The Skating Podcast - Upcoming interview with Frank Carroll

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by DBZ, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I am fine with the 2013 world results. It's not like there atrocious like the 2010 Olympics. Basically I'm neutral on 2013. it have been nice If ten won? Sure but Chan did a lot of great things like his sp. Lysaceks win is awful and will always be awful. The big problem is that quads were so undervalued and jumps so undervalued that maybe while plushenko was doing a quad triple and lysacek did no quads - maybe adding a double would have allowed plushenko to win. That's the problem. The problem plushenko didn't do double but that the winner didn't even attempt a quad. Plushenko mistake was not doing a double but doing a quad at all. I think it's vey important to point out why quads are back and were done by 17 or 18 men in the free skate in London if not more. Because it can be done and should be tried and it's a part of men's skating like 3a is! And it's wrong to attack anyone who brings up what so many men are capable of as part of a program as only wanting figure jumping or a 10 second jump contest which is what Lysacek and Carroll were all about!
  2. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Yes quads are back. However, the results this season show that a skater still has to have more than a quad jump to win. How many times did we see skaters land beautiful quads, but later falter on other triple jumps or spins. After the Olympics, Lysacek & Carroll were right in stating that there is more to a figure skating program than ONE jump. There are many required elements in a FS & SP. Last time I check, there is no requirement that a skater attempt a quad.
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  3. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue is that Carroll and Lysaceck weren't really attacking anyone. They were spinning their strategy in the most positive way possible. Yes, Carroll may have been aggressive in pointing out Plushenko's weaknesses in transitions and parts of PCS, but he did repeat what Plushenko himself had said.

    You may really disagree with him, but he's not going around Plushenko boards and articles spewing anti-Plushenko propaganda.
  4. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but now no one can say or is saying "I am doing all the required elements so don't have to do the quad!" they are trying to out everything together including a quad. Not nonsense like they can be complete skaters and Do everything and deserve wins without quads. You almosT have to get to 20th place in the fs in London before you by a skater who didn't try a quad. It's because the scoring system with the anti lysacek Carroll reVisions makes it impossible!

    They were attacking people. Saying that plushenko wanted to abolish skating and replace it with figure jumping or a jump contest and therefore saw the whole thing as illegitimate. Plushenko never said he wanted to have figure jumping or a ten second competition with no music where you do one jump and then leave the ice. There has never been any indication at all that discussing past wins was a problem here!! And that all treads about people must Be lovefests!
  5. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    So where are all the ladies doing 3ax these days? You have to go all the way back to 1992 Olys to see Midori Ito and Tonya Harding attempting them. The only skater who does them now is Mao. Should all the other ladies be discredited because of this?
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  6. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Wrong. Lysacek did not attack anyone. Saying the truth that the figure skating competition was not only about one jump element is not an attack. In fact, Lysacek was given praise for the sportsmanship that he showed in addressing the post Olympic quad debate.

    Your anger is misplaced. It was the ISU that determined point values and required elements. All Lysacek did was: (1) structure his programs, under the point system that existed, in order to maximize his scoring potential; and (2) execute his programs in competition. The judges then scored his programs according to the ISU criteria for the SP & FS. Since the ISU changed the point system after Vancouver, you should be rejoicing instead of spewing your venom about Lysacek all over the Internet.
  7. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    No because unlike with quads you do not have three Olympics in a row and 10 worlds in a row and multi medalists in lots of events doing 3a in ladies! so it's not a part of winning as much.

    It was an attack to say plushenko wanted to abolish figure skating and replace t with figure jumping or a ten second jump contest. Anyone who said anything against the win was attacked as wanting to abolish the sport basically.

    1 and 2 caused the changes because seeing a streak of 3 Olympics in a row being won with quads ending was not good. The whole all triples in a 3/5 layout for goe bonus was not right. The system rewarded it wrongly. I am rejoicing but it makes no sense to forget why all these quads are being done. The system was changed because garbage regression won the Olympics.
  8. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I am looking forward to hearing what Frank has to say. The man is a wealth of knowledge.
  9. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Love that Dave is wearing a tie here (out of respect for Frank, maybe?), and looking like a Wall St stockbroker.
  10. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

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    So Casey, you're fine with the 2013 Worlds results, but the 2010 Olympics were horrible. So it's perfectly fine for Chan to win because he landed two quads, but you're going to conveniently forget he was a human Zamboni at other times in the program. Yet it's a travesty for Lysacek to win because he didn't do a quad. GMAFB :rolleyes:

    And there was nothing wrong with Plushenko's jumps in Vancouver? WTH, the landings of those jumps were so wonky it's not even funny.

    Jumps are not the be all and end all of skating. Guess what, men's skating existed long before the first quad was landed 25 years ago. And there are still MANY beautiful programs performed today without a quad.
  11. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Chan had a great short program and built up a lead. His SP was perfect! Record setting. Then in the FS he did make a lot of mistakes and rightly lost it but still did a lot of quads and other jumps and level 4 elements. But he rightly lost it. Yes it was a travesty to have Lysacek win gold because he didn't do a quad. The silver medalist did and everything else and Plushenko deserved to have a program that got the most points. It was the Olympics! 3 Olympics in a row had quads done by the winners. It was absurd regression. ANd you call plushenko jump landings wonky but they were all done and really well. ALmost textbook. All of them! There was no step outs, turnouts, two foots, hand downs, underrotations, there was just no real problem with any of the landings of any jumps? It's just what is wonky? Like some consider a leg wrap wonky but if the jump is done it gets all the credit and lots of times good GOE. But all the jumps were done. And he was better than he was in 2006 where he messed up his three jump combo and doubled a jump! He had all level 3 and 4 elements and did all his jumps and just did everything.

    The quad has been around 25 years and worlds was won 10 years in a row with quads and three Olympics in a row. That means I don't want to see a pre quad era performance win in 2010 or later with a skate that won the 1994 Olympics or something. Only by accident would that be acceptable. Like every medalists falls on their quad attempts and there's no quad done. Lots of good performances are done with all triples and that should remain in jrs or off the podium at a seniors event.
  12. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    :shuffle:
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  13. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I quoted a post that had 4 and I had 8 writing much more? So what? That's the topic!
  14. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Would you have been ok with Lambiel winning the gold medal had he skated as best to his abilities in Vancouver? If yes, you would've been ok with him without a Triple Axel but with a Quad? A triple axel has been the norm for male skaters for a longer time period than the quad.
  15. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Yeah because a quad is harder than a 3a- worth more points. But I don't think thy would have been likely and not the best. Best would've been 1- plushenko, 2-takahashi 3-lambiel. Plushenko did everything, takahashi tried everything, lambiel did 2 of the hardest jumps plus another in the sp.
  16. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    No. The topic of the thread is the interview with Frank Carroll. You were the one who decided to push it into being about Evan's horribleness and Frank's participation in that.
  17. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    This.^ (Out of reps for you).
  18. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
  19. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Lol its all connected. Whats the difference between Carroll and the 2010 Olympics and what he said there? Like it's not going to be a part Of the interview in some way!? I hope it's covered right and all the backlash and controversy that ensued that radically altered the system and what men do to win!
  20. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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  21. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    In your world, yes. Elsewhere....probably not so much (or not at all). At least I don't see anyone else jumping to the conclusion that an interview with Frank Carroll is an excuse to attack him because of what happened in 2010.

    And I'm not sure how you know what's going to be covered in the interview, since it hasn't been posted yet.
  22. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    So did I read somewhere that the interview with Frank Carroll will be posted on April 16?
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  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    From earlier in the thread:
  24. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait !
  25. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to rehash the 2010 quad stuff (and would prefer for caseyedwards to drop it, too), but this is simply not true. Lysacek and especially Carroll made all sorts of critical comments about other skaters and about the judging in the year leading up to Vancouver, aggressively so in some cases. This included Carroll discussing Joubert's World Champion bonus; arguing after CoC that the edge calls were the result of French/Russian tech callers trying to look out for their skaters at Lysacek's expense while Evan remarked about the judges' poor eyesight; all sorts of whining about the scoring at 2010 US Nats, how Lysacek was lowballed on PCS compared to the past (not true) and comments that seemed to cheapen Abbott's win; and of course, the business with Plushenko (I'd still love to see a precise transcript of what was said at that Bratislava press conference).

    It is easy to be sportsmanlike when you win; it is harder to be sportsmanlike when you don't. And anyway, Jeffrey Buttle did a far better job addressing comments about the relative importance of the quad when he won 2008 Worlds, and he had to do it off the cuff with no time to prepare his response or get friendly journalists to help sell his argument.

    I seem to recall Dave having a post back in 2010 about the impressive politikking job Carroll did for Lysacek, though I think it was deleted along with the rest of his original AJ blog some time later. I'd love for Dave and Jenny to discuss something along those lines with him, as well as his fondness for conspiracy theories and other complaints, but it doesn't strike me as that sort of interview.

    I was kind of struck by that myself. ;)

    More on topic, I wish Dave and Jenny would provide transcripts or at least highlights from their interviews. I don't like watching video interviews, but would be very interested to read some of what they're doing.
  26. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen someone so obsessed with something relating to skating in my years on this Board.

    ----------------------------

    Anyway, back to FC. So many topics to cover. As stated above. I hope he is candid! -

    1.Fratianne - closeness of the relationship; his take on her heartbreaking loss in 1980
    2.Chin- major talent impeded by her mother Marjorie; 3x in practice; Tiffany leaving around 1982 or 1983 and coming back by 1986; what he thinks happened to her jumps along the way where she could only do a 3toe by 1985.
    3.Bowman - drugs sex rock n roll; his deep talent and reportedly terrible work ethic; 'winging it' at important competitions
    4.Kwan- becoming a Senior behind his back in 1992(?); what process effected her transformation from jumping bean in 1995 to elite ice queen; why he thinks she would hold back enough at an Olympics ('98) or choke ('02) enough to let the competition slide by, when that didn't happen at Worlds; of course, parting of ways in an olympic year which was a jarring decision.
    5.Kirk, Nikodinov - ladies that worked with him briefly. General opinions on them.
    6.Nagasu - a lot here, too! Opinion on why a deeply talented skater can never seem to consistently deliver.
  27. KCC

    KCC Active Member

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    While I would love to hear his take on the skaters, I am also interested in him. His coaching style, practices, what he considers as his coaching strengths, what he emphasizes, what he sees that others do not, how he motivates others, how he deals with disappointment, etc. I would also like to hear what he thinks needs to change in the judging system, how he works with choreographers, and what he would like his legacy to be. Having never really seen him skate much, I would like to see him do a few elements on the ice.
  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they are going to interview Carroll and talk about bowman and goebel but not lysacek? That makes sense. He is listed second in the Facebook announcement preview!

    Buttle and lysacek just repeated the same stuff as to when it was stojko vs eldredge and it was all it's more than one jump.

    What's to be struck by? It was the Olympics! The precious three were won by men who did quads. Plushenko was totally on giving his best performance of the season and one actually better than his 2006 skate because there was no doubling of a jump. Chan fell twice and he was penalized by what about the great record breaking short program?
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  29. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    :wall: I give up. Someone needs to change the name of this thread.
  30. DBZ

    DBZ Well-Known Member

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    No, a certain someone just needs to stop hijacking the thread with tangential diatribes that have no real relevance to the topic at hand.

    It would also help if others stopped feeding it.
  31. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    This is relevant. He was the coach. They're his Statments. His student. But no more until the interview is out. Then it can be seen if they even treat the win as controversial. It was controversial and radical system changes were done but theyre both big fans so it may not be even discussed the way it should be! She's a former student of his.
  32. rudi

    rudi New Member

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    Awesome; can't wait for this interview!
  33. skatemomaz

    skatemomaz 4 More Years

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    The ignore button is your friend. ;)
  34. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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  35. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Jenny said that the interview may be posted as early as tomorrow.
  36. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Ouch on Irina!
  37. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Oh boy... :rolleyes:

    Looking forward to the whole video though. Among people they interviewed so far, Frank is probably the most high profile one who is still relevant in elite skating?
  38. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I spoke to Dave and it will be posted in 2 parts (2 hours total) and part 1 will be posted tomorrow.
  39. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    If he's still bashing slutskaya so harshly I can imagine what he might do against someone who competed agaisnt a current student who didn't fire him!! Lol!
  40. DBZ

    DBZ Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess that answers the "will he be candid?" question. :D

    Thank god too. I want to hear this man's personal opinions, not a bunch of PC answers and platitudes. Hopefully the rest of the interview plays out as such.