Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 9, 2013.
My top 3 FDs so far: 1. Davis/White 2. Lynn/Logan 3. Parsons
The Parsonses' Twilight free dance is lovely. I also LOOOOVE the Gamelins' free dance. Not to be missed.
One of my new favourite teams this season so far are H/D .I 've only seen them once before doing their Titanic programme.I love their SD and FD .They are gorgeous together lovely edges and flow and great chemistry Are they a couple off ice as Madison said I love you before the SD ?Have they a good shot for a place against S/S and C/B ? I hope so.
Yes Maddie and Zach are a couple on and off the ice.
Yes, I think they have a shot for an Olympic berth against S/S and C/B. I haven't seen Shibs' programs yet, but much prefer Hubbell/Donahue's to Chock/Bates'. I heartily dislike the C/B FD. And it appears that H/D have improved a lot.
It's going to be heartbreaking no matter who gets left out. I wish we had 5 spots.
I am really looking forward to Skate America. We will get to see the improvements that have been made to D/W and H/D's programs and the debut of the Shibs. I think we will have a better handle on the "pecking order" of the US teams after this weekend. I love H/D's programs this season and I am really hoping they perform well this weekend and that the judges agree with me!!!
FYI, there's a thread in the Trash Can with links to Madison Hubbell's blog for IN if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...ll-s-scope-quot-Madison-s-2013-14-Season-Blog
Any objections if a new thread is started in GSD for U.S. ice dance news & discussion since summer is over?
Hubbell and Donohue have had problems with levels last season. I hope their coaching team is able to fix it.
If they skate well enough, they should have a shot. They've proven to be pretty great competitors. But, I am still nervous at the role politics could play at Nationals. Regardless, I hope they do their best so no matter what happens they can walk away proud of themselves.
Or could we get the moderators to just change the title and delete the summer reference? This thread has some good video links I would hate to lose.
I agree about the politics. If the Shibs get ouskated by H/D at SA then they should beat them but i'm afraid the US judges will hold up the Shibs just because they won a medal at Worlds and were thought to be the successors to D/W. But the last couple years showed they are not unless they start improving.
I wondered what would have happened to the Shibs if they followed Shpillband to Novi rather than staying with Zueva. It appears that the Shibs stagnated while Chock/Bates, who followed Shpillband, blossomed. As the #1 team, no doubt that the Shibs will get more attention/devotion from Zueva once D/W and V/M retire after this season.
However, I am not convinced that the Shibs' will improve once they become the #1 team @ Canton. The Shibs' strength always have been their technical superiority with their incredibly quite blade, good speed (not as fast as D/W - no other team does), and ability to gain good levels. The Canton teams all seemed to struggle with levels after Shpillband's departure. In addition, I am just not certain if Zueva can create cutting edge/innovative programs to overcome the inherent disadvantage a sibling team presents.
I just worry, since I am a big fan of the Shibs - I want them to do well.
I don't think the Shibs will be the No. 1 team in Canton, even if Davis/White leave after this season. I think Zoueva is maneuvering to fill her stable, if not immediately after this season, after other teams become disillusioned with their results and/or their Federations start interfering at the beginning of the next Olympic cycle.
There are other factors, IMO, in the Shibs' recent decline that for whatever reason haven't been talked about very much.
1.) Alex's injuries in the 2012 season to the early part of 2013. They have been pretty quiet about this, but there's been mention of it in passing.
2.) Maia's growth spurt. She's still pretty tiny now, but she's a lot taller (and filled out) than she was when she won World bronze a few back.
I remember when Alex went through that growth spurt a few years back, it was a real struggle for them. I remember a lot of people worried that Maia wouldn't grow and be too short for him!
While they haven't been super vocal about it, I'm sure it was frustrating to maneuver dances/lifts/etc when your sister isn't a tiny little thing any more.
The levels are a big problem, but perhaps now that it appears both of them have stopped growing they can focus less on finding their center of gravity/training around injuries and focus more on getting the key points.
Kwanfan1818, the above thought occurred to me, too. Maybe it is just me, but I get the sense that Zueva does not know what to do with the Shibs, at least choreography-wise.
As far as I am concerned, the Shibs had the best two programs for their senior debut season (2010-2011). Their "Carousel Waltz" SD was appropriate for their young age (16 & 19 at that time), and their “smile” and "Let's Face the Music and Dance" beautifully played up to their strengths: elegance, quiet blade-work, wholesomeness and natural exuberance. The relative simplicity of their FD choreography also highlighted their technical excellence, e.g., three sets of swizzles (not many teams did it at that time). The result showed at the 2011 worlds (bronze medal, though they got help from P/B’s disastrous falls).
I was slightly disappointed with the following season’s FD, which seems like a mere continuation of the previous FD. Although it was more technically challenging, I saw no new innovations other than the extended lift. All other lifts, spins and swizzles were unchanged. To their credit, however, they kept working on their SD program. Although many considered saltry, and sexy Latin dances to be disadvantageous to the Shibs, they collaborated with the renowned ballroom dancing instructor Corky Ballas over 2/3 of the SD choreography. The program improved greatly by the Nationals.
Many people posted their puzzlement and disappointment over the 2012-2013 “missing” SD. I, too, share the similar sentiments. Although “missing” is one of my all time favorite programs, I felt that it was really wrong for them. “Missing,’ as you know is danced by the legendary French-Canadian sibling team Duchsnays. They are known for innovative programs that are edgy and often in your face – qualities that are diametrically opposed to the Shibs, who are known for polite and wholesomeness. By giving “missing” to the Shibs, I just felt that Zueva was taking an easy way out. I imagined that it would have been paramount for Zueva to dispense her then limited resources to her #1 and 2 teams (D/W & V/M) in order to maintain her status in the ice dance world after the split up with Shpillband.
The end result could have been short-changing her #3 team with less than original programs. “The Memoirs of a Geisha” FD, though it was beautiful, did not break technical ground, and ended up playing on the Asian stereo-type. As I mentioned previously, they appeared regressing on the technical ends, too, as they did not gain many level 3s and 4s.
The Shibs are smart and hard working team. I have noticed that they have been increasingly more collaborating with outside experts. Starting with Corky Ballas in the 2011-2012 season, they hired a Japanese dance expert in 2012-2013 season. This season they have multiple expert on both their SD and FD programs. Perhaps this is their way of compensating whatever deficiencies they perceive in training in Canton. I truly wish them the best luck on this Olympic season.
Thanks, Mrs. P. - your explanations are very helpful. I'm glad to read from someone who seems to be sympathetic to the Shibs.
Sylvia tried and got no response, so on to a new thread. Any title suggestions. Do we go with a basic " US Ice Dance News and Notes: The olympic season" or does someone have a "cuter" suggestion?
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