U.S. Ice Dance News & Notes - Summer 2013

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    Good for him/them and happy to hear they are going for it! I guess this is another reason I could never have been an elite athlete. I don't think I could survive these emotional and psychological ups and downs and still stay motivated :scream:
     
  2. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Logan's post makes me even more a fan of Lynn & Logan than I was before!
     
  3. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Sylvia. Congratulations to McNamara & Carpenter and the Wheaton team! :respec: WISA ice dancing is a very grassroot effort with almost no political clout or reputation on either the national or international level. The coaching team has achieved something amazing in the past decade for not only US skating but also the local community. I hope they continue the excellence and attract more children into skating, especially ice dancing.
     
  4. blancanieves

    blancanieves Member

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    I think this being an Olympic year is what is marking the difference in USFS's decisions.

    Anyway, about H/D being stagnant last year. They might have had better scores had they chosen to stick close to what they'd done their first year, but I respected them greatly for challenging themselves with demanding programs, particularly the flamenco. I'm guessing the time they had to invest in mastering the specific character and movement for that dance style, ultimately cut into time needed to equally tend to the technical side of things. But despite missing Worlds, I don't think that last year was wasted time at all. By Nationals they displayed impressive growth and I think that foundation will serve them well this season.
     
  5. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Wish all the best to Lynn and Logan! Could they represent another country?
     
  6. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Maybe Thailand!
     
  7. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    At keast they could compete at 4CC and WCh for Thailand :D
     
  8. rhumba

    rhumba New Member

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    They won't get released from USFS until sitting out a year or two. Remember Morgan Mathews??
     
  9. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Sad :( If USFS dont let them to compete internationally, why thry will not gove them chance to compete for another country?
    I like this team amd wish to see them not only at USA Nationals.
    And i like Madi and Zach too. What i need to do? :(
     
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Even if Lynn and Logan don't end up in the top 3 at 2014 Nationals, the 4th-6th place teams will get to go to Four Continents in Taipei - it would be K/G-S's first 4CC.
     
  11. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    That was an entirely different case. Matthews/Zavozin were JGPF and World Junior Champions two years before they split, and had won 4 Continents silver as Seniors. USFS wouldn't release Morgan to skate for Canada because of M/Z's recent ISU Championship achievements. Morgan was quite young (20 in 2007) and with a new Canadian partner, could present a serious future challenge to US ice dance teams. (BTW, Canada wouldn't release Leif Gislason to skate for the US either, even though he hadn't achieved nearly as much success as Morgan. I guess they felt Morgan could achieve even more with Leif than she had with Max, which would challenge Canada in ice dance).

    Lynn and Logan at 25 and 28 haven't achieved quite the same level of international success, with medals in 5 International B events (including two Ice Challege golds). I doubt USFS would hold them back nearly as long as Matthews.
     
  12. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    It was an entirely different situation by the official release policy (written) at the time. Because of her results with Zavozin, USFS could hold her up to four seasons, and that's what they did. They did not, however, hold Zavozin for the same length of time.

    K/G-S do not have the results to be held for more than two seasons, which USFS made into 2+ for Piper Gilles, by those rules. I've been asking for years if the rules have been changed or updated, but never got an answer.
     
  13. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    So there is no way that K/G-S could just jump ship and offer to represent Thailand at Nebelhorn to try to earn an Olympic spot? :lol:

    Do I need to add that this was tongue in cheek? :shuffle:
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  14. rhumba

    rhumba New Member

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    As I mentioned, at least one or two years.....USFS never set up any definite rule/regulation for whatever.... Weaver sat out one or two years, same as Piper. Max did not have to sit out at all when Morgan sounded like indefinite....ended up she quit skating...
     
  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    There was a written rule/regulation when Matthew's asked for release, because it was posted here, quoted from some official documentation, with a description of how someone objected to such a long release time, IIRC during a general meeting, and it was swept into some committee that shut the door on the process. It said that two years was maximum time to be held without release, unless the skater(s) met certain competitive criteria, and the then the up-to-four-year hold could be applied from the time the skater(s) earned those medals/placements.
     
  16. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    Weaver-Poje teamed up in August 2006 and competed on the Junior Grand Prix in the fall of 2006. Her final U.S. competition was 2006 nationals. She didn't sit out one or two seasons, because she had not competed internationally for the U.S. at a Grand Prix, junior worlds, etc.
     
  17. intheknow

    intheknow Member

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    Kaitlyn competed with her former U.S. partner at two junior Grand Prix events in the fall of 2005, one in Andorra and one in Croatia. She was allowed to compete for Canada internationally almost exactly one year after her last international competition for the U.S. It is my theory that releases from USFS became much more difficult after her success competing for Canada.
     
  18. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    I know this is all idle (and a little bit fun) speculation, but maybe K/G-S should actually quickly check things out for the possibility. I have no idea how one contacts another skating federation for this purpose, but I imagine Igor would ;)

    I've said it before, but I still wish that the GP spots hadn't been reduced. That's part of the problem for all these athletes.
     
  19. Debbie S

    Debbie S Well-Known Member

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    I believe Skate Canada released Leif the following season to skate with Morgan for the U.S. At least, they competed at U.S. Nats in 09, or were they not int'l-eligible then?

    Did Weaver and U.S. partner medal on the JGP, though? I remember Augie Hill also had to sit out a year (or two?) at around the same time when he wanted to compete for Canada b/c he'd won a medal on the JGP. If Weaver and partner didn't medal, then that could explain her quick release.
     
  20. Twizzler

    Twizzler Well-Known Member

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    Morgan did compete with Leif Gislason at US Nationals- forget the year. She quit because of a severe back injury as well as an eating disorder. It had nothing to do with not being released, etc.
     
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    No, Weaver/Clavey finished 5th in both JGPs.

    I don't believe USFS' Athlete Release Policy is a public document. It exists, though, because USFS' Board of Directors in their July 8, 2013 Report of Action published on the USFS site:
    "APPROVED an amendment to the U.S. Figure Skating Athlete Release Policy as presented."
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  22. emilieh

    emilieh Active Member

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    I can't remember all of the details anymore, but I think USFS was holding Hill for 3 or 4 years. He skated with Lauren Senft in the 2007-08 season and although they could compete in domestic Canadian competitions, I don't think he had been released from USFS to skate internationally for Canada. Hill's last JGP for the US was in 2005 (though his only JGP medal was in 2003), so the hold on him was over 2 years.

    Siobhan Karam & Kevin O'Keefe also teamed up in 2007. O'Keefe was a former JGP competitor for the US, but his last JGP was in 2003, so they were able to compete internationally for Canada in fall 2007.

    I believe USFS is currently holding Whitney Miller, who is now skating with Shane Firus in Vancouver. Based on summer results, it seems that they've been passed over for a JGP assignment from Skate Canada, so I'm assuming that it's an issue of release. Miller skated with Kyle MacMillan at one JGP last year, they were 10th. Their JGP (Austria) was Sept 12-15 last year, so they'd be eligible for one of the later JGPs if USFS releases her.
     
  23. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    Too bad USFS isn't required to have more transparency, but the document has to be available to at least the athletes involved. I would love to know what it said and how it has been amended. Anyone?:sekret:

    This topic is quite interesting--thanks to everyone for providing some historical notes. It does seem that K/G-S are in a different situation and at a different point in their career, though.
     
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Having seen them at BC Summerskate, normally, I wouldn't think it would be horrible for Miller and Firus to concentrate on jelling as a team this season before making their JGP debut, but he'll be 20 next February, and with the age changes for next season, he will age out of juniors. Unless they get a junior or senior B next winter or spring, they'll have no international experience when they're forced to skate senior next season. (The age rules apply to "international competitions," not just ISU events.)

    Miller turns 15 tomorrow. I didn't realize she was that young, and she could still grow.

    On the US senior dance topic, I'm grateful to an FSUer who PMed me to say that in 2010, the US Olympic alternates Navarro/Bommentre did not go to 4C's, but went to 2010 Worlds (in place of Belbin/Agosto in that case). While either S/S or H/D would be the strong favorites for the 4C's title (and $30K prize money), if USFS keeps the pewter medalists home again to train in case, and if Canada also doesn't send its Olympic team to 4C's like in 2010, that will open up a great opportunity for US #7 at 4C's, which could be the difference between having a SB for next year and not.

    I'm guessing US #6-7 don't have a realistic shot at the podium, especially in Dance, and with scores tending to rise at championships, an SB at 4C's would be more valuable than an SB at a GP. A GP spot or Nebelhorn would be most important for US #5, K/G-S, an outside podium shot barring disaster, as a chance for USFS to see how a top-level international panel would score them after longer with Shpilband, particularly in PCS and levels, and they're the ones who don't have one. Even if Aldridge/Eaton aren't ready for CoC, it would take at least two other withdrawals for K/G-S to even move into the Top Five group and be eligible to be picked as an alternate. I wish H/D would be swapped for SLC, with K/G-S moved up from S(ub) at Nebelhorn, but it won't happen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  25. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    kwanfan1818, you never seem to amaze me with your well-thought out analyses and posts! Too bad you are not a decision maker ;)

    I didn't even think about that swap and, of course, you are right that it's not going to happen, particularly at this late date. It would definitely have been a bit of an equalizer, considering that H/D now have three chances to post SB scores before the end of season competitions and, IIRC, they needed their second GP last season to move up in the SB rankings. Makes me wonder further about what is driving these decisions. With K/G-S unlikely to repeat a medal at SLC considering the top teams on the roster, I just hope they are healthy and perform well since this is their only international assignment.

    On another note, is the US actually limited to one entry for Nebelhorn and Finlandia or is this their choice? I thought at least one more team was sent to each at different times in the past.
     
  26. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    For Nebelhorn, in any year but where it's the Olympic qualifier, any country with a team in the Top 10 from the previous year can send two couples. (Chock/Bates won last year.) Although the wording in the Nebelhorn announcement is not specific, it says that the field will be limited to 24 "in principle," and because this is an Olympic qualifying year:

    1. The field can be larger if there are more countries that need to qualify.
    2. All countries that need to qualify can send a maximum of one, even countries in the Top 10 at 2012 Nebelhorn (SUI, ESP, CZE).
    3. If there's enough room, 2012 Top 10 countries that don't need to qualify for the Olympics can send up to two. (USA, AZE, GER, RUS, CAN, UKR)
    4. The host (GER) can send as many as it chooses.

    The entry deadline was 3 August 13, and the entries have been posted. There are currently 23:
    http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028006.htm

    All of the countries who are qualified for the Olympics and could potentially send two have one on the current list, except AZE. Not every country who needs to qualify is on the entry list as of today, but some countries may not try, if their NOC's have stricter requirements than the ISU. I understand there is a "Waiting List" of sorts, which I'd assume consists of possible second entries for the teams who could possible send two, although I think if GER was planning to have more than one, the team would be listed by now.

    I haven't read anything to indicate if the Nebelhorn organizers will decide to lock the field in at 23, add one team from the countries in Top 10 at 2012 Nebelhorn, expand the field, etc.

    For Finlandia, the announcement says that dance fields can be limited to 15, but doesn't say anything about country-specific limitations; instead it says "The Organizer will preferably accept skaters and couples having taken part in the Senior or Junior ISU Championships of the last two (2) seasons (in the finals 2012)." The final deadline was 26 August 13.
     
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    My understanding is that the U.S. was only permitted 1 entry per discipline at Nebelhorn this year (due to the Olympic qualifying competition taking priority) even though last year's results made them eligible to send 2 in each. One dance team, Hubbell/Donohue, competed at Finlandia last year and Chock/Bates and the Shibutanis were sent in 2011.

    Lynn & Logan were assigned to a second Senior B last season, Ice Challenge, which they've won for the past 2 seasons, and the USA has had 2 dance teams there both in 2011 and 2012 (dates this year are Nov. 19-24, 2013).
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  28. Conga

    Conga New Member

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    With the addition of Vanessa Lam to Finlandia, there are two entries in both ladies and men, but still only one in dance. Too bad.

    When will the assignments for Ice Challenge be posted? I hope K/G-S get it (even though scores can't count towards a SB :() but there are still two other dance teams in the ISP that do not have any assignments. I would like to see K/G-S and C/M at Graz this season because I was hoping to see them on the GP circuit, so how likely is it that they would be skipped over for the other two teams?

    I am also hoping that Alissa gets Graz, too.
     
  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Hawayek/Baker won their first JGP gold medal in Mexico City yesterday and Novice champs Lewis/Bye placed 5th in their JGP debut.

    Hawayek/Baker's FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEFYmSptV28

    Lewis/Bye's FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU3vtn184TU

    The Ice Challenge Announcement states that final entries by name have to be submitted to the organizers by October 20, 2013.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  30. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Hawayek and Baker are wonderful, loved their FD especially. That first lift was amazing and I loved the DW swoop lift later on, :) He is a wonderful ice dancer and a rock solid partner. I can already see her improvement with him. So excited for their potential, wishing them more success to come!