Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Oct 18, 2013.
What is that Einstein quote about how insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...
Aw,come on,it's not that bad.
Besides, is there even a world-class coach they could go to? The leading ice dance schools in North-America right now are Novi and DSC. To Krylova they can't go, because she already trains W/P and H/D. Shpilband would probably not take them because of C/B. There isn't really much the Shibutanis can do.
I wonder if the Shibs would even consider moving out of Michigan.
Is it true that Shibs's father was partly responsible for Igor's firing from Canton? If so, I guess Shibs could never go there.
There are other coaches beyond Detroit. Something has to be done here if they are going in for 4 more years. They've gone 3-8-8-9 over the last four years. In 2011 they beat every single team that finished above them at Worlds this week. Next year with Hawayek/Baker, Hubbell/Donohue, and Chock/Bates they could easily find themselves off the World team entirely. Their programs this year were a mess from start to finish. The programs did nothing to push them forward, set them apart, or highlight their best qualities. Who do I blame for that? Well, the first place to look is Marina.
Leaving Michigan would be a big decision, but they need to make some kind of game-changing move. The writing has been on the wall for over 2 years now.
I don't think that the Shibs would ever leave Michigan. Didn't they make the switch to Canton because they wanted the opportunity to study at a good school and also have world class training?
The family has moved around the country when Alex and Maia were growing up to pursue the best coaching. I think they moved to Michigan from Colorado Springs to train with Igor/Marina as soon as Igor/Marina decided they were advanced enough or had enough potential to take them on (2008?). School, I would imagine, comes a very distant second.
First, I am just happy they are continuing. I really like them!! I think a factor in how long they stick with Marina will be if they truly become her #1 team. After playing second fiddle to D/W and V/M (even though the Shibs seem to really be friends with both teams), if Marina gains a world ranked team and once again the Shibs are backburnered, that might rankle them enough to leave her.
I, too, am happy they're continuing. Any chance Marina would let them get choreography elsewhere??
Haven't they been getting choreography elsewhere, though? They've worked with those DWTS people this season on their SD and Michael Jackson's choreographers for their FD. The season prior, they worked with a DWTS person and the choreographer who worked on the film Memoirs of a Geisha. Are those people just collaborators with Marina being the main choreographer?
Maybe they need less outside dance folk and get some choreographers who know how to choreograph on the ice.
I'm glad they're continuing. I always had a soft spot for them. Still, I wish they would go to a different coach/choreographer. However, moving out of Michigan would mean a lot of sacrifices that maybe they don't want to make and that's ok.
All those people are just collaborators. Read the icenetwork article about the MJ people. They taught the Shibs movement and feeling, but know nothing about ice dancing. Marina puts together the program.
I think almost all top level teams work with ballroom dancers at least in the SD to help them get the character of the dance. My issue with their FD this year was all the posing and hopping around. Eys, I get that's MJ, but the Shibs' main strengths IMO are their skating skills and flow across the ice. Why would anyone pick a FD that takes all the focus away from that is beyond me.
Didn't they already try something less hoppy and more skate-y like that the last couple seasons? And it still got them nowhere. I am beginning to think it might not be all the program's fault, although it may have been a factor.
I don't know if they need a skating coach, a technical coach, or some kind of additional coaching to address their technical issues.
Great news that they are in it for another four years! That said, they do need a new approach. I wish them loads of success!
While I don't want them to stop doing what they love, I think that one day Kim Navarro and Brent Bommentre could be amazing coaches. I also wonder what Charlie White and Tanith Belbin could do together? (I'm not considering Meryl because I know that she is going to fall off the face of the earth, and then one day materialize in a National Geographic issue as making a huge discovery in an archaeological dig.)
In the opinion of one Shibs fan, that they will compete next season is good news. That they will remain with Zoueva is not.
They were younger then, and now they're paying in-state tuition at one of the best schools in the country. They move, and school becomes a lot more expensive.
How far along are Maia and Alex in school now? I know they don't go full time, but what's the current projection of how long they need to stay in MI?
Maia is what? 19 until July? and never went to school full time? At least 4 years, I would think.
I didn't realize she was so young. Probably means they won't be leaving Mich.
ISU Season Best Total scores in 2013-14 & ISU World Standings ranking after 2014 Worlds:
1 195.52 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA XXII Olympic Winter Games 2014 [ISU World Standings rank #1]
8 167.59 Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES USA ISU World Championships 2014 [WS 8]
10 158.57 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA ISU World Championships 2014 [WS 12]
11 158.25 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2014 [WS 9]
12 157.12 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER USA ISU World Junior Championships 2014 [WS 29]
22 144.95 Alexandra ALDRIDGE / Daniel EATON USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2014 [WS 22]
28 138.53 Lorraine MCNAMARA / Quinn CARPENTER USA ISU World Junior Championships 2014 [WS 36]
35 134.73 Rachel PARSONS / Michael PARSONS USA ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 [WS 49]
43 130.05 Lynn KRIENGKRAIRUT / Logan GIULIETTI-SCHMITT USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2014 [WS 27]
52 127.74 Holly MOORE / Daniel KLABER USA ISU JGP Tallinn Cup 2013 [WS 68]
57 122.92 Elliana POGREBINSKY / Ross GUDIS USA ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2013 [WS 72]
83 104.32 Chloe LEWIS / Logan BYE USA ISU JGP Mexico Cup 2013 [WS 108]
90 98.93 Tory PATSIS / Joseph JOHNSON USA ISU JGP Minsk 2013 [WS 125; SPLIT after Nationals]
Anastasia Cannuscio/Colin McManus (7th at Nationals; 8th at Salt Lake Sr B & won Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria) [WS 63]
Anastasia Olson/Ian Lorello (8th at Nationals; have yet to compete internationally)
Alissandra Aronow/Collin Brubaker (9th at Nationals; 13th at Salt Lake Sr B)
Ginna Hoptman/Pavel Filchenkov (10th at Nationals; have yet to compete internationally)
Danielle Gamelin/Alexander Gamelin (12th at Nationals; did not compete internationally)
Madeline Heritage/Nathaniel Fast (13th at Nationals; did not compete internationally) [WS 97]
Split after Nationals (11th place): Isabella Cannuscio/Michael Bramante (he is listed on IPS)
It is going to be exciting next season as they jockey for "top dog" status. While Chock/Bates seem to have a slight lead in points, they are only 1 spot ahead of Hubbell/donohue. Now I see why C/B are rumored to be by-passing the show circuit and starting to train for next season.
The question is who really good could they go to and be the #1 team if someone better comes on board with Zoueva (say I&K). Camerlengo and Sphilband are out. So is Zhulin. The Lanes would probably treat Gilles & Poirier as their #1 even if the Shibutanis came now that their world results are close, and the Lanes are like parents to Poirier.
Thinking of the Shibutani's ages though they could be around for 2 more Olympic cycles. At the 2022 Olympics Alex would only be 31. I wonder if that is their plan, and how much they can achieve in that time. They are still the youngest team in the top 10, slightly younger than I&K and G&P.
I really hope the Shibs do well, but I can't see them having much of an upward trajectory if they stay where they are. If they've only fallen in World standings since 2011 under Marina, I can't imagine how that'll change if they stay with her. I see them being left behind by C/B and H/D, and by the next Olympics, perhaps even Hawayek/Baker or another rising junior team. I love their style and I think they're beautiful skaters, but Marina doesn't seem to know how to coach a brother/sister pair, and there are other teams rising the ranks that have been having a more consistent upward progress.
Their 6th at worlds was their best in years, and if we assume P&B gone, maybe I&K retired, and maybe C&L gone, even Bobrova & Soloviev returning puts them in 4th or 5th next year. Granted it is by default with teams retiring, but it is still progresing up and back to medal contention again.
But they didn't beat any teams that they lost to in Sochi. They would have been 9th at Worlds if D/W, V/M and B/S competed. If recent history is our guide, more teams will continue to pass them. The wait-it-out game isn't really applicable with this team, especially when you consider that in 2011 they beat every team they lost to at these World Championships (save Chock/Bates, who weren't partnered yet).
Interview with junior world champions Hawayek and Baker (scroll down): http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2014/04/01/70598284
Also published today in the "Inside Edge" blog:
Congratulations to Greg and his new husband!