Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sugar, Jun 15, 2011.
OH.....BOY.......SOMEONE IS IN BIG TROUBLE!!!!!!
Wow I take this as a retirement demand
They should have gone after Tom Z, too.
So...is Flatt definitely not competing this season?
According to the article, "[t]he federation is addressing separately what if any action to take against Tom Zakrajsek, who was her coach at worlds." So, they still might go after him (and I agree with you that they should do so)
Wow this is a strong stand to take and pity the girl - but glad to see the point being made. Hopefully all other skaters/coaches/teams sit up and take note.
I still think Rachael thought to have a last hurrah at Worlds. Not the smartest move, and definitely selfish, but I can understand where she was coming from. What a dark mark on what was otherwise a very respectable career.
Kudos to Hersh for following up on this.
Holy Sh*t. Phil Hersh got what he wanted. Kudos to him for not backing down on this one. And I agree, action should also be taken against Tom Z.
Ohh! (((Rachael))) I though the skaters skates even with injure is not that rare in figure skating? Now blame on US girls no 3spot on Racheal..
And she bombed at Nats (otherwise she'd have gone to Worlds) and bombed last year at Worlds (otherwise we would have had 3 spots this year and she would have gone to Worlds - see a trend?). I like Mirai, and I like Frank, but he needs to stop whining and focus on preparing his student for next season.
I imagine that the root of Frank's ire has nothing to do with Rachael. I'm willing to bet this is about some feud between Frank and Tom Z.
I have never seen the specific requirements the USFSA gives its int'l team members regarding reporting injuries, but if Rachael didn't follow them, I agree with the USFSA's actions. But I'm not sure it's realistic to think that Rachael made (or could make) the decision to tell or not to tell all by herself. Tom Z was likely a major driver in this and I think he should bear the brunt of the consequences, not Rachael.
I hope we hear about what the "separate action" against Tom Z turns out to be.
When Caroll had Evan, and Evan was injured right before worlds, he called Tom Z to give him a heads up that Jeremy might need to be ready as alternate. Jeremy ended up going to Worlds.
I think Caroll has a legit gripe that when Rachael had a significant injury, Tom Z didn't do the same
I'm very sad that Rachael took a year off college to skate, and it ended like this. I hope she can go on to University and be great at academics. It is time for her to retire from skating.
I think the root of Frank's ire is that he believes that injured athletes should not be competing. I agree with him.
I see absolutely no problem with her trying to compete through injury. At least through the short program, she was still trying to complete her planned content.
I would think this "punishment" is based on the fact that Rachael/Tom did not report the injury even though they had gotten a diagnosis, which meant USFS could not inform the alternate and give her the heads up that she may be needed to compete.
Didn't Evan compete with a stress fracture while being coached by Frank?
ETA: Yes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Lysacek
It appears she was reprimanded not for competing with the injury but for failing to disclose the injury prior to compete according to the wording. Obviously, other skaters have competed with injuries, but they may have been known and/or reported to U.S. Figure Skating beforehand (in which case, what do they say?)
Also, I wonder if other skaters have been fined for not reporting injuries and we just didn't hear about it.
She might need to earn some prize money to pay the fine!
And to think some posters wanted to sweep this under the rug...
Hopefully it sends the message: Don't try to grit it out on your own. And for heaven's sake, don't try to hide it.
I'm glad the USFS is taking action, even if it had to be nudged by Phil Hersh to do so.
Yes, but it obviously didn't affect his performance ability as he won his first and only world title that year.
Frank Carroll coach of OGM Evan Lysacek, OSM's Michelle Kwan, Linda Fratianne, OBM Timothy Goebel, Christopher Bowman, Tiffany Chin etc ?
A feud based on what because it certainly isn't professional jealousy.
On the other hand, there is something wrong when the PSA is nominating Tom Z for coach of the year and here we have Rachael Flatt being reprimanded and fined by the USFS. I realize they are not one and the same, but it's just off.
Tom Z had two athletes competing with bad injuries at major competitions this season. I'm surprised they didn't start the investigation by looking at him.
I was NOT expecting this. I feel bad for Rachael, but I think it was wrong on many different levels of her and Tom decided not to back out of worlds.
I will be extremely shocked if Flatt continues to compete after this. USFSA is pretty much telling her "don't let the door hit you on the way out".
I forgot about that. That's a good point.
Exactly. She may have still competed, and the result may have been the same, and frank would still be talking about it. I don't think Frank's response has to do with a (blanket) opinion that injured athletes shouldn't compete (b/c then Evan wouldn't have competed at '09 Worlds). This seems more personal than that, and it may be the issue Centerpt1 noted above.
These coaches travel on teams together and spend a lot of time together. Coaching is kind of like a fraternity/sorority anyway. There are plenty of things for coaches to feud/dislike each other about that have nothing to do with the medals their students have earned.
I believe that Rachael and her coach share responsibility.
They both knew that she was not fit/physically ready for competition; and concealed it,
I'm glad that Hersh persisted with follow-up, or we might never have known about this action.
I hope that there will be clearly defined policies and procedures in place to prevent similar situations in the future.
Whatever it is, it should definitely be harsher than the action taken against Flatt. Honestly, I think the whole situation falls on Tom Z. HE was the one who made the decision to send her- and the one who is ultimately responsible for his skater.
Ok, what does "reprimand" here mean exactly?
She will be banned from competing for the next season?
How do you know Frank would still be talking about it if Rachael's camp had reported her injury?
USFS not releasing how much they are fining Rachael is a bit odd. It could be something totally ceremonial like $100. It's not like Rachael is rolling in endorsement money or anything like that. This might have just been a gentle token gesture by USFS to get Phil off their backs.
Either way, I think it's an important step. This sends a huge message to other skaters down the road who might be in her position. She has every right to skate injured at Nationals, where she's only skating for herself, but with so much more than her own result at stake, her Worlds behavior was inexcusable.
I tend to agree with RD.
Tom Z has a great ethical responsibility in this and he failed miserably. And we haven't touched on JF skate at Nationals which was another poor decision. I have to imagine now that the cat is out of the bag re: a reprimand/fine for Rachael that we will certainly hear something regarding Tom Z's "punishment"--aside from losing multiple skaters for the coming season!!!!
The answer is NO! The article went on to report...USFS would have no further comment on the action. It will not affect her eligibility. The federation is addressing separately what if any action to take against Tom Zakrajsek, who was her coach at worlds.
Not surprised USFS finally addressed this, but I'm a bit shocked they threw Rachael under the bus before Tom Z (assuming that happens at all), especially after how the USFS has looked kindly toward Rachael in the past.
I'm kind of stunned, but agree with the decision and hope Tom Z. is called on the carpet too, in fact, even more than Rachael.
Basically a warning letter. Still, I wonder how much the fine was, and why they chose not to disclose it (is it an unusually small or large amount?)
At this level, a lot of athletes are competing with injuries, some more serious than others. If Rachael was still doing all of her jumps up until she arrived at Worlds (and in the SP, it seemed she was still expecting to do her regularly planned jumps aside from the 3-3), then I don't see much of problem with her trying to gut it out. That's what athletes do, and it would be crazy, in my opinion, to fine her for that.
Now, if Rachael was aware that she was required to notify USFS that she had an injury/received a diagnosis, but didn't bother doing that, then that's a completely different story. It wasn't right to leave the alternate completely in the dark about this injury situation.
Well, I hope it doesn't break the bank but I want it to be meaningful. Something like $50 is just a waste of time.
I think the reprimand and fine is more symbolic than anything else and does more harm in the long run. I mean when was the last time the USFS reprimanded and fined a skater?
WOW, just when you thought this off-season couldn't get more bizarre or be filled with more drama. Like everyone else, I am wondering where is Tom's long overdue fine for coaching negligence?
Yes, I personally believe this is what prompted the action (reprimand and fine) by USFS.
This is what I posted in the earlier Flatt injury thread on May 3:
Separate names with a comma.