Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jul 24, 2013.
No. It's not. It implies femininity within a masculine being.
LIGHTEN UP. She called herself a pansy, which among my group of friends is commonly used when describing yourself when you "chickened out". WHICH IS EXACTLY HOW SHE USED IT. I call myself a pansy on the ice when I pop jumps.
Man oh man, next thing you know you won't be able to say anything without someone twisting it as offensive. I mean she was even talking about herself, it's not like she went and said something like "so and so is a pansy"
I can't believe people are getting worked up over pansy.
tee hee...have you been here before?
I did know that 'pansy' was originally a gay slur, but it's a pretty weak term for people in my age group and I suspect that most people my age don't actually know that that's where it originated. I avoid slurs and I'm pretty sure I've called myself and others pansies before without even considering the original connotation.
Personally, I prefer to call myself a "wuss," but I have no problem with Ashley calling herself a pansy.
I guess it depends on your point of reference, I am also gay and when I heard her use it annoyed me, much like when i hear primary school age kids calling things "gay" when they just mean bad. Just like with the primary school age kids (or any kids) that use "gay" to mean bad, I think it's done unthinkingly, but then I make a point to highlight it otherwise they many never think about what they say.
What you reference about young people calling things or people "gay" when they mean bad or stupid irritates me to no end, but Ashley didn't call things or anyone else a pansy; she directed "pansy" at herself, which to me clearly means she was implying that she wimps out or has too much fear going into her triple+triple jump pass. Many words in the English language have double meanings or multiple contexts. It's not like she called a fellow competitor a "pansy." I don't understand how anyone can be bent out of shape over her use of that word in the context that she used it. *shrug*
I'm not bent out of shape about her use of the word, but suggests she might use a different word as some are offended by it, and with the Gay rights issue in Russia causing some to call for a boycott of the Sochi Olympics I just didn't think it was a wise choice of word coming from a possible Olympian. Let her use the word while in Sochi, and see what happens.
Many words do have more than one meaning, but might still sting when used.
Senator Flake used the word similarly to Ashley and got in trouble for it.
I don't know the etymology of the word pansy, but the history of the word wuss is pretty offensive to me. Then again so is "sucks" and that has entered the general vocabulary as a pretty clean word.
I'm not getting bent out of shape about it - i merely noted it as soon as she said it. I loved the interview and I love how she came across, this was a minor blip in what was otherwise a good interview. I don't thing it makes a blind bit of difference that she used it referring to herself, I've heard kids being asked how the they did on a test and reply "gay" meaning bad, I've equally heard it response to how they played in a sporting event. Does it excuse the use because it's about themselves? For me it doesn't, but for me pansy only has two meanings - the flower and as a slur for gay people, so I think educating people about such things is important.
Thank you to everyone who has decided for me, as a gay man, what I should and should not take as offensive.
Um. I was kidding. Trying to lighten the mood, but I guess everyone is in a very serious mood here at FSU in this off-season ...
It's amazing how there are so many things to discuss about Ashley, like her new coaching and choreographer situation, and her plans to add a 3/3, but this is what we focus on.
Oh there's a whole other thread in GSD for that! Wagner picks Arutunian to join coaching team
While I enjoyed the interview, I think Ashley's sassiness is more controlled than genuine. Does that make sense?
But good for her to admit she is not naturally graceful, when some viewers would always deny it.
Who? I'm a fan, but graceful is definitely not the first word I would use to describe her. Not saying she's completely lacking in grace, because that isn't the case either, but powerful, dramatic, passionate, certainly describe her skating more accurately.
Ashley has excellent port de bras, leagues better than say, Yuna Kim. And yes she is graceful, not in a delicate effervescent way like Mao but, graceful nonetheless.
See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8A2nfgXrEU#t=4m12s
i would not say she is graceful but what i really need to know is, do you do a shot every time you type port de bras? it's your favorite thing
It is! It is! Carry your arms well or go home.
I don't have any issue with Ashley's use of 'pansy'. Having watched some of her videos and seen her interact with some of her best friends, I'm sure she did not intend to insult gays. The girl appears to have more gay friends than Lady Gaga and Madonna combined, and the fun they have is so genuine.
I thoroughly enjoyed the interview, I'm glad she brought her irreverence and got in the spirit of TSL. I think that this type of interview could get more people interested in skating, and a great update on the typical 'American Ice Princess smile-and-pretend' interviews we're so accustomed to seeing. It was snarky (and sometimes she tried a bit too hard), but as someone mentioned upthread she showed some great maturity/wisdom on the events that affected her profoundly (Not making Vancouver Olympics, Mills' internet diatribe, Nicks' decision not to travel). I don't suppose she intends to give Shirley Hughes a big hug the next time they meet.
GAYS MAY BE PROSECUTED AT OLYMPICS: fans and athletes not immune
Yes, this is a big issue, but do you think Ashley is promoting discrimination by calling herself a pansy because she chickened out on a jump?
Just because someone uses a slur to describe themselves does not mean it is any less offensive to the group of people the term was originally intended to harm. I'm not sure what your logic is behind that? If a male skater referred to himself as a "fag" because he missed his triple axel, would you not expect there to be any kind of uproar? The fact that words like 'fag' and 'pansy' have become synonymous with being weak AND are used to decribe a gay male are exactly the root of the problem. Continuing their use only reinforces the idea that gay men are weaker than their straight counterparts.
Do I think Ashley meant harm to the gay community with her choice of words? No. But, I also don't think children mean harm when using the word 'gay' as an adjective for 'weak' or 'stupid.' That doesn't mean I would sit in silence when it was used; in fact, if she is as big of a supporter as some are claiming, I would imagine Ashley would WANT to know that she accidentally used a word that has such a derogatory history so that she can avoid its use in the future.
Nobody thinks Ashley is evil for her choice of words and it is sad how defensive people are getting these days when gays point out something that is offensive to them. After all, we are slowly getting rights in a few states, can't we just be grateful and let things go?!
It is unacceptable for anyone to say something was gay when they did not like it (eg. that test was gay). Because that is directly associating gay with bad. It is not 100% the same thing when someone calls themselves a pansy when they chicken out of something. It's flawed to compare the two.
Everyone jumps to criticize Ashley for being contrived at times, but they jump right on her when she makes one borderline questionable word choice in a two hour interview where she spoke thousands of words. I'm sure everyone making a stink out of this would much rather hear Ashley Wagner the Robot speak boooooring contrived interviews where she never flubs a single word and bores us to tears in manicuring her word choices at all times. She has better things to do, like training for the olympics.
Pick your battles. Battle Russia and their appalling policies and laws, but don't battle a well-meaning athlete for one word.
Here are 5 things I hope we can all agree on:
1. People have a right to be offended by a word even if the person using it doesn't know it's offensive. You're free to be "meh", I'm free to be offended. Freedom rocks.
2. The worst thing to say to an offended or upset person is "lighten up and get over it". It makes them feel worse.
3. Ashley is not an evil b for using the word, and would probably be embarrassed and apologetic.
4. This horse has been beaten to death.
5. Talking about skating is more fun than this.
That was the best. Everything Ashley said made me understand where she's coming from and root for her. I like level-headed, aware, driven people like her. I think it was the perfect level of "going there" but keeping it digestible for the PC crowd. I feel like if I were surrounded people like her at work we'd get a hell of a lot more done and have a better time.
As I took a break between parts 1 and 2, I wondered about what will drive her at this year's Nationals and Olympics. There's a potential she could subconsciously slip into, "Meh, there are three spots, I'm guaranteed one of them." So I appreciate when at the end she said she's very aware that there are many girls gunning for her at Nationals, and that she has a long way to go to be on the Olympic podium. I'm glad that her goals don't just stop at making it to the Olympics, but clawing her way amongst the best because internationally, she's not yet one of the frontrunners.
What an illogical conclusion!