U.S. Ice Dance News & Notes - Summer 2013

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Ummm... so did Camerlengo and Krylova run out of ideas? Because the FD that H&D skated was essentially a less intricate, less interesting rip-off of Crone and Poirier's last Olympic FD.

    They even do the move where she's draped over his leg, expect C&P actually incorporated turns into their version. I'd might actually consider suing if I was Carol Lane. Can you sue someone for stealing a FS program?
     
  2. blancanieves

    blancanieves Active Member

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    That combo spiral thingy is actually a Torvill/Dean move. Most things in figure skating are reinterpretations, from signature moves (Finn step, the Bielman) to music. I don't see plagiarism here. It's a different set of elements and focus. Of course, that is subjective. I think C/P's is "trickier" and more histrionic than romantic. H/D's program is understated, not easier, and very musical. The accents of the music are beautifully highlighted with the placement of the elements and the transitions.
     
  3. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Not that I love the practice of recycling other people's choreography, but the reality is if Carol Lane (or Chris Dean) can sue Krylova et al., no one in figure skating is safe from lawsuits. Everyone "rips off" everyone else's music cuts and choreography and lifts etc. Figure skating is a world of imitations. It's common practice.

    In this case, the H/D free dance is more likely an homage to the C/P free dance a few years ago. If they intend to "steal" without acknowledgment, they could have used the moves with a different piece of music, which also is common practice in skating. I regard the H/D free dance as an intentional reinterpretation of C/P's work. Even their costumes sort of kind of recall another C/P free dance ("Eleanor Rigby" which is a self-recycling product of Chris Dean).

    At least one can say that the Krylova/Carmalengo camp has good taste and often "adapts" good choreography, rather than repeating lame precedents.

    As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. (Those who flatter themselves imitate themselves.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  4. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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  5. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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  6. blancanieves

    blancanieves Active Member

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    No, me neither. I do love this music though and it's obvious they do too. That's what makes the program special for me, they're out there really living out every turn the melody takes. What's even more exciting is that it's just the beginning of the season. I can't wait to see this live in Boston.
     
  7. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    I have been unable to watch anything for a few weeks and way behind, but finally catching up on short programs now. I must say I like K/G-S's SD more than H/D's, so I hope K/G-S can improve upon it by US Nationals. Excited to see C/B's and the Shibs' SD for comparison. I like the choice of the Puppini Sisters, so interested to see what version of Irving Berlin's composition Igor used for the mix. As for the Shibs, I am so tired of anything by Michael Buble, but whatever it is, it will be perfect for them.
     
  8. hockeyplayer2

    hockeyplayer2 Member

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  9. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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  10. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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  11. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

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    They lost seven points on the twizzles, so they would've had a nice score if they'd completed the element. I really like the spirit of the program and the way they performed it!
     
  12. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I do too! They seem to be repeating the characters that worked well for them in last year's SD - stage door Johnny and the Performer.

    I wonder whether there was some ice problem. There were a lot of bad twizzles today.
     
  13. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    I am usually on the same page with you ladies when it comes to liking programs but not this time. I really dislike C/B's music. To me there is a disconnect between the words and the finnstep. Maybe I will like it better if I turn the sound off.
     
  14. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Do the Parsons get JGPF qualify for two 2nd-place finishes?
     
  15. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I think the C/B sd works well enough. It's cohesive and has a theme.
     
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    It's likely but not definite until after next week's final JGP in Estonia. In the Kiss and Cry forum just now, oleada outlined a hypothetical scenario in which the Parsons could end up below 6th among the qualifiers:
     
  17. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Sylvia. I'm crossing my fingers for them! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  18. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
  19. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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  20. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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  21. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    For me, the problem of this free dance is that the choreography acknowledges the music in an extremely general way. This is especially apparent in the second half. Amidst the bombastic music, the straight line sequence, breathless transitional moves, and final lift have no concern for timing, rhythm, or matching the music details (and this music has no details). If they missed timing by a few beats who could tell?
     
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  22. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate that they are taking on a Bollywood theme and using difficult music, but I don't think it works. At best, they have a ton of work to do to make this a mature FD. I expcted them to be in the running for top 5 at Nationals this year, but now I think that's unlikely based on these performances and the choreography/programs they have chosen. I hope they don't become one of those dance teams who are successful juniors, but never make it as seniors and just kind of fizzle out for a season or two before breaking up.
     
  23. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. Chock/Bates--Yes, the vocals are kind of screechy and the music is bombastic. Lifts definitely need work--they all appeared awkward. It's kind of funny--intellectual disconnect--hearing the singers go on about the Revolution and there's Madison in her pretty pink dress and girly hair bow, and while I generally LOVE color on men in general, the bright blue pants feel more "Willy Wonka" to me than French Revolution (forgive me if they're authentic; never seen the play or movie).

    Nats will be veeeeerrry interesting. C/B scored 89 here, H/D score 90 at Nebelhorn. . . could be a 3-way fight for those 2 other Sochi spots between these two and the Shibutanis.

    Anyone else get Skating magazine? Cover story is about Chock/Bates.
     
  24. Casey2

    Casey2 Member

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    In the past, a Skating mag cover story has often been a 'kiss of death' for pairs and dance pairs. I remember Samuelson and Bates , Yankowskis (sp?) and Coughlin, Zoueva and Shpilband (Feb 2012-just before their split). Other skaters have been featured shortly before a big competition only to have epic failures in said competition (Abbott) or injury (Alissa). I'm pretty sure there have been others. It's creepy to read about how devoted skaters are, how in sync, etc. and then read about a split/accident later that season.
     
  25. smileyskate

    smileyskate New Member

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    That is an interesting observation Casey2. I wonder what Emily is up to these days.
    Hopefully everyone ends up healthy and happy.
     
  26. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't that impressed at the debut, but hoped it would improve. I think the program needs some tweaking. Something doesn't work for me.
     
  27. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    So as we wait for the GP to start here is a compilation of the Senior performances (I included video links when I could find them):

    Davis/White: 183.69
    SD: 73.67 (35.66 + 38.01, 1Finn-3, 2Finn-3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TJAky40ooU
    FD: 110.02 (53.17 + 57.85, 1pt lift ded.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCYIlw7S014&feature=youtu.be&t

    Hubbell/Donohue 147.11
    SD: 56.53 (28.07 + 28.46, 1Finn2, 2Finn3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1pcnD3x5s
    FD: 90.58 (45.60 + 44.98) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4-33m-hzk

    Chock/Bates 143.06
    SD 53.34 (23.51 + 30. 83, 1Finn2, 2Finn3, 1pt fall deduction) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQX0Jow4koI
    FD 89.72 (42.16 + 47.56) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_EcCrHOOCw

    Lynn/Logan 134.48
    SD 53.03 (26.50 + 26.53, 1Finn3, 2Finn2)
    FD 81.45 (42.83 + 40.62, 2 pt extended lift deductions)

    Aldridge/Eaton 130.49
    SD 51.50 (23.68 + 27.82, 1Finn3, 2Finn1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhR-ABJcZE
    FD 78.99 (39.03 + 40.96, 1 pt extended lift deduction) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=U3BOgnOC3T4#t=181

    Cannuscio/McManus 119.34
    SD 48.07 (23.84 +24.23, 1Finn1, 2Finn3)
    FD 71.27 (34.86 _37.41, 1 pt extended lift ded.)

    Aronow/Brubaker 100.31
    SD 38.01 (16.84 +22.17, 1Finn1, 2Finn1, 1 pt extended lift deduction)
    FD 62.30 (28.57 + 33.73)
     
  28. mysticchic

    mysticchic Well-Known Member

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    ..and there has been one writer behind those articals. interesting!
     
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  29. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Agree with this. This program doesn't work for me. It was always a risk doing this so soon after Davis/White's epic Bollywood SD, and this unfortunately looks like a cheap copy, down to the costuming. It's not an easy genre to pull off especially for the length of an FD. I can't decide whether I like the choreography or not, but the program definitely doesn't look like it's been trained enough--it seemed rather sloppy and skated with leaden feet. I'll put that down to early season kinks being worked out. I might get smacked for saying this, but one thing that doesn't work for me about this program is Alexandra--I don't know whether it's her height, body shape, costume, or what, but she just doesn't look graceful doing this and the "Indian" moves aren't fluid. Haven't seen their SD but based on this, no way they get to top 5 at US Nationals.

    Chock/Bates FD is IMO a poor vehicle, especially everything starting with the vocal music, it takes center stage instead of their skating. Hubbell/Donahue looked good and with good programs (beautiful FD). Haven't seen Shibs programs but they need to make their move with C/B vulnerable program-wise--I'm not sure about the cover story "kiss of death" theory but it is intriguing coincidence!
     
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  30. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    So ... do we have 3 teams in JGP final? Are the Parsonses in?

    It is a bit ironic that people immediately jump on Aldredge/Eaton's obviously undertrained Bollywood FD through a poor-quality video with hardly discernible music. An undertrained and ill-prepared program with familiar music and dance style would never gather so much immediate rejection, I have to suspect. It's a reminder how incredibly difficult and daring Davis/White's choice were in 2010 and how ill rewarded they were by the establishment. Why would anyone bother to take any risk in ice dance if it is more punished than rewarded? Why wouldn't most programs look the same under a system like this?
     
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