Trayvon Martin - Thread #2

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by DORISPULASKI, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not seeing any evidence to this? Did I miss something? His records are from his private physician and he supposedly refused follow-up appointment with ENT? I would think that you might want to have as many physicians see you to document this if you had been involved in a potential legal situation.
     
  2. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    The medical report and the photos, numbers. Unless you believe that these were self-inflicted and/or the report was falsified.
     
  3. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Pink Bitch

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    Thankfully, I do not, other than breaking up high school fights. However, if Trayvon's knuckles are bruised, then yes, I can believe he hit Zimmerman in the face, possibly in self-defense. But "repeatedly pounded into the pavement"? Nope.
     
  4. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Why not? How do you know exactly what injuries would result from that in a given individual? I personally do not.

    Are you saying that his refusal to f/u with ENT proves anything other that he refused to f/u with ENT? You are a nurse. You know how common patient non-compliance is, whether it makes sense or not, legally or otherwise.
     
  5. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that part of finding an "unbiased" jury is a little bit overblown in that respect, IMO. Scientists or medical professionals would be possibly biased against the evidence shown, NOT the defendant. Dismissing anyone who could have any prior background knowledge on the evidence ensures that the jury would pretty much HAVE to interpret the evidence the way the lawyers WANT you to interpret them. That's the part that bothered my sister. They only give you pieces of the evidence and then go, "Go into the jury room and find out the truth now!"

    I was dismissed from a jury once because we were asked if it was all right if we weren't given all the evidence. I said no, because I'm a scientist and I always want to see everything. IIRC the case was about a possibly gang-related assault on a police officer with a skateboard. I was actually glad I was dismissed, because I didn't want to drive downtown at 9am anymore. :p But still!
     
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  6. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Did he go to the Emergency Room? If he did, I must have missed the report, the first thing the cops ask you on the scene is if you would like medical attention, especially since one was already there.

    If you believe his personal doctor's report (and I don't say I do) he did seem beat up, with the wound on his head, the broken nose, bruises. Trayvon was said by the coroner to have bruised knuckles, so there was a scuffle. But the question is when did Zimmerman get his bruises?

    I would see many doctors but as soon as the injuries occur, especially since he wants everyone to believe that his life was in danger.
     
  7. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    Not that I would be involved in an accidental murder or self defense killing with a gun, but if i were I would be asking for more than one physician/clinic to confirm that I had been injured, just to cover my bases.

    And as a medical provider, you should know that one can falsify a medical record. Are there any insurance EOBs documenting the office visit or other typical documentation than an office medical record?
     
  8. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Yes, of course one can falsify a medical record. But you are asking someone like Z to be reasonable and plan for being charged and tried and covering his bases after he shot Martin. Why?

    I am sure this medical record will be scrutinized.
     
  9. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    You're kidding right?

    Lord knows, FL is another world, but when you shoot someone, and they die, even in FL, you'd have to be either arrogant beyond belief or rather dumb not to think that there might be an investigation, and plan accordingly.

    I can't say that I have the highest respect for medical examiners. It was the undertaker who pointed out to the medical examiner that multiple stab wounds was not a natural cause of death in my dad's case. The examiner didn't notice them. So a single medical opinion would not be enough for me, were I GZ.
     
  10. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I don't know. I've never shot someone and so cannot speak to a person's state of mind and their planning/reasoning capabilities after such an event. A lot of people may come unglued. Or may be he is normally an unreasonable person. Hasn't any medical professional here released a patient AMA?

    I recall having an ear infection and the ER doc recommended that I follow up with an ENT. I blew that off. And I never took the antibiotics he Rxed.

    Trying to make a case of him as an indication of anything for not seeing another doc isn't going to fly. The medical record needs to be checked out and verified.
     
  11. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    In regards to your question about AMA release - no, but I know that they do happen.

    If you weren't going to follow the directions of the ER physician, why did you go in the first place?

    I wasn't saying that he should or should not be convicted based upon the refusal to see another doctor, I am just saying that if I had been involved in a shooting, I think I would want to have any and all injuries documented. But then that's just me. And that I find it suspicious that the medical record comes out now with no indication that it existed before this or that he even saw his own physician the next day. Only that he refused treatment at the scene.
     
  12. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I wanted to know what was going on--the pain was rather intense, sudden onset. Once he confirmed otitis media, I took an NSAID, a decongestant and felt better. Since it was unlikely to have been a bacterial infection and it resolved completely, I saw no reason for antibiotics and ENT follow-up. I don't recommend this to others but patients are non-compliant all the time.
    I am not sure why people think that he should have acted the way they would have. He doesn't sound like your everyday reasonable person to begin with. Plus how do people know they would have the presence of mind to act a certain way. I am wondering if I would have, personally.

    But like you, I do wonder why the report wasn't made available sooner. I have been mentioning a medical report ever since this happened.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  13. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    The thing is, the guy has a history of changing his story. So that makes any medical records that suddenly show up after months of not being mentioned suspicious.

    But, in the end, it doesn't really matter to me. As I said at the time, IMO, he started it by stalking an innocent teenager. That puts him at fault and makes a mockery of any claims of self-defense.
     
  14. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    But it's not just Zimmerman--a doctor is putting his/her license and reputation on the line, being fully aware how significant this testimony and medical record is and how deeply probed it would be.

    As to the assault--should the medical record check out, the physical attack on Zimmerman would be confirmed. I would say it would change things.
     
  15. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    It doesn't change things for me because Zimmerman still started it. If he was "afraid" it was because of a situation he caused. It might make a difference in the eyes of the law but not everything that is legal is right or just.

    Also, he's still claiming he thought Trayvon had a gun when Skittles and bottles of ice tea look nothing like a gun. So the fact that he thought this boy had a gun shows that he was biased against him because of his skin color IMO.
     
  16. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    There is discussion that the judge may make a determination of "self defense" as a "matter of law".
    If so, there will be no trial.
    That's probably why the defense is pushing GZ's injuries to the forefront at the moment.

    They'd like the case to "disappear".
     
  17. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the case will disappear anytime in the next 2 decades.
     
  18. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are correct.
    However, the defense is really working toward the other outcome.
     
  19. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    ABC News is now reporting that Trayvon Martin had marijuana in his system that night.

    ABC News Article

    In addition,

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  20. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

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  21. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    The fact that there was marijuana in his system cannot be relevant to this. It is just a character issue that the defense may bring up.

    If there was really a struggle, GZ will still have to prove that it was serious enough for him to fear for his life.

    What's really wrong with the whole thing is that this self appointed 'guard' was carrying a gun, and he chased down the boy. Trayvon was fighting for his life too, it's just that he is not alive to prove it.

    Looks like GZ will escape without any sentence, being given the benefit of doubt.
     
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    If GZ was so scared for his life that he had to shoot the teen, his injuries need to be consistent with that. If he refused medical treatment in an ER, I would say the injuries were minor, and there was no reason for him to fear for his life. JMO of course.
     
  23. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    IMO, a lot of this shows the problems created for Zimmerman as well as for others by the police simply taking his word for things instead of properly investigating the matter. If the matter had been investigated and the medical evidence disclosed during a proper investigation, there would be much less confusion, disbelief, doubts about its credibility, etc, as opposed to the current posture (disclosure during the defense of criminal charges)
     
  24. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    You don't get to say whether the injuries were minor--the evaluating physician does.
     
  25. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    Your post reminded me of a Whoopi Goldberg bit. I tried to find it on youtube, but couldn't. Anyway, the bit was about Jessica Hahn and Bill Clinton. It went something like:

    I agree with your use of quotation marks in regards to Zimmerman being afraid. A truly scared person would have gone home as quickly as possible, locked all their doors and windows and then called the police.

    Ohmigosh...marijuana is known to make people hyper and aggressive, right??? :p
     
  26. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Marijuana is known to make people paranoid if they are having a bad trip.
     
  27. PeterG

    PeterG Hanyuflated

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    Would you call having some stranger follow you with a loaded gun a bad trip? ;)
     
  28. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Did Trayvon know Zimmerman had a loaded gun? And picked a fight with a guy who was packing????

    Why didn't Trayvon call 911 to say that some strange guy is following him?
     
  29. reckless

    reckless Well-Known Member

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    The article says he had THC and the family said it was "trace amounts." Depending on whether it was THC or a THC-byproduct, that could mean he smoked within a week of his death. Sometimes THC (not the byproduct) can stay in the blood for as much as 24 hours.
     
  30. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Trace amounts may also be explained by just being around others smoking marijuana, I would guess. If he was high at the time of his death, I would think he would have more than just trace amounts. I am not an expert in the matter, though.