The Third US Lady

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lilshorty, Mar 17, 2013.

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Who will be the third U.S. lady at the Olympics?

  1. Alissa Czisny

    21 vote(s)
    9.6%
  2. Rachael Flatt

    5 vote(s)
    2.3%
  3. Christina Gao

    104 vote(s)
    47.5%
  4. Courtney Hicks

    12 vote(s)
    5.5%
  5. Mirai Nagasu

    40 vote(s)
    18.3%
  6. Agnes Zawadzki

    29 vote(s)
    13.2%
  7. Caroline Zhang

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  8. Other (Please Specify)

    5 vote(s)
    2.3%
  1. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    Yes that is true, Mirai also had a great short program at 2010 worlds and since then it has been downhill. I do, however, feel that Mirai would do better as the third skater w no expectations on her. If she made the team, with everyone thinking she will fail or not amount to much, I think she could do quite well IF (a big if ) she gets her fighting spirit back.

    Most people on this board think Mirai is over and to a certain extent that may be true. But on sheet talent alone, Mirai, if she skated like she did before, could medal. If she skates well on GP next season, it will be a decision, whether to go w sure bets who will have a top 10 performance at best (Gao, who I expect will go back to school after the Olympics) or Agnes (who i think will quit after next year especially if not make olympics bc she indicated before she wants to quit) or one of the younger girls for experience alone in prep for 2018 OR go with wild card with potentially big return (Mirai). I do not think Agnes or Gao will stick around for 2018 and I don't see them picking one of the younger girls over them for that third spot, so from a USFS perspective, Mirai offers a more attractive option bc if she is skating well enough to get on the team she could potentially medal whereas I do not see Gao or Agnes medaling,

    Mirai is still young, and we could easily have written off Carolina years ago after she completely bombed multiple times in intl competition. Alissa, too, she didn't do well last year but if we would have written her off after 2010 we would not have seen how good she was in later seasons... If Mirai were not so good I would write her off too but since we got that third spot, I would be willing to see how she does next season and if she is doing well, I would give her that spot. Granted she has to show she deserves it, but if she skates to ability she will place in top 3 at nationals.
    Coco and (deleted member) like this.
  2. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think she doesn't have any presentation at all currently. She puts in the effort, but it is really ineffective, generic, and calls into question her basic dance ability.
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Mirai was better at 2011 4CC's.

    Carolina was a noted headcase from '06 - '10. That's 4 years. So, there possibly is time for Mirai, who turns 20 this year, to finally realize her dream.
  4. icellist

    icellist New Member

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    I strongly believe Mirai is still a contender in the US. I think the biggest problem for her the past few years have been her programs. The choreography for her past 3 LPs do not bring out the best of her qualities. I mean seriously, Spartacus has to be one of the worst programs Lori Nichol has choreographed. I see Mirai where Ashley was before the 2010 Olympic year. Mirai has medalled in at least 1 GP and been alternate for the GPF in the past 3 years. It shocks me that people on this forum are saying 'She doesn't want to skate anymore'. There have been no interviews in which Mirai said she wants to quit. To me, it seems Mirai is taking responsibility for her skating and balancing her family situation by leaving Frank, work with the coaches in her area and increase her off-ice conditioning. It seems like Frank tried to rush Mirai's maturation by skating to sophisticated programs and Mirai took that lesson with her the next season, but she should really be skating to whatever she likes or empowers her. Mirai has said that she lacks funding to hire top choreographers (like Lori Nichol who stopped giving Mirai good programs after she left Wong, except for POTC). She could go for Braden Overett or Cindy Stuart. Susan Austin just isn't in the same league, choreographing for juniors: you can easily see the difference in the step sequences. Jumps wise, Mirai has very similar jumping technique with Akiko Suzuki and will do well once she gets the rotation and gets rid of the hooking technique she learned from Wong. And people keep complaining that USFS has given her so many chances. USFS gave Flatt, Czisny, and Zawadski numerous chances. Mirai should've went to worlds in 2011. for the 2013 GPs, Mirai had a top 24 WR and top 11 SB and was bypassed a second GP for Zawadski. Even both of Zawadski's bronze medals at nationals are argued.

    Christina had a really good GP this year but she skated amongst an easier field than Mirai who had to face Korpi, Suzuki, Asada, and Lipnitskaya (before concussion). If Mirai had rightfully won silver at NHK without Asada's rep-scoring, Mirai would have won the tiebreaker and gone to GPF. Christina really should have been bronze at nationals and had a very respectable 4CC. Christina has grown immensely this season artistically. IMO, Christina Gao and Mirai Nagasu seem to be on an even field. I really hope one of them get chosen for WTT for the first time.

    Back to the OT. USFS will do no favors for Flatt and Czisny if they return. They will continuously prop Zawadski. I am very confused by their support for sloppy Hicks at nationals. I don't even think Wagner and Gold's place on the team is set in stone either.

    Wagner, Gold, Zawadski, Gao and Nagasu all have a chance to go to Sochi, but I'd rather it not be Zawadski who has shown the least consistency of the five.

    In the chance that USFS wants to send a newcomer, I hope they promote Angela Wang and that she gets sent to Worlds because she will still be around for 2018 and seems to be the future of US figure skating along with Gold.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  5. icellist

    icellist New Member

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    I also know this is the wrong thread but I'm on a roll and continuing. Out of the US ladies, I see Czisny and Nagasu as great coaches for the future of US. Both have impeccable carriage and seem to love what they do. Czisny won't be a technical coach but she can surely teach spins. Both of them also have the best skating skills of the bunch too. While everyone has been gawking over Wagner's power the past 2 seasons, her skating skills are still thin compared to Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner. Edge and blade work wise, Czisny and Nagasu have shown great aptitude in these areas (check out their programs pre-2012), while Czisny lacks in power. Gracie is improving this area by working with ice dancing coaches and Angela Wang has a good basic skating skills like Nagasu circa Charlene Wong.

    Still, the rest of the world's ladies don't hold a candle next to Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Akiko Suzuki, and (to a lesser extent) Mao Asada's step sequences.
  6. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai has a shot but IMO her odds are much lower than Gao, and Zawadzki too. I'd be surprised if she gets it. And Agnes is only 18, I would be very surprised if she retires after 2014. Christina I can see it because she goes to Harvard and wants to be a doctor, seeing as she already started, I'd doubt she'd want to take several years in a row off, unless she goes back to doing both after the Olympics. Agnes is at college but UC Colorado Springs, right near where she trains and I don't think she's even a full time student so to me, her situation is different and I'd be very surprised if she doesn't stick around until, or after, 2018, especially if she doesn't make the Olympic team next season.
  7. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    I voted for Christina, but I also believe that Agnes and Courtney could possibly have a good chance.
  8. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Did Mirai do anything to the mother of the USFSA president? I don't know why she is unpopular, but perhaps the USFSA thinks she needs toughness and criticism. They have given her few breaks. Despite Agnes "skating like garbage"--as JudgeJudy puts it--at grand prixs, nationals, and four continents, Zawadzski seems popular among the NBC commentators and the USFSA judges.
  9. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    The commentators noted that Agnes was thinking about quitting last year but she kept going. If she does not make Sochi, I am not sure if she will have the will to continue competing, if she already had qualms about continuing. It takes a lot of internal strength I think to suffer such big disappointment in not making an Olympic team and then continue on for 4 long hard years. I admire Ashley for her resolve in that front, b/c it must have been super hard to get passed over in 2010. I think if that happens to Agnes, I am not so sure she will take the same approach as Ashley- she may just end up quitting. Christina will have to make a choice, I see her as being a Sarah Hughes, where she will compete in Olympics, if chosen, then continue on with her school life; no matter what happens, I don't think she will continue on to 2018, unless she is like Emily Hughes, takes some time off, then comes back once she is done college.

    For Ashley, Mirai, Gracie, skating is their life, isn't it? They have no plans of going to school? Ashley may continue on to 2016 if she wants a world medal but I don't see her continuing to 2018. Gracie, and Mirai, maybe. As long as Mirai can afford to do so, I don't see why Mirai would quit if she wants to continue skating...
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The direction Mirai is going in I dont see her staying until 2018. How would she motivate herself to continue once she is down in 12th or 14th at Nationals. USFSA dumpage is not a pretty thing as we have seen with Zhang and others, and that plus she would probably be well past her prime skating wise by then considering she is already somewhat past it now.
  11. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I hate to say this, but I don't know of any "headcases" who have made winning coaches, so Czisny seems wrong for that job.

    Are there any? Brian Orser maybe, but he had a lot of great competitions.
  12. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Is Frank Carroll coaching a top Senior lady at this time?
  13. worldsnice12

    worldsnice12 New Member

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    Very well said!
    I will never give up on Mirai and cannot understand why she would be considered as a "past number".I think she did pretty good this season and scoring rather well despite being a late season bloomer(something she has not been able to show us since 2011 4CC as she has not been selected to any major competitions..).
    It is always interesting to listen to the French/UK Eurosport because they really seems to like her and most recently they thought she would have won the silver at NHK.Obviously,she could have done better in her Nationals LP but I loved her SP and that 3T/3T was the best of the season.It was rather sad to see how the judges buried her in the LP as I do not think she was worse than Agnes in that part of the competition.
    It is such a shame that her UR's are killing her especially as they are not always obvious for the general public but I hope that there is a way for her to get those landings "cleaned up" before the next season?Also, I hope she will find programs that appeal to her as much as they are supposed to appeal to the judges/public.I got the feeling that she really liked her SP this year and maybe she simply needs upbeat music for both of her programs?
    In the end of the day,she should have as much chance to get on the Olympic team as the other girls.I just wonder if she will get a second GP or if she will be "overlooked"..
  14. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    And don't forget too that Mirai was very sick w the flu at nationals, she did very well regardless. I would like to see two skates from her when she is healthy and see how she compares...
  15. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Do any juniors, like Barbie Long, want to try to go?
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Wouldn't anyone who competes Senior at Nationals next season have the dream of going to the Olympics? ;)

    I don't know of any right now, mainly due to the inconvenient location of his rink.

    I posted this in the U.S. Ladies thread yesterday:
  17. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Heck, I'd go to the Olympics if they'd send me. (Not sure my waltz jump is going to get many points though... I could maybe do a L2 spin with negative GOE.)
  18. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    :) :) :)
  19. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    She didn't have the flu when she competed in the GP. At Cup of China, all of her triple jumps in the FS were UR or DG, and some of her doubles as well. At NHK, where she won silver, she received 4 URs in the FS.

    Mirai has learned a faulty jump technique and she won't succeed until she fixes it, if she even can fix it.
  20. worldsnice12

    worldsnice12 New Member

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    True,her technique is not good enough..but, in previous years (at least in 2010 and again at 4CC 2011) she got better spring/height in and out of her jumps later in the season when her programs had more mileage..
    Look at Mao,she is very up and down with her UR's but she generally have fantastic programs to rely on.I don't think Mao or some of the other ladies are miles ahead when it comes to skating skills and Mirai has lovely nice arms and a good steady upper body.I wish she would/could try to find a choreographer that "understands" her and could really play with her strenght and personality..
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  21. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree Mirai has to completely strip her technique done if she is to conquer her problem with URs. She cant afford a single mistake in most of her competitions next year, especialy Nationals, if she has Sochi aspirations. That is risky to try and do in just one year though. I dont envy her, she is in a tough spot.
  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Polina Edmunds works with him on Sundays in Palm Springs, she will skate as a senior domestically next season.
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    What country does she compete for?
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
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  25. analia

    analia Member

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    I hope for Christina Gao or Samantha Cesario. Mirai needs to slim down. It's so odd that Asian-Americans generally have bigger frame than people from their original countries. Somehow I think Mirai should train in Japan for a while to learn their way of doing things.
  26. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Judy, we all think with our hearts. I think if we wanted to think with our heads we would all be on a chess discussion board.
  27. b-man

    b-man Active Member

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    Agree. I have been thinking for the last year it would help her training part time in Japan in that competitive environment.
  28. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Oy, ....What makes you the expert on skater's optimal weight?
  29. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    i know it's impossible but i really want caroline

    i feel so badly for her :( i loved both her performances at the last 2 nationals

    the hell. if someone said this to me in person i'd have the urge to spit in their face. the statement about asian-americans is just stupid. err why do you think herp derp.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFe1MqAbXbo
    ^ and how is this anywhere near fat
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  30. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    I don't really see how Mirai is the only one who has a shot to medal out of the four mentioned. It's doubtful with Agnes and Christina since they've never been to Worlds. But Ashley has proven that she can take on some of the bigger competition; maybe not Yuna, but she's beaten Mao and the Russian girls. Carolina is exquisite, but she's had meltdowns before, including her last two Olympics. Ashley's had a respectable top five finish at Worlds two years in a row now. Mirai on the other hand hasn't even had a top five finish at her own nationals in the last two years. Yes, her Olympic performance was great, but she hasn't matched it since. Her SP win at Worlds was also awesome, and she did beat Yuna, but that was easily one of Yuna's worst skates in years. And if you're going by that logic, Rachael Flatt would also have a chance since she beat Yuna in the LP earlier that season. Overall, Mirai hasn't shown that she can beat the top three any more than Ashley can.

    I'd love to see a top-notch Mirai at the Olympics, and I wouldn't completely count her out on making the team, but I think many people would be very surprised if she got a medal even with a great skate and would not consider her the most likely of the US ladies to get one. Several of the US ladies have an outside shot at the podium, but I don't think anyone at this time is thought of as having a fantastic chance, even with a great skate.
  31. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    The US :). She won the Junior Ladies this year in Omaha, placing first in both the SP and FS:

    Polina Edmunds - Short Program - Nationals

    Polina Edmunds - Free Skate - Nationals

    With this being her first season competing domestically as a Senior, it's doubtful she'd be in the running for an Olympic berth for Sochi, but stranger things have happened :lol:. I think this gal has a great future, if not next year, then definitely in the run up to 2018. If we're talking about long shots, though, I'd much rather see her on the team than the likes of Hicks, Miller, or Wang. As much as I like Samantha Cesario, I don't think she stands a chance of getting that third spot. Siraj, with her tiny jumps, won't be in the running, no matter how wonderful her artistry may be.

    As for Gao and Zawadski, they're on the bubble. Agnes just can't seem to get it together and put two stellar programs together at a major competition, and as for Gao, there's a lot to like about her, but IMO at least, there's something lacking that prevents me from being able to instill confidence in ability to compete with the big guns.

    I have a feeling that, barring some kind of miracle, Mirai and Alissa are done in the eyes of the USFS :(.
  32. centerstage01

    centerstage01 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she could qualify for Sochi as she'll only be 15. But I could definitely see her making a run at 2018, and hope she does. Lovely programs and it's good that she's trying for 3/3 jumps in both the short and long. Good spins and footwork as well.

    Like I said earlier, Mirai is going to have to have a miracle season to even be considered for the third spot. The sad thing is that I really believe the judges want her to do well and would score her accordingly, but her underrotation issues would have to be completely resolved. And I mean completely.

    I like Christina Gao and of the remaining ladies would like to see her get the last spot, but I can understand why people might not be so enamored of her. Last season was a breakout for her, but can she do it again? Can she maintain consistancy? What kind of improvements will she make over the spring and summer? Unlike Agnes, she does seem to be able to put together clean short and long programs in the same competition, but can she do it for every competition? Next season is going to be very, very interesting.
  33. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Take a chill pill. Mirai while certainly not fat, is not nearly as toned as other elite skaters. That was obvious to me when I attended the 2012 Nationals and practices.
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  34. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely about Mirai needing to completely decimate her underrotation issues -- with her reputation of being a skater who underrotates her jumps, she will never be a skater who gets the benefit of the doubt on a landing that is even slightly questionable, so she needs to make damn sure she gets a full rotation on all her jumps in order to stand a chance.

    She's also developed a reputation of being inconsistent when it comes to training and being committed to the work it will take to be in full fighting form. This past season, it seemed like there were glimpses of that here and there, but there were also several times when she was competing that she looked like she wanted to be anywhere but there. There were a couple of times during her SP, which was upbeat and seemed like it was a great match for her personality, in which she was lacking the snap and sauciness the music and choreography required, which was a disappointment to watch :(.

    I'd like nothing more than to see her get it together and have things fall into place, but it's going to be an uphill battle -- not just against her competition (which is deep, to put it mildly), but also TPTB at USFS, and at this point, I'm not sure which one is more daunting.
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  35. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

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    As far as I am concerned, all 3 spots are completely wide open. It would be different if there was an American ladies' medal contender, but that is hardly the case.

    I am proud of Gracie and Ashley earning 3 spots for the USA but none of those spots is guaranteed to either one. Neither has been consistent enough or had such breakout performances the she would be a lock. The USFSA isn't that in love with either one. Watching Jeremy Abbott lose his all but guaranteed spot at World's was proof enough for me to believe that.

    As for Mirai, I think that if she does what she is capable of and gets her head out of her ass and commits to the season her chances are actually good. The USFSA will get behind her if and only if she gives them a reason to.

    Wang and Hicks should be planning for 2018. They aren't ready for Socio and won't be. I will be surprised if Alissa sticks around. Her spirit is strong but her body is broken. I put Christina's chances ahead of Agnes because she is artistically superior and more consistent. Agnes has great jumps but if they fail her she has nothing else.

    Poor Caroline was left behind long ago. Putting Rachael up there was just mean.

    I wish all of them the very best of luck.
  36. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    You have obviously never had a Russian skating coach ;)

    I dont think anyone said the word fat.
  37. b-man

    b-man Active Member

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    And at NHK, despite some URs, Mirai still beat competitor Agnes by two places and 16 points!
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  38. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I don't think USFS is holding down Mirai as much as some poeple assert. She was 3rd in the SP at US Nats after all. They DO want to send a lady with very clean jumps, and unfortunately that's not Mirai, the difference is quite obvious between her and Gracie/Ashley. I think she was on track all last season with the coaching change, had she been healthy at US Nats she would have been a contender, I hope she does not lose sight of that.

    I do think Agnes is grossly held up, she has been anywhere near a clean LP in ages, and with her gawkiness and poor packaging, she's nobody's Patrick Chan.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  39. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    maybe she could be more toned, maybe not. maybe her body is changing.
    it isn't simply about her being fat or thin, that whole statement about asian americans is silly

    for one, asian-americans are a diverse group which include east asians, southeast asians, south asians. some come from developing countries, which means the fact that they're bigger/taller in the US is often remarked upon as a positive quality. others come from developed countries like japan - wherein the poster making a comment about asian-americans being bigger is obviously making a thinly veiled reference to american obesity.

    secondly, although we know mirai has dual citizenship until she is 22, she was born and raised in america. why should she be compared to japanese in japan? the fact is she isn't. she's even said that her japanese language skills "aren't the best". it's one thing to make a comment like "she isn't as fit as she can be" vs that original statement which basically sounds like "she's lazy, she should go back to her native country (err..the US?) and learn how they work cos all the japanese girls are stick thin and more hard working".
    obviously mirai has dual citizenship right now, and i'm sure she embraces her japanese heritage/culture, but like most asian-americans growing up in the US, you can't help but be primarily american culturally simply based on your surroundings. look at how mirai talks and acts, like a typical american girl. would anyone tell rachael flatt to go to japan and "learn how they do things"? it's as if mirai is less american
    she should only be compared to other asian/japanese-americans
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  40. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    hmmm...right now it seems that Gracie could go out and swim on the ice at next year's Nationals and still would place top three.....USFS has been heavily pushing for her since they decided to send her to WTT last year....don't see them sending any newbie ladies to WTT this year, right?