Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Apr 19, 2012.
I confess, I love it
Sloopy? Well, whatever it is the Duchesnays supposedly lack, I can live without it.
I'm sure the yelling part is still present in many rinks
after all this people are born competitors so can you imagine the adrenaline inside the couple? i've heard of a soccher player who got his leg broken in a match but kept running for almost one hour. he was so driven that he wasn't even feeling the pain. yea, it must be the adrenaline. who knows, maybe it's the same when a skater falls badly but immediately gets up and keeps jumping and spinning.
in this magnificent FD there is a move from "Four seasons"
I don't remember much from 1992, but my favourites from 1998:
Krylova/Ovsiannikov - Carmen
Bourne/Kraatz - Riverdance
cruel rendition of Carmen, full of the dionisiacus that Nietzsche admired in the opera.
I liked that FD too. Looking at it again it was really quite intricate and full of detail. I like the costume but the black leggings do make her feet look quite big and probably hinders the leg line. But it is still a very clever program and they worked really well with the music.
Some Torvill/Dean love from a Brit who basically got into skating because of em:
94 OD Historia de Amour
Rahkamo/Kokko 95 OD One of my faves ever.
Duchesnay's 88 FD
AHH R&K's Borsalino--the program that spawned the Finnstep CD.
I also liked both version of the polka they did
The drunken sailor YP they skated at Skate America and the Lapland polka they used the rest of the year.
Pretty much anything they did was amazing.
I loved their La Strada FD
It's like 1997 again and am listing these performances at FSW...
R&K Red Moon FD
R&K Blondie&Dagwood* FD (*original title)
R&K Valse triste FD
Every move and gesture had a meaning. I guess I could have posted this in the "Versatile skaters" thread.
This is a great thread!
The early 90-ies probably were the only time when I enjoyed ice dancing the most, while I usually don't care for it so much. Some of U/Z & K/P programmes give me goose pimples till today, the purity of the Bach programme in particular. To me its just one of the very best. I was so happy when the won with all the discussion on D/D in the years before.
Personally I think D/D were pretty much politically pushed to break Russian dominance.
Thank you all for posting the links and bringing back the memories.
And here ist the year when I saw G/P for the first time:
It's their exhibition number, but Sirtaki was also teir LP that time. Fell in love with them that time (and my particular love was devoted to Evgenij Platov ).
I also love this FD from Grishuk & Platov from 1993. I personally liked it a lot better than Usova & Zhulin's FD as it was a lot more difficult. But one of the lifts seemed to be illegal (Platov's arm clearly above his shoulder). And the judges seemed to be tepid on this material.
You pay your dues in ice dancing work your way up gradually one step at a time unless you're russian
See how the scores were up before they even left the ice
Takes an age these days
Judy Blumberg and Michael Seibert
1982 Nationals - the program was 2 weeks old!
1984 Winter Olympics - Original Set Pattern
1984 Winter Olympics - FD
I don't often think that anyone "was robbed".
However, I think they really were at the Olympics.
I've always thought of them as the rightful "OSM" 's.
They were innovative, like Torvill and Dean, without imitating them.
Torvill and Dean regarded them as worthy competition,.
High praise, indeed.
I agree that they should've been 2nd at the 1984 Olympics but also at the 1983 Worlds as well.
Here's their 1983 FD - a re-vamping of their 1982 program.
Blumberg & Seibert (USA) - 1983 Worlds FD
My favorite Grishuk & Platov exhibition. Nagano Olympics - You'll See.
Again,agree.St James Infirmary was as dark as blues can get.I'd have it at first back then.And I was so angry when it almost cost them the 2nd place at Worlds.I still can't believe that Krylova/Fedorov were so promoted that season.
I remember our commentator saying that some judges,and commentators thought it was too much on the dark side,too sexy,too wild.I always thought that the part where he's trying to straggle her was so genuine
My favourite FD from that period remains K/P Bach FD.But I think that we had so many good programs because the groups used "real" choreographers with fresh ideas for ice dancing standards.
And my absolute favourite competition is still 1990 Europeans.My fair lady,Missing,U/Z Tango, Zorba the Greek (opa!) and R/K Tango.And the first time I watched ice dancing and got hooked.
[My favorite Grishuk & Platov exhibition. Nagano Olympics - You'll See.[/QUOTE]
Ooooh yes! What a diva
You tell me what ice dancer at the moment has that much presence ?
does K-O's Carmen include moves from modern dance, in your opinion?
i've read that Dean had a big influence on ice dance, like, 'he created what we know as ice dance' or something. is it true? do you think that teams of the 90's copied T/D?
Copied? Maybe not. Influenced by? Probably. Benefited from how T&D advanced the sport in a few short years? Absolutely.
in what ways did the advance it?
I can easily list think of non-Russian dance pairs, shooting up quickly though you might argue on their skating skills and if it was justified.
One of my favourite competitions too!
it's interesting to see how Russian dance became after the greats. Navka/Kostomarov and Domnina/Shabalin look the same to me. a skating that wants to be grand, but comes off cold or even empty in its virtuosism. dont know if its the COP...i.e., less freedom. and it seems a steady decline.
Not to take anything away from great champions Linichuk and Karponosov, but in 1980, a gold medal winning program looked like this. The program was a series of dissimilar dances pasted together to show mastery over all styles. (I must admit I giggled uncontrollably back in 1980 when I saw this great Soviet team segue into what passed for a hoedown dance!)
Even Torvill & Dean's dance was very traditional. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzeqrQGye_U
Two short years later, Torvill & Dean ignored the prevailing rules and introduced this program - not traditional dance at all, but a program with a theme and creative, unique moves that supported that theme. Mack and Mabel
In 1983, they ignored the rules again, and armed with a great deal of research, created together with Barnum star Michael Crawford the remarkable Barnum program. There are moments in this program that they move as two interlocking pieces of machinery, the moves are so complicated. One definitely feels as if they are attending a circus when they watch this. And of course, they shock everyone with the back flip. (As a side note, some of these moves come directly from the stage musical Barnum Incredible!)
And there was 1984's masterpiece, Bolero. They received criticism for this dance because they used not traditional dance music, but classical music with no discernable dance beat, and the rhythm of the music was pretty much the same throughout the program.
There were other programs of course, like the 1984 paso doble OSP where Jane actually "became" a matador's cape. No one had seen ice dance like this before, and if weren't for them, we wouldn't have had Klimova and Ponomarenko's Bach program, or the Carmens of B&B and K&O, the great programs of A&P, the list goes on. And they heavily influenced the Finns R&K, who carried their creativity even further.
It may be hard in hindsight to appreciate T&D's contributions because we are used to today's programs, but for those of us who lived that period, what they did and achieved was astonishing.
I think nuge was slighty mocking Sandra Bezic's comment in the video posted prior to his/her post.
Little bit of both, but I don't think they look that similar.
But I love love love COP dance..
P and K trained with Torvill and Dean - and Mrs, Calloway - for at least part of the season for several years.
T and D's influence and inspiration was "all over" their skating, throughout their career.
thank you so much, pollyanna! your post is really appreciated. i love learning from people in 'real time' instead that always from websites or books.
wow, you dont read this everyday :-D
may i ask you, what you like in it?
You're welcome. And I appreciate your questions and your desire to learn about figure skating history. There's a wealth of knowledge here at FSU!
The combination of the athletic and artistic. The way both dancers should be even in a way that wasn't true in the past (Margaglio, Lobacheva). The crazy awesome beautiful lifts.
I don't think it was about T&D ignoring or breaking the rules. They had to work within them. But it was probably more at the time doing things that no-one else had considered and did leave open questions to how they had interpreted them. And it was also about using every single bit of the music to create a mood or action. Even today a program like Mack or Mabel or Barnum can be held up as a standard of interpretation and choreography that very few skaters, whether they are singles, pairs or ice dancers, have achieved. Under IJS those programs are definately a 10 for components.
It also wasn't just about the OSP and FD. They achieved a standard in compulsories that no-one else has ever done. Their compulsories got 6.0s as well and well deserved. No fluff - just pure skating.
T&D definitely did not always work within the rules. For example, women weren't allowed to be lifted above the man's shoulder. But the flip in Barnum definitely broke that rule. And the 1984 music broke the rules, and one or so of the judges at 1984 Euros dinged them for it. There was much talk about their music at the time, and many wondered if they would lose the Olympic title since they weren't following the rules.
And remember during their 1994 comeback, many wondered if they would choose to stick to the strict rules at that time, or choose to break them again.
Absolutely agree with this, in fact, I had started another post addressing this, but decided I had already been chatty enough and deleted it.
I also couldn't believe Krylova & Federov were promoted so heavily as well at those worlds. I would've placed them behind a number of teams who finished behind them. The Finns had a weak waltz OD that year but their FD was nice (albeit light on the content). I also really like this FD from Tatiana Navka & Samvel Gezalian.
He's not as strong a skater as she is but this program had nice choreography (hell, I found it more difficult than Usova & Zhulin's).
Torvill & Dean's compulsories in Sarajevo were absolutely stunning! They are the golden standard.
I thought the rule was that the man couldn't lift his hands above his shoulders, not so much that the woman couldn't go above his shoulders. I just had a look at autobiography and at Euros in 1983 they did get an illegal element count but changed it for worlds.
In hindsight it really was all quite silly and it didn't cost them anything because they were still the best out there during that time. I think the whole "breaking the rules" was more a perception about what had been accepted in ice dance until that point of time and they broke the mould. Whatever they did transcend that.
ITA, especially about the both dancers thing! I couldn't believe Margaglio face planted at the '02 Olympics and they still won bronze! B&K WUZROBBED!
I liked Navka/Kostomarov but they were a bit boring compared to Grishuk/Platov and Krylova/Ovsiannikov.. I never liked Usova/Zhulin for some reason, they weren't boring but I didn't find them pleasant somehow.. Domnina/Shabalin shouldn't even be counted as among the Russian greats. Their OD at the 2010 Olympics was an out and out farce, and they shouldn't have won the 2009 Worlds. Every time I rewatch their performance at that compared to Belbin and Agosto's, I cannot understand what the judges were thinking placing D&S ahead (well, maybe thinking about politics ).
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