The Third US Lady

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lilshorty, Mar 17, 2013.

Who will be the third U.S. lady at the Olympics?

  1. Alissa Czisny

    21 vote(s)
    9.6%
  2. Rachael Flatt

    5 vote(s)
    2.3%
  3. Christina Gao

    104 vote(s)
    47.5%
  4. Courtney Hicks

    12 vote(s)
    5.5%
  5. Mirai Nagasu

    40 vote(s)
    18.3%
  6. Agnes Zawadzki

    29 vote(s)
    13.2%
  7. Caroline Zhang

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  8. Other (Please Specify)

    5 vote(s)
    2.3%
  1. Smiley0884

    Smiley0884 Well-Known Member

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    Christina Gao had a very respectable season, definitely not lackluster. I don't think she will ever be rewarded by the national judges for some reason, but I hope I'm wrong. It's way too early to make any predictions, but I could see the third spot going to Zawadksi, Hicks, or even Czisny if she manages to get healthy and skate reasonably clean.

    I love Mirai, but I think the USFS is done with her :(
     
  2. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    Czisny is not going to skate at her 2010-2011 level. She is old, eat up with injuries, and it is obvious that was a fluke year for her as she never came close to her consistency and form that year any other time. In her 2010-2011 level she would be a lock for the 3rd spot but she wont reach that. Even not at her 2010-2011 level she will be gifted 3rd behind locks Wagner and Gold though if she still has those amazing spins and does clean short with 4 triple long. Without those spins she is toast.
     
  3. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I'm leaning towards Gao and Wang...possibly Hicks.

    Gao has been working hard and had a fantastic season even though they completely screwed her at nationals. I really hope she can add more fire and KABLAM!! to her skating to really grab the judges' attention and make them take notice of her.

    Wang has struggled with consistency particularly in the SP but she's a jumping powerhouse. All 5 triples including a 3Lz-3T, excellent technique, lovely flow and presentation...she just needs consistency.

    Hicks is still clunky to me but she's getting better. Despite how huge her jumps are she needs to work on her UR issues as well as better presentation.

    I'd love to see Mirai have a breakout season of sorts but she will get no help from the USFSA (they made that clear this year) so it will have to come from her 100%.

    I don't think Alissa will be in the mix. I doubt if she'd be able to survive the intense practice grind necessary to compete at the level she needs to. She's where Michelle was in 2006; she wants to keep competing but her body is throwing in the towel.

    I doubt if Rachael will come back either.

    I love Caroline but she doesn't have a shot either.

    I can't wait to see how everyone does on the GP next season.
     
  4. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    US judges LOVE Agnes and her solid basic skating. She has had endless flawed skates at Nationals and has been rewarded for them year after year (2 US bronze medals in a row for performances littered with major mistakes). I think the difference between her and some of the other girls is that when she falls on jumps, she still manages to get her 3 rotations in and doesn't get wrong edge entry calls unlike Czisny, Nagasu, Flatt, and Zhang. Agnes also skates faster and achieves greater amplitude on her jumps than those 4 ladies. My personal choice for the 3rd spot though would be Christina Gao because I feel she has so often gotten the short end of the stick and doesn't receive the benefit of the doubt like so many of these other ladies do. I believe it's time that Gao finally gets a fair shake! I'm so tired of seeing Agnes be held up time and time again on US ice just because of her potential. If she skates decently though, I'd be shocked if the US judges didn't select Zawadzki.
     
    Smiley0884 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. centerstage01

    centerstage01 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai wouldn't just have to have the skate of her life at Nationals, she'll have to have the season of her life next year. I love her and want to see her get that third spot, but her constantly under-rotated jumps and negative demeanor the last few seasons are not going to put her top in the minds of judges and officials. She's not the chipper, happy-go-lucky Mirai of 2010 anymore. I think the judges WANT to score her well, she just doesn't seem to want to give them the opportunity. I say all this as one of Mirai's biggest fans, but it's time to face facts.

    If they were choosing right now, I'd go with Christina Gao. Zawadski's still too much of a headcase and Hicks, while her jumps are fantastic, really, REALLY needs to work on her style and choreography. Alissa's injuries the last two years will be too much of a hurdle to overcome. I hope against hope she proves me wrong, but I don't see her making the Oly team.
     
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  6. Skater91

    Skater91 Member

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    I hope Rachael Flatt get her stuff together!

    My Wishes for US Olympic spots are

    1. Courtney Hicks
    2. Rachael Flatt
    3 Mirai Nagasu
     
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    You mean in order of which you would like to be the 3rd American most or that is what you would like to be your whole Olympic team? If the latter to each their own, if you dont mind the embarassment of no Americans finishing in the top 15 at the Olympics with a 3 women team, LOL!
     
  8. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I like so many US ladies it's hard for me to pick one to root for. Whoever it is, as long as the jump and spin calls are good and PCS is marked reasonably correctly at US nationals.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  9. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Like non-jump elements and quality of skating, for example?
     
  10. Skater91

    Skater91 Member

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    I wish that was the team for the USA. If it went down to out of those 3 who I would give the 3rd spot to, it would be Flatt!

    I am not an American and I these are the only current US ladies I actually like to watch.

    I really don't care what they place. I have favourite skaters from other countries I am rooting for more.

    I would like Agnes Z and Angela Wang to get a chance to go.

    If people have seen my post before they know I hate Ashley Wagner.
     
  11. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Even then people argued about how slow she was compared to the other American skaters and her lack of difficult transitions in-between the elements (lots of two foot skating). Her spins were excellent, but it's not as if American skaters are exactly lacking in that department.

    Regarding music and interpretation, people criticized her for skating pretty and daring to have great posture and line and would rather have her try to skate looser with more freedom with different styles of music. Yet, despite all of that, her PCS were pretty high and her jumps never seemed to be dinged as much as say Nagasu when Czisny skated decently.
     
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The USFSA lovefest with Flatt and Czisny over the years always baffled me. I did like both for the most part, I respected Flatt's consistency and toughness, and I admired certain things about Czisny's skating. Still to be so heavy in favoring, to the point of even going out of their way to either overmark or hold up both a journeywomen type who was just steady like Flatt, and a veteran headcase who was slow and a poor jumper like Czisny....well the USFSA had alot to do with the 5 year drought of U.S ladies not having 3 spots I think. In their defense I will say Flatt definitely deserved to compete at the 2010 Olympics, and Czisny definitely deserved to go to the 2011 Worlds as U.S Champion and U.S #1. Beyond that however...
     
  13. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well hindsight is 20/20. Czisny had the best GP results in the 2011-2012 season going into Nationals, and her base score was slightly higher than Agnes (who ended up placing 7th in the LP) and PCS was only higher by like two points. Christina Gao may have been underscored, but her she lost about four points for not doing the 3/2/2 in TES plus another 4-5 points for singling her Salchow which explains why her base value was only slightly better than Czisny's. Of course Agnes and Caroline Zhang would have done better than placing in the 20s at Worlds like Czisny ended up doing (especially considering that Zhang's overall score at Four Continents would have placed her fifth at Worlds in 2012 and Czisny's very low GPF LP score, after scoring high in the SP, turned out to be better than her Worlds score). However, it's not as if she didn't have a legitimate reason to be named to the Worlds team at the time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    True, hindsight is 20/20 but I can honestly say I felt and said at the time that Wagner should have been 1st or 2nd at the 08 Nationals (of course didnt mean diddley squat to who went to Worlds that year), Zhang and Flatt should have both easily beaten Czisny at the 2009 Nationals, Nagasu should have won the 2010 Nationals, Nagasu should have been 2nd and on the World team instead of Flatt in 2011, and that Zhang should have been 2nd in 2012. I felt that way directly after their National skates and not with the benefit of hindsight. I actually would have feared how Zhang would do at Worlds in 2012 even after thinking she was lowballed at Nationals, but then she was well received by 4CCs judges it turned out.

    Still I see your point totally on 2012, but the judges had no reason to hold up Czisny in 2009 and to some degree Flatt in 2011. Neither had done anything that season to warrant being protected.
     
  15. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I would not call Czisny's 2010-2011 season a fluke. She was incredibly strong throughout the season. A fluke insinuates the skater has just one good performance at the right time. Czisny was consistent, just sadly her consistency did not last beyond one season. Every skater has a peak in their career, and 2010-2011 was hers.
     
  16. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    I am 100% this would NOT be the team, there is no way they would send 3 people who have not been at worlds in years; they will send at least 1 who went to worlds this year, probably two. Flatt has not been seriously training and she was not even that great when she was skating she would be lucky to crack top 10 in this much stronger field today. Hicks has not had time to develop PCS, and is just a good jumper, I don't see them taking her over Gao or Agnes.

    I love Mirai, and would love to see her go. If she is on, and she gets her edge issues sorted out, she is one of the only ones that has a chance to medal so if she skates well next year and they are thinking medals, Mirai, on a great day, could potentially medal. I don't see Agnes or Gao or Ashley being able to medal, even if they skate great.
    Mirai has the highest standing against the competitors who will be in the competition at the Olympics - 4th place in a competition with both Mao and Yuna, and she won the short program against Yuna. If she skated to 2010 levels and improves from that, she could be a real surprise. Ashely finished 4th at worlds too but it was against a Mao who just lost her mother as well as no Yuna. Ashley has not shown us she can beat the top 3 if they skate great.
     
  17. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Mirai's 4th in Vancouver was her last great performance. She's been getting UR calls from both US and ISU judges in just about every event since then, and she hasn't been the same performer, either. All the exuberance has gone out of her performances and her FSs in particular are robotic, joyless and devoid of musicality. She just doesn't seem to want to skate any more. Mirai would be on the bottom of my list of potential US Olympic competitors. She has the talent, but not the will to excel.
     
  18. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Which is sad for someone like Caroline Zhang who has the will, but has been doomed thanks to her faulty jump technique and skating skills.
     
  19. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I would love the 3rd spot go to one of the younger ladies like Hicks or Wang. Yes they have never been to Senior Worlds or even been on the Senior GP series but it would be great experience for them. I really don't want to see Alissa or Mirai make the team. Time to turn the page.
     
  20. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    World Team assignments are based on the seasons results. That explains some of the team choices IMO.

    '08 Nationals...Wagner probably should have been 2nd. Still confused as to how she wasn't 2nd. But, as you said, it did not matter in terms of World team selection as Nagasu and Flatt were too young, and went to Jr Worlds. Wagner had a respectable 4CC but really struggled in her FS at '08 Worlds.

    Czisny's win in '09 was another head scratcher, and it pretty much was a window into her performance at '09 Worlds in LA. Flatt stepped up to the plate and delivered, seemingly unfazed by the event. A good showing for a 16 yo.

    In 2010-2011...Flatt had had a very good SGP season, silver medals in both events, and winning the FS portion of those events. Not such a great SGPF due to injury, but by US Nationals, looked good whereas Nagasu struggled in her 1st SGP in China (5th in the FS...87.5 pts), pulled up in her 2nd SGP in France where she got the silver medal (won the FS) , but stuggled abit again in her FS at US Championships. Mirai's only really strong FS of the season...hit it out of the park... was at 4CC that year. So, some up and down in her performances, and that probably played into the team selection process.

    The monitoring issue comes up in every discussion on World Team selection. I still believe that USFS needs to rethink the process, and look at it like the US Ski team approach, where the athletes are seen competing and training by officials almost every week of the competitive season, which also has many more events that the athletes can compete it. Oh yeah, wait...there is still crowd support and $$ in that sport. :-/
     
  21. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    Yes that is true, Mirai also had a great short program at 2010 worlds and since then it has been downhill. I do, however, feel that Mirai would do better as the third skater w no expectations on her. If she made the team, with everyone thinking she will fail or not amount to much, I think she could do quite well IF (a big if ) she gets her fighting spirit back.

    Most people on this board think Mirai is over and to a certain extent that may be true. But on sheet talent alone, Mirai, if she skated like she did before, could medal. If she skates well on GP next season, it will be a decision, whether to go w sure bets who will have a top 10 performance at best (Gao, who I expect will go back to school after the Olympics) or Agnes (who i think will quit after next year especially if not make olympics bc she indicated before she wants to quit) or one of the younger girls for experience alone in prep for 2018 OR go with wild card with potentially big return (Mirai). I do not think Agnes or Gao will stick around for 2018 and I don't see them picking one of the younger girls over them for that third spot, so from a USFS perspective, Mirai offers a more attractive option bc if she is skating well enough to get on the team she could potentially medal whereas I do not see Gao or Agnes medaling,

    Mirai is still young, and we could easily have written off Carolina years ago after she completely bombed multiple times in intl competition. Alissa, too, she didn't do well last year but if we would have written her off after 2010 we would not have seen how good she was in later seasons... If Mirai were not so good I would write her off too but since we got that third spot, I would be willing to see how she does next season and if she is doing well, I would give her that spot. Granted she has to show she deserves it, but if she skates to ability she will place in top 3 at nationals.
     
    Coco and (deleted member) like this.
  22. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think she doesn't have any presentation at all currently. She puts in the effort, but it is really ineffective, generic, and calls into question her basic dance ability.
     
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Mirai was better at 2011 4CC's.

    Carolina was a noted headcase from '06 - '10. That's 4 years. So, there possibly is time for Mirai, who turns 20 this year, to finally realize her dream.
     
  24. icellist

    icellist Member

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    I strongly believe Mirai is still a contender in the US. I think the biggest problem for her the past few years have been her programs. The choreography for her past 3 LPs do not bring out the best of her qualities. I mean seriously, Spartacus has to be one of the worst programs Lori Nichol has choreographed. I see Mirai where Ashley was before the 2010 Olympic year. Mirai has medalled in at least 1 GP and been alternate for the GPF in the past 3 years. It shocks me that people on this forum are saying 'She doesn't want to skate anymore'. There have been no interviews in which Mirai said she wants to quit. To me, it seems Mirai is taking responsibility for her skating and balancing her family situation by leaving Frank, work with the coaches in her area and increase her off-ice conditioning. It seems like Frank tried to rush Mirai's maturation by skating to sophisticated programs and Mirai took that lesson with her the next season, but she should really be skating to whatever she likes or empowers her. Mirai has said that she lacks funding to hire top choreographers (like Lori Nichol who stopped giving Mirai good programs after she left Wong, except for POTC). She could go for Braden Overett or Cindy Stuart. Susan Austin just isn't in the same league, choreographing for juniors: you can easily see the difference in the step sequences. Jumps wise, Mirai has very similar jumping technique with Akiko Suzuki and will do well once she gets the rotation and gets rid of the hooking technique she learned from Wong. And people keep complaining that USFS has given her so many chances. USFS gave Flatt, Czisny, and Zawadski numerous chances. Mirai should've went to worlds in 2011. for the 2013 GPs, Mirai had a top 24 WR and top 11 SB and was bypassed a second GP for Zawadski. Even both of Zawadski's bronze medals at nationals are argued.

    Christina had a really good GP this year but she skated amongst an easier field than Mirai who had to face Korpi, Suzuki, Asada, and Lipnitskaya (before concussion). If Mirai had rightfully won silver at NHK without Asada's rep-scoring, Mirai would have won the tiebreaker and gone to GPF. Christina really should have been bronze at nationals and had a very respectable 4CC. Christina has grown immensely this season artistically. IMO, Christina Gao and Mirai Nagasu seem to be on an even field. I really hope one of them get chosen for WTT for the first time.

    Back to the OT. USFS will do no favors for Flatt and Czisny if they return. They will continuously prop Zawadski. I am very confused by their support for sloppy Hicks at nationals. I don't even think Wagner and Gold's place on the team is set in stone either.

    Wagner, Gold, Zawadski, Gao and Nagasu all have a chance to go to Sochi, but I'd rather it not be Zawadski who has shown the least consistency of the five.

    In the chance that USFS wants to send a newcomer, I hope they promote Angela Wang and that she gets sent to Worlds because she will still be around for 2018 and seems to be the future of US figure skating along with Gold.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  25. icellist

    icellist Member

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    I also know this is the wrong thread but I'm on a roll and continuing. Out of the US ladies, I see Czisny and Nagasu as great coaches for the future of US. Both have impeccable carriage and seem to love what they do. Czisny won't be a technical coach but she can surely teach spins. Both of them also have the best skating skills of the bunch too. While everyone has been gawking over Wagner's power the past 2 seasons, her skating skills are still thin compared to Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner. Edge and blade work wise, Czisny and Nagasu have shown great aptitude in these areas (check out their programs pre-2012), while Czisny lacks in power. Gracie is improving this area by working with ice dancing coaches and Angela Wang has a good basic skating skills like Nagasu circa Charlene Wong.

    Still, the rest of the world's ladies don't hold a candle next to Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Akiko Suzuki, and (to a lesser extent) Mao Asada's step sequences.
     
  26. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai has a shot but IMO her odds are much lower than Gao, and Zawadzki too. I'd be surprised if she gets it. And Agnes is only 18, I would be very surprised if she retires after 2014. Christina I can see it because she goes to Harvard and wants to be a doctor, seeing as she already started, I'd doubt she'd want to take several years in a row off, unless she goes back to doing both after the Olympics. Agnes is at college but UC Colorado Springs, right near where she trains and I don't think she's even a full time student so to me, her situation is different and I'd be very surprised if she doesn't stick around until, or after, 2018, especially if she doesn't make the Olympic team next season.
     
  27. Simone411

    Simone411 Just Flip-Flopping Around

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    I voted for Christina, but I also believe that Agnes and Courtney could possibly have a good chance.
     
  28. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Did Mirai do anything to the mother of the USFSA president? I don't know why she is unpopular, but perhaps the USFSA thinks she needs toughness and criticism. They have given her few breaks. Despite Agnes "skating like garbage"--as JudgeJudy puts it--at grand prixs, nationals, and four continents, Zawadzski seems popular among the NBC commentators and the USFSA judges.
     
  29. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    The commentators noted that Agnes was thinking about quitting last year but she kept going. If she does not make Sochi, I am not sure if she will have the will to continue competing, if she already had qualms about continuing. It takes a lot of internal strength I think to suffer such big disappointment in not making an Olympic team and then continue on for 4 long hard years. I admire Ashley for her resolve in that front, b/c it must have been super hard to get passed over in 2010. I think if that happens to Agnes, I am not so sure she will take the same approach as Ashley- she may just end up quitting. Christina will have to make a choice, I see her as being a Sarah Hughes, where she will compete in Olympics, if chosen, then continue on with her school life; no matter what happens, I don't think she will continue on to 2018, unless she is like Emily Hughes, takes some time off, then comes back once she is done college.

    For Ashley, Mirai, Gracie, skating is their life, isn't it? They have no plans of going to school? Ashley may continue on to 2016 if she wants a world medal but I don't see her continuing to 2018. Gracie, and Mirai, maybe. As long as Mirai can afford to do so, I don't see why Mirai would quit if she wants to continue skating...
     
  30. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The direction Mirai is going in I dont see her staying until 2018. How would she motivate herself to continue once she is down in 12th or 14th at Nationals. USFSA dumpage is not a pretty thing as we have seen with Zhang and others, and that plus she would probably be well past her prime skating wise by then considering she is already somewhat past it now.