The Third US Lady

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lilshorty, Mar 17, 2013.

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Who will be the third U.S. lady at the Olympics?

  1. Alissa Czisny

    21 vote(s)
    9.6%
  2. Rachael Flatt

    5 vote(s)
    2.3%
  3. Christina Gao

    104 vote(s)
    47.5%
  4. Courtney Hicks

    12 vote(s)
    5.5%
  5. Mirai Nagasu

    40 vote(s)
    18.3%
  6. Agnes Zawadzki

    29 vote(s)
    13.2%
  7. Caroline Zhang

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  8. Other (Please Specify)

    5 vote(s)
    2.3%
  1. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    The anxieties of our times. I am already nervous about the USA losing that third spot, and I want to plot who can get that spot back in 2015.
  2. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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  3. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

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    Don't think like that yet! I think our top girls may go to Worlds and do quite well if Yuna, Mao etc. opt out.
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    There is NO WAY Kwan is that low on the list. I think USFS would put her just above Czisny! Poor Nagasu and Gao.
  5. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Emily Hughes, Caroline Zhang, and Bebe Liang are probably coming back now.
  6. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    what about Katy Taylor and Yebin Mok?
  7. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Did Zhang retire?
  8. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    I can't see Mao not being there to collect her crown.
  9. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Katy Taylor has no flexibility and can't do anything that would earn any points.
  10. clara19

    clara19 New Member

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    If Mirai Nagasu skating to concentrate on if she is going to be representative of the third.
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I am fairly surprised Nagasu has as many votes as she does. I like her but I dont think the USFSA is on her side anymore. Zawadzki who has less votes is much more likely to make it. I even fear she might be more likely to make it than Gao. The last 2 Nationals she skated like garbage in the LP and still was placed 3rd. Next year 3rd place means the Olympics.
  12. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    I still have some faith in Mirai but along with skating lights out at Nationals she will have to be very impressive in the GP series and possibly make the GPF. I think will know if the USFSA is even open to sending her to the Olympics if she gets two assignments on the GP.
  13. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    The Olympic season is different and a shake up could happen. Ashley has not really been consistent the entire season. If Nick does retire I could see her just fading away. IMO Gold is the top American skater for next season.
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Wow I just noticed Czisny with the same amount of votes as Zawadzki. That surprises me even more than all the votes for Nagasu. I think some are voting with their hearts more than their head, but that is ok, lol! Wow and 4 votes for Rachael Flatt as well, oh my!
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think which is the top American next year is a toss up and could go either way. For the moment they are really 1A and 1B. Both will be fighting hard to win Nationals so they get to do the Team Event at the Olympics which is the best chance for either to medal, not the invididual ladies event. I wonder if it is strictly Nationals or there are other factors that decide who gets to compete in that.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Why? Based on U.S. ladies' discussions here, it's obvious that Nagasu has many fans and supporters on FSU, and these polls are mainly fan popularity contests, aren't they?
  17. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Emily skated at a benefit event this season and didn't try a single jump. She already had her Olympic opportunity.

    Flatt still suffers from tendonitis and back pain. She has said if she could skate without pain, she would, but if not, school is fine for her.

    Czisny hasn't said anything about returning as yet. She'll be 26 in May and is recovering from a second hip surgery. She may have to scale back some of her hyperextended spin positions to avoid placing strain on that hip. Those spins were her key to high PCS scores. Without them, she would be a slow, cautious skater with mediocre jump content.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  18. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    If Gold holds it together in the SP and not completely bomb in the FS at Nationals, then she can pretty much pack her bags for Sochi.

    Wagner however, is in an interesting position now. This is 2 competitions in a row where Gold beat her in the FS and even though Wagner placed higher both times, I believe they are equal now when it comes to clout. The thing with Wagner is- will she continue to play it safe just to make the team? Making the team is one thing but will she be satisfied with just that or does she really want to challenge for the Olympic podium? Everyone knows she needs a 3-3 and 2axel-3toe to have a shot at that.

    I think the final spot is gonna come down to Gao, Nagasu, and Zawadzki. I am rooting for Gao personally. Nagasu had her shot and I just can't see Zawadzki making it.

    Forget about Zhang, Czisny, and Flatt.
  19. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    Czisny would have no hope without her great spins, even if she landed all her jumps.
  20. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    If Gao skates like she did at Nationals the last 4 years they will have to reward her this time. The others are too unstable. If Zawadzki skates better than she did the last 2 years, not totally clean just better, they will give it to her though. So it depends on Agnes, and if she doesnt get her act together a bit more, it will be Gao for sure.
  21. Smiley0884

    Smiley0884 New Member

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    Christina Gao had a very respectable season, definitely not lackluster. I don't think she will ever be rewarded by the national judges for some reason, but I hope I'm wrong. It's way too early to make any predictions, but I could see the third spot going to Zawadksi, Hicks, or even Czisny if she manages to get healthy and skate reasonably clean.

    I love Mirai, but I think the USFS is done with her :(
  22. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    Czisny is not going to skate at her 2010-2011 level. She is old, eat up with injuries, and it is obvious that was a fluke year for her as she never came close to her consistency and form that year any other time. In her 2010-2011 level she would be a lock for the 3rd spot but she wont reach that. Even not at her 2010-2011 level she will be gifted 3rd behind locks Wagner and Gold though if she still has those amazing spins and does clean short with 4 triple long. Without those spins she is toast.
  23. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I'm leaning towards Gao and Wang...possibly Hicks.

    Gao has been working hard and had a fantastic season even though they completely screwed her at nationals. I really hope she can add more fire and KABLAM!! to her skating to really grab the judges' attention and make them take notice of her.

    Wang has struggled with consistency particularly in the SP but she's a jumping powerhouse. All 5 triples including a 3Lz-3T, excellent technique, lovely flow and presentation...she just needs consistency.

    Hicks is still clunky to me but she's getting better. Despite how huge her jumps are she needs to work on her UR issues as well as better presentation.

    I'd love to see Mirai have a breakout season of sorts but she will get no help from the USFSA (they made that clear this year) so it will have to come from her 100%.

    I don't think Alissa will be in the mix. I doubt if she'd be able to survive the intense practice grind necessary to compete at the level she needs to. She's where Michelle was in 2006; she wants to keep competing but her body is throwing in the towel.

    I doubt if Rachael will come back either.

    I love Caroline but she doesn't have a shot either.

    I can't wait to see how everyone does on the GP next season.
  24. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    US judges LOVE Agnes and her solid basic skating. She has had endless flawed skates at Nationals and has been rewarded for them year after year (2 US bronze medals in a row for performances littered with major mistakes). I think the difference between her and some of the other girls is that when she falls on jumps, she still manages to get her 3 rotations in and doesn't get wrong edge entry calls unlike Czisny, Nagasu, Flatt, and Zhang. Agnes also skates faster and achieves greater amplitude on her jumps than those 4 ladies. My personal choice for the 3rd spot though would be Christina Gao because I feel she has so often gotten the short end of the stick and doesn't receive the benefit of the doubt like so many of these other ladies do. I believe it's time that Gao finally gets a fair shake! I'm so tired of seeing Agnes be held up time and time again on US ice just because of her potential. If she skates decently though, I'd be shocked if the US judges didn't select Zawadzki.
    Smiley0884 and (deleted member) like this.
  25. centerstage01

    centerstage01 Well-Known Member

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    Mirai wouldn't just have to have the skate of her life at Nationals, she'll have to have the season of her life next year. I love her and want to see her get that third spot, but her constantly under-rotated jumps and negative demeanor the last few seasons are not going to put her top in the minds of judges and officials. She's not the chipper, happy-go-lucky Mirai of 2010 anymore. I think the judges WANT to score her well, she just doesn't seem to want to give them the opportunity. I say all this as one of Mirai's biggest fans, but it's time to face facts.

    If they were choosing right now, I'd go with Christina Gao. Zawadski's still too much of a headcase and Hicks, while her jumps are fantastic, really, REALLY needs to work on her style and choreography. Alissa's injuries the last two years will be too much of a hurdle to overcome. I hope against hope she proves me wrong, but I don't see her making the Oly team.
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  26. Skater91

    Skater91 New Member

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    I hope Rachael Flatt get her stuff together!

    My Wishes for US Olympic spots are

    1. Courtney Hicks
    2. Rachael Flatt
    3 Mirai Nagasu
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    You mean in order of which you would like to be the 3rd American most or that is what you would like to be your whole Olympic team? If the latter to each their own, if you dont mind the embarassment of no Americans finishing in the top 15 at the Olympics with a 3 women team, LOL!
  28. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I like so many US ladies it's hard for me to pick one to root for. Whoever it is, as long as the jump and spin calls are good and PCS is marked reasonably correctly at US nationals.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  29. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Like non-jump elements and quality of skating, for example?
  30. Skater91

    Skater91 New Member

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    I wish that was the team for the USA. If it went down to out of those 3 who I would give the 3rd spot to, it would be Flatt!

    I am not an American and I these are the only current US ladies I actually like to watch.

    I really don't care what they place. I have favourite skaters from other countries I am rooting for more.

    I would like Agnes Z and Angela Wang to get a chance to go.

    If people have seen my post before they know I hate Ashley Wagner.
  31. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Even then people argued about how slow she was compared to the other American skaters and her lack of difficult transitions in-between the elements (lots of two foot skating). Her spins were excellent, but it's not as if American skaters are exactly lacking in that department.

    Regarding music and interpretation, people criticized her for skating pretty and daring to have great posture and line and would rather have her try to skate looser with more freedom with different styles of music. Yet, despite all of that, her PCS were pretty high and her jumps never seemed to be dinged as much as say Nagasu when Czisny skated decently.
  32. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The USFSA lovefest with Flatt and Czisny over the years always baffled me. I did like both for the most part, I respected Flatt's consistency and toughness, and I admired certain things about Czisny's skating. Still to be so heavy in favoring, to the point of even going out of their way to either overmark or hold up both a journeywomen type who was just steady like Flatt, and a veteran headcase who was slow and a poor jumper like Czisny....well the USFSA had alot to do with the 5 year drought of U.S ladies not having 3 spots I think. In their defense I will say Flatt definitely deserved to compete at the 2010 Olympics, and Czisny definitely deserved to go to the 2011 Worlds as U.S Champion and U.S #1. Beyond that however...
  33. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well hindsight is 20/20. Czisny had the best GP results in the 2011-2012 season going into Nationals, and her base score was slightly higher than Agnes (who ended up placing 7th in the LP) and PCS was only higher by like two points. Christina Gao may have been underscored, but her she lost about four points for not doing the 3/2/2 in TES plus another 4-5 points for singling her Salchow which explains why her base value was only slightly better than Czisny's. Of course Agnes and Caroline Zhang would have done better than placing in the 20s at Worlds like Czisny ended up doing (especially considering that Zhang's overall score at Four Continents would have placed her fifth at Worlds in 2012 and Czisny's very low GPF LP score, after scoring high in the SP, turned out to be better than her Worlds score). However, it's not as if she didn't have a legitimate reason to be named to the Worlds team at the time.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  34. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    True, hindsight is 20/20 but I can honestly say I felt and said at the time that Wagner should have been 1st or 2nd at the 08 Nationals (of course didnt mean diddley squat to who went to Worlds that year), Zhang and Flatt should have both easily beaten Czisny at the 2009 Nationals, Nagasu should have won the 2010 Nationals, Nagasu should have been 2nd and on the World team instead of Flatt in 2011, and that Zhang should have been 2nd in 2012. I felt that way directly after their National skates and not with the benefit of hindsight. I actually would have feared how Zhang would do at Worlds in 2012 even after thinking she was lowballed at Nationals, but then she was well received by 4CCs judges it turned out.

    Still I see your point totally on 2012, but the judges had no reason to hold up Czisny in 2009 and to some degree Flatt in 2011. Neither had done anything that season to warrant being protected.
  35. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I would not call Czisny's 2010-2011 season a fluke. She was incredibly strong throughout the season. A fluke insinuates the skater has just one good performance at the right time. Czisny was consistent, just sadly her consistency did not last beyond one season. Every skater has a peak in their career, and 2010-2011 was hers.
  36. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    I am 100% this would NOT be the team, there is no way they would send 3 people who have not been at worlds in years; they will send at least 1 who went to worlds this year, probably two. Flatt has not been seriously training and she was not even that great when she was skating she would be lucky to crack top 10 in this much stronger field today. Hicks has not had time to develop PCS, and is just a good jumper, I don't see them taking her over Gao or Agnes.

    I love Mirai, and would love to see her go. If she is on, and she gets her edge issues sorted out, she is one of the only ones that has a chance to medal so if she skates well next year and they are thinking medals, Mirai, on a great day, could potentially medal. I don't see Agnes or Gao or Ashley being able to medal, even if they skate great.
    Mirai has the highest standing against the competitors who will be in the competition at the Olympics - 4th place in a competition with both Mao and Yuna, and she won the short program against Yuna. If she skated to 2010 levels and improves from that, she could be a real surprise. Ashely finished 4th at worlds too but it was against a Mao who just lost her mother as well as no Yuna. Ashley has not shown us she can beat the top 3 if they skate great.
  37. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Mirai's 4th in Vancouver was her last great performance. She's been getting UR calls from both US and ISU judges in just about every event since then, and she hasn't been the same performer, either. All the exuberance has gone out of her performances and her FSs in particular are robotic, joyless and devoid of musicality. She just doesn't seem to want to skate any more. Mirai would be on the bottom of my list of potential US Olympic competitors. She has the talent, but not the will to excel.
  38. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Which is sad for someone like Caroline Zhang who has the will, but has been doomed thanks to her faulty jump technique and skating skills.
  39. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I would love the 3rd spot go to one of the younger ladies like Hicks or Wang. Yes they have never been to Senior Worlds or even been on the Senior GP series but it would be great experience for them. I really don't want to see Alissa or Mirai make the team. Time to turn the page.
  40. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    World Team assignments are based on the seasons results. That explains some of the team choices IMO.

    '08 Nationals...Wagner probably should have been 2nd. Still confused as to how she wasn't 2nd. But, as you said, it did not matter in terms of World team selection as Nagasu and Flatt were too young, and went to Jr Worlds. Wagner had a respectable 4CC but really struggled in her FS at '08 Worlds.

    Czisny's win in '09 was another head scratcher, and it pretty much was a window into her performance at '09 Worlds in LA. Flatt stepped up to the plate and delivered, seemingly unfazed by the event. A good showing for a 16 yo.

    In 2010-2011...Flatt had had a very good SGP season, silver medals in both events, and winning the FS portion of those events. Not such a great SGPF due to injury, but by US Nationals, looked good whereas Nagasu struggled in her 1st SGP in China (5th in the FS...87.5 pts), pulled up in her 2nd SGP in France where she got the silver medal (won the FS) , but stuggled abit again in her FS at US Championships. Mirai's only really strong FS of the season...hit it out of the park... was at 4CC that year. So, some up and down in her performances, and that probably played into the team selection process.

    The monitoring issue comes up in every discussion on World Team selection. I still believe that USFS needs to rethink the process, and look at it like the US Ski team approach, where the athletes are seen competing and training by officials almost every week of the competitive season, which also has many more events that the athletes can compete it. Oh yeah, wait...there is still crowd support and $$ in that sport. :-/