Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jul 24, 2013.
^^^^^ I am with her.
Ashley is my favorite American skater; and skating is, of course, more fun to discuss. However, this is a thread discussing her interview with TSL which dealt with topics that extend well beyond what she does on the ice.
Nobody is saying they want cliche answers or boring interviews from her. Is there really no gray area between boring and offensive? The attitude of posters here is rather appalling. My appreciation of Ashley's skating has no bearing on the fact that she used a word that was offensive, and how dare anyone tell me otherwise, or to get over it. "Fag" means a pack of cigarettes, and "pansy" means a delicate flower. Both are words that have come to use as derogatory insults against gay males, and are offensive regardless of whether they are thrown at oneself or a competitor. WTF is so hard to understand about that?
I wish Ashley well this season. I hope she gets the 3/3 and contends for an Olympic medal. I also hope that she continues being honest, open and interesting in her off-ice endeavors, but can do so using words that don't demean a group of people that is being put through an awful lot of hate and BS right now, especially as it pertains to the upcoming Games. I have a feeling she would say "sorry, I didn't even realize" and move on, unlike posters here who refuse to understand the hurt words can cause certain people.
Who are you to say that Ashley meant 3a. when she could have meant 3b? If you seriously think that Ashley is a homophobe and needs to apologize, then file a complaint against her with the USFSA.
LOL, Ashley Wagner is about as homophobic as Nicole Bobek, Barbra Streisand, Cher, Madonna, Lady Gaga, Cyndi Lauper, Kathy Griffin, and Margaret Cho.
Omg. You people are still arguing over that word. Wow just wow.
I grew up thinking that "pansy" was just another word for "wimp", so I'm pretty sure Ashley did too.
I love her depiction of Adam's reaction to the "Gold lutz", though!
I get real tired of the PC police trying to police every word people say. It's just another form of fascism from people trying to control another person's freedom of speech. If they could read our minds and tell us what to think and not to think they would do that also. I guess i grew up in a time when people were a lot tougher and didn't get so butthurt. It was obvious that Ashley meant the word pansy as meaning she wimped out on the triple triple.
That was pretty funny. The thing that wasn't made clear- is Adam annoyed she is doing it, or that she is trying to change the name to credit her? Because the later is pretty annoying; but Ashley made it sound like it was the former.
I assumed it was the former, but I'm not sure. Ashley does do some jumps occasionally with both arms over her head and I've seen it referred to as "Ripponing" the jump, and he hasn't really said much about that. (though it's not a triple lutz she does)
Rippon encouraged Gold to do the Rippon 3Lz last year, according to this 2012 Skate Detroit article: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120728&content_id=35744346&vkey=ice_news
While I have not been an all out "fan" of the TSL webcasts and approach, I think they ARE helping move the conversation around the sport (granted, within the narrow community of uber fans and skaters who are paying attention to the sport ... in August) in overall, a productive and more interesting direction. Certainly, the quality of the discourse as available through the established broader media, is just way too 2-dimensional to be truly interesting or thought provoking.
With the discussion ongoing within this thread, I feel frustrated FOR THE SKATERS actually. It's like they just can't win sometimes. People want skaters to be more candid and open, then jump down their throats finding something to criticize when they do. It's sort of a "no win" situation for the skaters sometimes it seems. Very tough needle to thread. Takes the right combination of intelligence, confidence and the willingness to simply ignore some people, enough of the time.
Really? I took what she said as Adam being dismayed over Gracie trying to coin the move as the "Gold lutz" when it's something Adam did first, has been doing for years, and is frequently attributed to him. It did not seem like he was upset over the fact that she does the jump, and I can't see why he would be.
EXACTLY!! Could not have said this better myself!
I'm one of those who always wants more openness, and it's always a double-edged sword because there always exists the possibility that you may hear something you don't want to hear. At the end of the day, though, in my view it helps the sport. The days of perfect ice princesses are over.
Thank you Sylvia for being the voice of reason. I remember the photo shoot in Detroit he and Gracie talked about him giving her pointers. I think Ashley was the one rubbed by Gracie and her accomplishments. Her remark was in the context of the question regarding how she felt about Gracie's media self promotion on Twitter etc.. Interesting that her answer was sharing other's alleged feelings about it. I would not trust what Ashley says about the way other people about feel or react about things as accurate, especially when it serves her. I imagine it is difficult to be graceful all the time when you are the National Champion and so much hype is being said about your competitor. All in all considering the pressure Ashley seemed to handle the interview just fine. I think my head would explode with that kind of pressure. The JGPs will begin soon enough and we can stop over micro analyzing each interview.
I don't think anyone has accused her of being HOMOPHOBIC. They accused her of using a word that many consider derogatory .
It is not likely b. as that refers to a MAN and Ashley definitely isn't a man. DO YOU REALLY WANT SOMEONE TO FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST HER WITH THE USFSA? IN my original posting, I only said she might want to be careful about using the word.
Just heard the first part of the interview. Love Wagner. I think I noticed her in 2009 in Cup Or Russia when she was asked about the programme and what it was about and she frankly said she had no idea, that Romanova told her to do this and that and she was just doing it without putting too much thought. Compared to all the `Katia is trying to seduce Dima' and `I skate for my fans, thank you all so much' it was a breath of fresh air. Great to see 4 years later she still speaks her mind (and with a normal voice! What the hell is wrong with 1/2 of the American female skaters and their mouse like voices?!)
Thanks, Wagner, looking forward to see you at the Olympics!
This was more or less what I was trying to get at!
But can someone answer me when the "Tano" Lutz officially became the "Rippon" Lutz, etc. Where is the fairness in that!
Tano - one hand up, Rippon 2 hands up?
I think in one of the interviews Rippon was asked about the name for the 2hands up lutz and he said he hopes it will not be called `a mistake'
A 'Tano Lutz is still a thing, but he never did it with 2 hands overhead. (And I see lots of lower level skaters doing 'Tano toe loops...Boitano gets credit for one hand over the head no matter the jump, it seems)
Thanks for the response I didn't realize the difference because Ashley Wagner does the double toe with two hands above her head and many commentators call that "Tano". I guess not everyone knows the differentiation (Myself included until now )
"Wagner Double Toe", or even worse, "Wagner Toe" doesn't sound nearly as good as "Gold Lutz". It sounds like an affliction, not an accomplishment. There's no wonder why Ashley didn't try to name it after herself
No, I'm saying the exact opposite. Unless what Ashley said was worthy of filing a complaint against the USFSA, then there's nothing you can do about it. If what Ashley said WAS worthy of filing a complaint against the USFSA, then file it. Continuing a crusade of hatred against Ashley on the internet accomplishes nothing.
P.S. If Ashley is not a man, then 3a doesn't apply to her either. A mountain is being made out of a molehill.
I don't hate Ashley and I don't think anyone here is continuing a crusade of hatred against her. Talk about blowing things out of proportion and making mountains out of mole hills!!!! She has been one of my favorites since she became a senior. How is giving someone some advice which might head off trouble an act of hatred.
You really think Ashley reads YOUR advice?
Why do you think I worded my original posting the way I did?
I watched it again. I think Ashley misspoke she was reaching for the right word and I think she meant to say "Mamby Pamby" and "Pansy" came out- after all she was born in the 1990's not the 1960's for heavens sake! That is something that was said on my mother's playground certainly not the current common vocabulary of someone 2 generations later.
Urban dictionary defines:
Mamby Pamby : Cowardly, wimpy, shamefully fearful, having no confidence.
Be real. It is uneasy to me that some enjoy enough character assassination and propagate agenda-ed assumptions without regard. It is creepy weird that some would take such liberties and attach labels like "homophobic" to something that was said only to describe something else. Pathetic!
You peanuts are still talking about it?
It's unfortunate she didn't detail her Pink Floyd program. Ashley tends to be somewhat overreaching in her choreography so hopefully we'll see something measured, restrained, yet sultry...
^I cannot wait for her Crrrrazy Diamonds. It's a fave of mine - I hope Ashley can do it justice.