U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I know she's struggled with shin splints in the past, and something like that can often be a long-term, nagging injury/condition that never really goes away or fully heals, so it could be that. But I haven't heard anything.
  2. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Oh, I thought it was 19 or under, not under 19. Thanks for the clarification!
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    If at her second JGP, Cesario had skated the great free skate like she did at her first JGP and gotten the same score, she would have had done just enough to win silver there and qualified herself for JGPF despite her poor short program.

    It's just bad luck with injuries for her, season after season. :(
  4. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is Cesario and Keiser needed to go 1 and 2 to push out Pogorilaya from the JGPF. If Cesario got second, Keiser would have been pushed out of the final.
  5. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I was just thinking about Yasmin and wondering what form she would be in. She's had consistency problems and I thought perhaps she'd get buried this season with the likes of Hannah Miller, Angela Wang, Samantha Cesario (pre-injury) and Leah Keiser doing quite well and moving towards the top.

    Obviously, this isn't an international event, but the fact that she stayed off her butt and landed 2 3z's is a positive sign for her.
  6. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Well-Known Member

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  7. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Another great article on Ashley.


    And regarding the infamous yellow dress: ;)

  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Yasmin Siraj had 1 jump (3T) called a fall in her New England Regional Senior Ladies FS, but otherwise it was a very good performance, I thought. Here are fan videos of Siraj at NE Regionals:
    "Seven Years in Tibet" FS (scored 101.85): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mREYtzU-Muk
    "Daphnis et Chloe" SP (54.99): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_tCxToClgg

    Re-posting from the U.S. Regionals thread in Kiss and Cry -
    Senior/Junior Ladies High Scores after 6 Regionals:
    168.05 Vanessa Lam, All Year FSC [SWP, SR]
    156.84* Yasmin Siraj, SC of Boston [NE, SR]
    150.93 Barbie Long, Illinois Valley FSC [UGL, JR]
    148.98* Kiri Baga, SC of Bloomington [UGL, SR]
    145.75* Becky Bereswill, Detroit SC [EGL, SR]
    144.97* Carly Gold, Wagon Wheel FSC [UGL, SR]
    144.60* Lauren Dinh, SC of New York [NA, SR]
    142.37* Chelsea Christopher, Winterhurst FSC [EGL, SR]
    132.96* Jessica Young, DuPage FSC [UGL, SR]
    130.88 Selena Zhao, Highland SC [NWP, JR]
    130.54 Jordan Bauth, Amherst SC [NA, SR]
    * indicates skater's highest known total score of the season so far
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  9. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I adore her SP! It's the same one from last year but she's added some really great transitions to it, especially the steps going into and coming out of her 2A...and the entrance to her combo spin. It's such a beautiful program...

    I've always loved Yasmin. She always has great music choices and wonderful choreography. I love her interpretation, expression and musicality. Even when the jumps don't work I still enjoy watching her skate b/c she performs so well. Both of those were really strong performances from her and she looks lovely...very beautiful costumes.
  10. jiggs

    jiggs New Member

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    I agree. Already loved the program last season but she seems to have grown more as an artist and performs it even more beautifully now. I really hope she can get her jumps a little bigger, I would love to see her break through and do well internationally!
  11. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    I hope the US ladies have strong skates this week at SA. Flatt and Gao especially - have such plates being at Stanford and Harvard. A lot of respect for their juggling these challenges. Obviously for those making the focus 100% to skating, that can make a difference, but still. Would love to see satisfied faces at the end of this week.
  12. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the scores and the clarification on Yasmin.

    Also, Vanessa did well at regionals w/ 168 pts. She really has to get consistent, though. This is the 2d year in a row where she gets great scores early in the season but flubs her more important international assignments.
  13. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's unfortunate in that she probably wants to compete on the GP next season, but her JGP this fall might be the only ISU event she competes in this season as there will be a lot of competition to make any of the JW, 4CC, or Worlds team, and her score of 140 is likely to be way outside of the top 25 SB scores list she'd need to get a garaunteed event, and her WS isn't so high either, and will drop lower if she doesn't compete in any other internationals this season, so those two factors combined would make it unlikely she'd get selected for an event, meaning her only hope would likely be a host pick at SA, which the selection for could potentially be competitive with more well known skaters like Flatt and Gao possibly in the mix depending on how they score this season and do at Nationals as well as someone like Samantha Cesario. I know her international PCS and GOE aren't that great but if she skated cleaner at her internationals her scores would still be significantly higher than her current SB which is unlikely to get her anything next season. Too bad.
  14. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I think Vanessa's only hope is at '13 Nats where she'll really have to outperform herself, unless there is some sort of Junior B event she could do.
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    A Junior B event wouldn't count as an ISU SB score. In any case, Lam is 17 and has one more year of ISU Junior age eligibility left - she may elect to return to the JGP next year, depending on what happens at Nationals. She's graduating from public high school in June 2013 (according to her Team USA bio) and is an excellent student with plans to go to college. I don't see any need for gloom and doom about her future, on ice or off. :)
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  16. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I like Ashley's version of the Red Violin and despite the small problem on her 3L, she was very strong in the SP today. I loved her 2A with the falling leaf! To control the landing edge and jump right up into the split...gorgeous!

    Christina looks like a new skater! She had the performance of the night for me and she was the only one who skated without an error. All of her jumps were clean, her spins are better positioned (especially the layback) and faster, and that program was just lovely! I see a lot of growth in her artistically. The program itself is just gorgeous and she really did a great job of hitting the accents and really feeling the music. I hope she delivers strongly tomorrow...I've always liked her and I'd really like to see her have a breakthrough year.

    Rachael looked lovely in her dress, hair and makeup. The program was very slow at the beginning. I like the attitude she was giving but it was sans energy until the end. The ending was really nice with the spread eagles and the ending position. Unfortunately her score is a very clear indication of where the judges want her to go...
  17. circuscandy

    circuscandy New Member

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    Rachael's dress was just beautiful.

    I agree that Christina had the performance of the night. Everyone around me in the crowd was gushing.
  18. krenseby

    krenseby New Member

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    Do you feel that the judges were not merely objectively evaluating her performance as skated, but also using the scores to indicate how they personally feel about her as a skater? I know this might sound like a silly question, but I am trying to understand the psychology of judging.
  19. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think the judges were just scoring Rachael for what she put out on the ice. She's never been a skater who could afford to make mistakes in the SP, and even when she was at her best, she needed her 3f-3t and 3lz just to stay afloat with the other top ladies. Now, she's not at her best, she has not accomplished much as of late so her PCS are not as strong as they once were and further hurt by skating early, she lightened up her content, and she made a mistake. The spins have never done her any favors or gotten her any GOEs, but she used to be able to get level 4s on most of them anyways but she didn't get the levels here, so honestly her score makes sense. PCS shouldn't be based on reputation but we all know they are, at least to a certain extent. So when Rachael was finishing 1st or 2nd at Nationals, winning JW, medaling at GPs, finishing 5th at Worlds - yeah her PCS were higher, but they've never been huge, low 7s maybe at best. So now for a good skate she'd maybe get mid-6s, this was a skate with errors and she skated first, so the high-5s aren't that surprising. She's never been a SP skater, her BV used to keep her afloat and make up for the lack of GOEs she got on her jumps and spins, and considering the reduced spots on the GP, with 3f-2t and 3lo as her planned content (which she didn't even manage here), it's to be expected she'd be at the bottom of the field. That's the standard of the GP.
  20. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  22. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I was shocked at how much Christina improved during the off-season. I was not expecting that at all considering she's juggling classes with skating. Her spins are much better than before and her artistry is not as dry as it once was.

    As for Rachael, I thought, considering her score that she skated extremely poorly, but she did okay. And when is she going to stop having problems with her tendons?

    I was expecting more from Ashley's program, but ehh, it's a nice start. I was never a fan of the Red Violin music anyways. Her spins, though are much improved from Japan Open. I wonder though if her team is going to tweak them so she can get the highest levels later.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  23. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Gao is much improved, that was a bit of a surprise...but remember, that was just the short program. The freeskate will tell the story.

    Flatt was OK jumpwise, but the rest of her skating has just deteriorated so. It would have made a nice gala program, as she got into the performance near the end, but for a competition I'd have expected more from a former Olympian, even one who is currently going to school.

    A LOT of "oomph" in Wagner's program I feel was lost through watching it on the computer screen. It felt so much more alive in person when I saw her perform it at the Weiss show. Watching it on Youtube I was like yeah, eh, ok, good start, but nothing spectacular. Foundation has been set though.
  24. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    She looks out of competitive shape. Her layback is essentially now an upright spin with an open free leg. The one good thing I'd say about her SP is that at least she didn't pick some classical music that has been heard a gazillion time before.

    The footwork didn't match the intensity of the music. The first 2/3 was ok, and she had some nice spins in there.
  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I imagine the judges, like many others, think she should just retire already. That definitely plays a part in their scores. Her quality of skating and performances are pretty mediocre at best these days anyway, so that makes it all the easier to score her as such.
  26. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Wagner's short program felt, well, short. Perhaps it was the conscious decision to backload the solo triple and the axel that made the first half relatively short of required elements. For the first minute, it was just the jump combo and choreography (which I like). The second half looked rush in comparison. Perhaps it was because she had to wait for the music, I felt the steps were rushed through and the final spin incomplete. She really could have a bigger lead if her spins were of higher level. Love the holding out of the jump combo landing and the split leap after the axel.

    Strategy wise - perhaps she should go for an easier 3/3 instead of waiting for the flip/toe to happen. Sotnikova was totally going to overtake her if not for the pop. As the leading US lady, she really should not have to rely on others' mistakes for the lead. I am not sure if she can get this kind of GOEs on the 3/2 outside of the US.
  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I have wondered if Ashley would be better off going for 3t-3t and 3f in the SP. Her 3lo is good but that's probably the jump she's most likely to 2ft, and 3f-3t might not happen consistently enough for it to be worth it, and the layout I mentioned above would have a higher BV than her current one when she does the 3-2 and we know she can rack up big GOEs on her flip! I don't doubt she could do a 3t-3t either.
  28. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I know it's just the short, but I think other college girls who are skating would love to know whatever secret that helps Gao keep skating at this level while going to college full time.
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well, Gao explained why she thinks it is working for her, in the link that Sylvia posted above (Lifeskate interview). Others have done it before successfully, including Dick Button, Debi Thomas, Paul Wylie, Matt Savoie (although Paul and Matt deferred full time studies to pursue the Olympics).

    Gao loves Boston, loves having the chance to forget about studies while in the rink, and to forget about skating while in school. Her new coaches are obviously working well for her too, and she's matured into such a lovely young lady. Her layback leg position is to die for. :)
  30. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Gao has only been in college for about 2-3 months prior to SA and is a freshman. Depending on what her major will be and what classes she will take in the future, I'm sure it could have an impact on her training as she continue to maintain this dual schedule. Flatt, for example, has Physic labs and probably also group projects for engineering classes, which eat up quite a chunk out of her days.
  31. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    But compare her with Emily Hughes when she was freshman, Gao still looks good, all things considered. I mean, for her to not only maintain her skating but skate one of her best shorts, as a full time freshman in college.
  32. edonice

    edonice New Member

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    Still, I'm tired of all the excuses from Flatt. In an interview in The Orange County Register, she talks about how school is her priority now, and that skating is taking the back seat, especially since tendonitis makes it difficult for her to train as hard as she'd like. I'm guessing that she's looking for excuses for her poor performances, but it's annoying to see her shrug off another lackluster, injury-laden performance when there are motivated young skaters who would love the opportunities she's been given.

    If she's truly injured and not skating/training at her best, she should do what other skaters (Michelle Kwan, Evan Lysacek) have done and given her place to a skater who's hungry and prepared for it. Placing last when you know you're unprepared is insulting to the work other skaters put in.

    Also, Gao is proving that you can attend an extremely high caliber university, adjust to a new rink and coaches, improve your skating, and handle it all with grace.
  33. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    I think Rachael has reached the point where she is indulging in an exceedingly expensive hobby. Her parents must have plenty of money to continue to fund it.
  34. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    My guess is this is the last GP assignment Flatt will ever be given. If she reaches the point she has to start qualifying for Nationals I wonder if she will continue skating, as at that point she will be clearly to the point of doing it just for the "love of it". She has already reached that point in reality, but she might well be deluded to that truth at this point.

    I hope Wagner and Gold can get the U.S 3 spots back at this years Worlds so Gao, Czisny, and others have a spot to fight for the 2014 Olympics.
  35. bek

    bek Guest

    I think the main difference between Gao/Flatt is talent/puberty.. I think Rachael's jumps were going long before Stanford. And that has to do something with puberty. Whereas Christina seems to have perfect figure skating body...I seem to recall Rachael started out part time in school and Gao is going at it full time.
  36. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think some of this is true. Rachael's achieved what she has in skating, and probably in school too, due to being a work horse. She's never been a naturally talented jumper and she's never had the ideal body for skating. So when she had time to train all the time and really keep her diet in check, she did well because she worked really really hard and was able to build up that consistency, plus school wasn't as hard for her. So now, she's in college where she has to travel farther to train, isn't training as much, and its harder to make sure you're eating properly and sleeping adequately to be in the best shape possible, her courses are harder for her and she admits to skating not being a top priority and being committed to having a normal college social life, so the result isn't surprising.

    Gao on the other hand has always been a very talented jumper. She's also always had the ideal skating body, and if I'm being perfectly honest, having filled out a bit since college has actually helped her skating in terms of power and posture, she used to seem very gangly and round-shouldered, almost too skinny, but no longer does. Plus we know she got a perfect math SAT, so she's obviously naturally smart. Mark and Peter are better coaches than Rachael's new coaches, and SCOB is a lot closer to Harvard is than the rink Rachael trains at. So for Christina, she's probably not feeling as much of time crunch, nor is feeling as much academic pressure because she hasn't started her major coursework or labs yet and is likely naturally smarter than Rachael anyways, which means she's probably getting enough sleep, and does not have to worry so much about what she's eating because she's naturally thin and the little weight she has put on has helped her skating and image on the ice. So it's very different. Christina seems like an overachiever too, but maybe not the same kind of work horse as Rachael, she used to get pretty visibly upset and frustrated when she didn't skate well so now that she's a Harvard student, there's less pressure put on her by herself, her coaches, and her fans so she seems to be enjoying her skating more. From the sounds of it, Christina also isn't as intent on having a typical college experience while insisting on continuing to skate like Rachael, who is in a sorority and regularly attends events like football games.
  37. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Gold's senior outings have been just mediocre. If she's the presumptive #1 or #2 spot, she really needs to start showing it IMHO. There are other talented skaters out there just as hungry as she is to go to Worlds this year.
  38. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD New Member

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    Looks like picking Christina might have been a bad decision for TEB. :) Great performance.
  39. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    :cheer: Ashley and Christina!
  40. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Congratulations to Ashley Wagner on her first GP gold & to Christina Gao on her first GP & senior international medal (silver) at Skate America! :)