeling that Rachael really internalized Tom Z’s belief that hard work is what makes you a great skater. But that’s only true to a point, as she’s coming to realize. Sensitivity to music, a genuine sense of giving yourself to the crowd, the ability to get up and keep going when you’re crashing - are all things that the very best skaters have had to learn. For a while, I thought Rachael had escaped that painful growing period that most female skaters seem to go through in their mid to late teens. But here it is.

    Rachael’s had a really tough time of it ever since she started battling her injuries. She had that incredibly lost look during the Grand Prix series last year, as if she couldn’t quite believe what was happening to her, that her hard work WASN’T paying off.

    Maybe she’s now getting that fulfillment at college, hence the inflated college pride. I agree that it doesn’t really have a place in international competition (she’s representing the US, not Stanford), especially since her attendance at Stanford has no bearing whatsoever on how she’s judged. She’s not judged based on how well she skates in spite of her schoolwork, she’s judged based on how she skates, period.

    I can see why she feels more pride in her schoolwork than her skating right now, and why she might be making excuses for her subpar performances. I just wish she would own up to the fact that she’s not skating well without constantly justifying it.
     
  20. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Funny how the internet does that :D
     
  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    :lol: ... Fat chance. Been there, done that.

    Remain objective, don't identify. :lol:

    That said, ITA re the incessant belaboring re Rachael Flatt picked to skate at SA over Mirai and/ or any other U.S. lady other than Gao and Ashley who were there and wonder of wonders actually medaled (lost in the OTT Rachael chatter). Rachael being there apparently sucked for some who complain about Flatt's performances at SA, Flatt's love of everything Stanford, Flatt's parents' bucks, Flatt's injuries, Flatt's desire to keep skating, Flatt's careless attitude to not winning, etc., etc.

    Good luck at Stanford, and good luck with your skating, Rachael.
     
  22. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    There has been longstanding discussions about USFS not spreading out assignments to enough ladies that are separate from the Rachael discussions, and there are also discussions year after year about how Skate America host picks and JGPs should be decided. That discussion has nothing to do with Rachael. It just happened in the midst of a Rachael discussion but has happened numerous times elsewhere.

    Other federations have required a minimum score during summer competitions in order to get an international assignment, or some good summer showings for host pick selections. But since such a practice is not in place right now, Flatt got her assignment like another 6th place finisher.
     
  23. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Oh, I'm not objective. Definitely rooting for Ashley.
     
  24. MoreIce

    MoreIce Member

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    Aren't the skaters suppose to wear the jacket because it has the sponsor on it? I thought they were, and that is why I found it a bit disrespectful.
    I'm sure Stanford isn't throwing any money USFS's way.
     
  25. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    At least she isn't putting on a CCCP jacket. Johnny used to catch so much heat for doing that.
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    peibeck, I noticed the USA Today online article now reads: "Growing up in Springfield, Ill., ..."

    Gold was jumping well in the Skate Canada practices yesterday (based on what I saw of the live stream), landing 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T, and 3F+half loop+3S. Let's see what the SP brings later today!
     
  27. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^Did you get a chance to see Caroline? I'm wondering how she's doing...

    She didn't look too secure at her last competition so I'm hoping that was just a bad day and that she's gotten herself back to nationals/4CC form. It'd be great to see the American ladies continue the good skating Ashley and Christina started last week...
     
  28. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Hasn't there been chatter that Caroline is having back problems?

    Someone on Golden Skate noted that Caroline wasn't doing the Pearl Spin in her run-through, which I know in the past was her plan when she had back problems. BTW, that poster noted she kept falling on 3loop attempts but was landing the 3F-2T in her practice run-throughs.
     
  29. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Cue the hand-wringing....

    :watch:
     
  30. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Results are up...US girls are 8th and 9th. Caroline 52.97, Gracie 52.19...

    Apparently Caroline was clean but slow (no 3l-3l) and Gracie flubbed her 3-3 and fell on her 2A...

    *sigh*