The term "Ice Princess"

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by coppertop1, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    I hear people refer to ice princesses. What exactly is an ice princess? A typical female skater, with the glittery dresses and make up?

    What is it that turns people off of this type of skater? IF that's a skater's style, what's wrong with that? Or is it more the image thing, that it's a cliche esp it seems in the USA?
     
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  2. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Ice Princess: A female figure skater that scares male hockey players that share the same ice.
     
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  3. ToFarAwayTimes

    ToFarAwayTimes Active Member

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    Ladies skater who displays no unique personality on or off the ice. Manufactured to be the can't-miss pretty little princess. Fake. Boring.
     
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  4. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    So there's a difference between that and a skater who has a lyrical style but still has personality on the ice?
     
  5. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Not to some posters. :/
     
  6. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    I think in a lot of ways the title is only "truly" applied to Sasha Cohen. And yes there are exceptions here and there, which brings me to the point..

    :soapbox:

    When is she going to open up that damn finishing school? Isn't she all about money and financing now?? Hello - earth to Sasha, we need you now more than ever.:bribe::sasha1: Come collect your paycheck and straighten that back, watch that chin, you call that a pointed toe?!? Where was the turnout on that position Julia, why haven't you stretched today Christina Gao? Wake up Mirai Nagasu, you should be one of my instructors at this academy. This entire field of ladies needs a makeover and a Sasha wake up call (tm) is a logical solution to the problem.

    And I'm done.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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  7. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I heard the term ice princess way before Sasha Cohen came along... we used it in the 80s.

    At the time, I was a young girl, but it was just the image of a beautiful girl skating on the ice, glittery and sparkly. A skater who was non-lyrical, focusing only on the athletic side of the competition probably wouldn't get this label, because being an ice princess is about beauty in the sport. I think it was Princess instead of an ice queen, because most skaters are fairly young. To me, the label was about someone little girls looked up to, someone who ruled the ice.

    I sometimes thing it is now used in a derogatory way, but it doesn't have to be negative.
     
  8. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    It's a style that comes off very generic and phony unless you're a very finished off skater IMO. You see a lot of skaters try to go that route because its the "ideal" style but it really only works for very few skaters. A classic style requires a classic and refined quality of movement. I think at this point with COP it's a rather safe route to take with the packaging, but it can work with the right skater.
     
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  9. HVS

    HVS Member

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    I think "pretty princess" is applied to someone like Zijun Li or Gracie Gold who are very pretty (and young) girl themself, have good skating but don't really have "IT" factor. Someone who please your eyes but not blow your mind :saint:

    I'd like to add Yulia, but her monster spins indeed blown my mind so :rollin:
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  10. Meoima

    Meoima Active Member

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    I hardly remember any princess at all. :scream:I remember their names mostly.
     
  11. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

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    Think of what Yoshie Onda was trying to do in her last eligible season or two. Another good example was how Disney On Ice used Roz Sumners as Donald Duck's birthday present. Nothing to do with the skater's individual personality or passion; just conform, conform, conform, be dainty and classical and skate pwettily to pwetty music.
     
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  12. quartz

    quartz Far beyond these castle walls

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    "princess" all on its own is a negative connotation to me.
     
  13. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    That was one example that drove me off the wall. Why Chouinard thought giving Yoshie copies of her older program would be a good idea was beyond me. There were good qualities to Yoshie's skating -power and ice coverage being at the top of the list- but having her sit at center ice fluffing her arms only emphasized what she was not. Balletic and someone with great posture. There are skaters who do that style well due to a dance or ballet background or natural aptitude. What always bothered me was trying to turn powerful skaters into swan lake ballerinas when they obviously struggled with the style. Variety can be a good thing and I would much rather see a creative program that uses their power, instead of a second-rate ballet class impression.
     
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  14. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    That's a good description, both these girls don't have a defined style yet. Young, pretty but lacking that star quality (though could develop it).

    . That's why I enjoyed Irina Slutskaya, who IMO had her own brand of artistry in her pure exuberance, and didn't try to be a princess. She knew her strengths. I think it's crucial that skaters, esp women, choose the right vehicle.
     
  15. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    I feel like we had this thread a few months back.

    I think most consider it a derogatory term -- describing a female skater who is seen as having forced presentation (i.e. choreographed smiling), and/or displaying cold or arrogant behavior on/off the ice. It's basically the equivalent of calling someone a "diva."

    I grew up equating the term with polish, finished moves, good posture, nice hair and costuming, which are all good things in my book. You don't have to be a diva to have those things -- Alissa Czisny comes to mind.
     
  16. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    I have always thought that "Ice Princess" has a pejorative connotation. Someone who is wrapped up in how wonderful they think they are.

    IMO - Michelle Kwan, Alissa Czisny, Sasha Cohen - NOT ice princesses. They worked hard, were gracious and kind (always) and seemed to know that sport is sport. And totally gorgeous on the ice.

    I think there is also a (in 6.0 terms) a split between technical prowess and presentation. A skater like Kwan, Czisny, or Cohen would define beauty on ice. Skaters like Slutskaya, Ito, and, in her days of competition, Hamill, athletic (not princess-ey). They were not expected to be princess like. Same with Wagner - which is why the whole Romeo and Juliet thing did not work for her.

    Gold, in my opinion is a bit of a hybrid. I think she has part of the Princess (as in diva) mentality, she is certainly pretty, but at the end of the day, I think her strength is in her power.

    Rachael Flatt - not princess. Debi Thomas - not princess. Either in demeanor or skill set.

    Also "ice princess" can connote a certain aloofness and disdain for those around you. Lipinitskaya comes to mind (although I think she may just be young, shy and concentrating. Yu-Na Kim same thing.
    She is not a diva, but some complain that she is aloof.
     
  17. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    With Kim, I think she's more shy and reserved, that's the oriental culture. Lipnitskaya could be shy maybe she doesn't speak English very well (Same held true of Slutskaya in younger years)

    Good breakdown of the term. I never thought of Cohen as a diva, she was confident and forth coming especially when she came on, but polite and levelheaded. Michelle was always gracious.

    I agree that there are the athletic types and graceful types, and skaters who are both. I do think Gracie is mostly athletic now.

    I wonder who would be an example of an ice princess in terms of being a diva in the negative sense?

    Women's figure skating is the glamour event, with the expensive dresses, fancy hairdo, it's probably one of the most popular events
     
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  18. Meoima

    Meoima Active Member

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    Yulia is not good at English, and she is very concentrating. But I have watched some backstage clips, and she was very friendly with Anna Pogo, Yuzuru and Carolina. I guess it's just she is shy in front of the camera.
     
  19. zebraswan

    zebraswan Member

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    Nancy Kerrigan?

    My personal interpretation of an ice princess is someone who doesn't show any individuality - who "skates pretty" and goes through the motions without showing any soul or passion, who doesn't take a lot of risks. I think I would enjoy ladies' skating a lot more if there were fewer of them and more strong personalities...just imho!

    I'm curious if there is anyone that would be considered the male equivalent of an ice princess?
     
  20. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Didn't this term start with Peggy Flemming and Dorothy Hamil? I also feel that there's the indication that someone has grown up privileged and kind of sheltered from the rest of the world, knowing nothing much other than skating, which translates into a pretty but somewhat shallow type of presentation.
     
  21. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    On the flip side, there are a lot of skaters who aren't considered ice princesses but they are they are just as generic and forgettable.

    I see where the pretty princess term is coming from, but I think people overuse the term. It's sort of like how "Magical Pixie Girl" used to have a solid definition and was reserved for certain female character tropes written by men. Now, people use it to mean any female character they simply don't like or can even relate to on any level and the creator of the term wants to kill the term and apologized for even creating it.
     
  22. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    I get that impression too, watching her she's shy and focused, not really standoffish.
     
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  23. Meoima

    Meoima Active Member

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  24. alchemy void

    alchemy void Running away from POTO

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    This.

    Preach!
     
  25. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    Cute. Where was this? We see her light up and her personality come through after she's done, in the kiss and cry. On the ice, she's all focus.

    I'm fine with a powerful skater trying to improve their artistry, since it's not just about jumps, but definitely picking the right vehicle is so important
     
  26. Meoima

    Meoima Active Member

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    If I remember correctly, maybe at TEB 2012-2013. She is very friendly with Carolina, Yuzuru, Anna Pogo and other skaters. She update her Instagram with photos with her friends regularly. Obviously she is not a diva. But she seems to dislike the reporters since they often fabricate untrue stories about her. She said on her fanpage once that there was this reporter who wrote something untrue about her after she politely refused to give him an interview.
     
  27. coppertop1

    coppertop1 Active Member

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    Well, then I can't blame her. She is all smiles after the competition and I never got diva vibes, just that she was serious and focused on the ice. She is one of my favs.
     
  28. HVS

    HVS Member

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    I don't think aloof is something others can complain, that's just because Yuna is shy, calm, quiet and introverted.

    When indeed, she can be so sweet to others, but usually she prefers only smiling

    http://i.imgur.com/1h8kMxj.gif
    http://i.imgur.com/fZ9XwyO.gif
    http://i.imgur.com/srZ4mmQ.gif
     
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  29. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I sort of like Josee's work for her here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CtDPKgEUtrM#t=97

    I thought it complimented her skating but hid her weaknesses well. I think the best program Onda had was her 2004-2005 SP here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqgHzRQa1Mc

    I thought Audrey Weisiger did a good job promoting what was great about Onda's skating (power, strength) and yet finessed it. I think Onda should have had more programs like that before that season because I thought she was pretty boring in 2002 when she paid virtually no attention to aesthetics.

    I wondered why Josee chose La Strada for Onda's original 2005-2006 LP but then I started looking at Onda's face and I realized she sort of looks like Giulietta Masina. The program was interesting in parts and I liked that Onda's team tried to stretch her artistic limits, but the direction really was too much of a Josee program. Maybe they should have implemented more of the playfulness and the Chaplin-esque style of Masina's performance.

    I do have a question for people. Do you think a "power" skater who tries to work on their weaknesses like line and movement is becoming a pretty princess? Where's the line between simply improving one's skating and conforming to a pretty princess mold? Also, should we get rid of these broad categorizations and encourage all skaters (no matter what their strengths and training lay) to try all styles of movement and pay attention to their body frame and posture. Even more modern dance styles that go away from the ballet aesthetic still pay attention to those things so different types of shapes actually look deliberate rather than lazy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
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  30. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    I can only speak for myself. Of course working on line and extension should be something every skater tries to do. I just never understood why one needs to skate to twinkly music or ballet in order to get a better spiral, for example. It seems there is no happy medium of maintaining an athletic style while working on posture and extension. Skaters (especially ladiezzz) must get a new hair style, fluffy sleeves and a pastel/dipdyed dress in order to become arteeestic. In the program you mentioned, https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CtDPKgEUtrM#t=4m50s, Yoshie would have benefited from more hand-assisted spirals since they were a lot more extended. Josee gave her a Kwan-style COE spiral to start and her LB spiral is really bent on both knees when she does it unassisted. She does start out with nice arms and an arched back, so you could tell she worked on her extension, but by the time she gets to the third spiral, it's back to looking messy. Yukari Nakano does a very similar spiral sequence with more attack -and more impact IMO here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQn_JZ-BXlc#t=1m42s. Granted, she also has much better extension, but that's why I think Irina Slutskaya's approach to spiral sequences where she did hard turns in between was a good way to get credit for the things you do well while still working on overall extension. Yoshie's sequence would have looked much better had her LB spiral been a catch foot position. Instead, it's a very misguided attempt at dipping down and then rising with the music that just looks like she's off balance.
     
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