The Short Dance - or as I like to say: the Original Compulsory ;)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by skatingpj, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. skatingpj

    skatingpj New Member

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    Ice Dance has been reduced from 3 - 2 segments - how will the Short Dance impact the competition?



    With the success of last year's iAsk questions for CBC - I have been asked to post questions again in advance of the broadcasts and am looking for responses. If you are ok with being quoted on the air - please put an OK at the end of your response. If you would rather not and just post about the topic - that's totally fine. Either way - thanks to the FSUers for being as passionate about the sport as I am! Pj
     
  2. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    :drama: It gives us a third less costumes to snark about! :p

    Seriously, I am not in love with the format so far, but hopefully that will change as coaches and choreographers adapt to the new rule. (Right now, I think some programs are a bit jarring how they connect/disconnect from the CD aspect of the dance). I think it actually puts teams who are not as good in compulsaries (but usually had decent ODs) at a disadvantage. They have one whole less part of the competition in an attempt to pull up. I guess the good aspect for such teams, however, is that they only have to do the pattern once, instead of twice.

    OK :)
     
  3. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    I'm excited about the Short dance. I can only imagine that it will help ice dance be more competitive. Not that I didn't enjoy the compulsories, I did. And I still believe that the CDs should not go away...young dancers should learn them and be tested on them. It can only help their basics. But with the new short dance component, the dance will be more interesting with more choices of music and more original choreography. But with the CD component in there, the dancers will still be judged apples to apples on the steps they do within the dance. The CD judging in the past always seemed to "rank" the skaters and the complaint was that we knew the results before the FD was even skated. CoP judging helped a lot to change that for ice dance and I'm hoping the Short dance will help as well. Give the ice dancers more opportunity to improve their results based on how they actually perform in any given competition.

    I've watched ice dance for a long time and I like the changes that have been made so far. Ice dance is far more interesting to me now even though I've always enjoyed it very much. The ice dance competition at the 2010 Olympics was thrilling, I enjoyed it the most of all the skating.

    OK
     
  4. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I don't like it. Maybe because this is the first year, and it's too young to be done well.

    I think we are loosing the basis of ice dancing with Compulsories and the creativity of the Original Dance.

    ETA : OK
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
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  5. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    I have yet to see any of the Short Dances, so I'll reserve judgment, but in the last several seasons, most of my favorite ice dance routines have been Original Dances. I am very sad to lose them.

    OK
     
  6. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    I loved the Compulsory Dance because you got a chance to directly compare teams on the same dance.

    I don't think the short dance, from what I've seen so far, really works. I wish they'd go back to the old format.

    Ok.
     
  7. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    Ice skating has to pay the bills. I think the fact that audience wasn't there for Compulsary killed it. Pay those arena fees and no attendees to offset the bills.... not a good combo. So I don't expect the CD to return.
     
  8. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I thought I was going to be happy with the Short Dance. It's not really that I'm unhappy, but ODs were so much fun! Especially last year. And mixing them with CDs takes away some of the fun of a uniquely themed dance.

    Ok! :)
     
  9. azskatefan

    azskatefan New Member

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    I need more time to decide. Anything at the beginning of the season never has of good of a quality as it does at the end. We might not be seeing the best short dances now but we also aren't seeing the best free dances either.
     
  10. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Me too.

    I think it is ridiculous to give teams a pattern, and make them fit it to the music. From what we've seen thus far, it simply does not work.

    OK.
     
  11. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm not sorry to see the compulsories go - too often recently they were used to bolster the scores of the judges "favorites". However, I think the idea of the short dance still needs some work. Mixing the rhythms -from what I've seen so far - doesnt really work. I think sticking to one rhythm makes for a better dance.

    But in a way I think it's too early to ask this question. We've only seen rough versions of the SD on video - you can only really tell when you see them in competition.

    ETA - OK
     
  12. cygnus

    cygnus Liberal Furry

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    I enjoyed the SD more at Minto SS, where the juniors and lower ranked seniors seemed to be picking some rather original music choices for it than at Nebelhorn, where they were mostly traditionally waltzy in style.

    I still haven't forgiven the ISU for not doing the theme OD this year that was originally proposed- the 50s 60s and 70s. I was really looking forward to it- even though I know that Elvis and Saturday Night Fever would have been massively overused (with a few Beatles dances thrown in). But there would have been a few gems in there, and some good music choices to keep things interesting.
     
  13. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Admittedly I speak as a big fan of the compulsory dance, but CDs would be just as interesting on television as any other segment of the dance competition if the broadcasters would take the time to explain the purpose of the CD, show the diagram, and explain what makes a dance good or not so good. Informed commentary is just as useful for the CD as it is for any other part of competition. Writing the CDs off as "boring" is just lazy broadcasting.

    OK! Say that on TV if you can get away with it :)
     
  14. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    I really didn't want to like them, I really didn't. I was so freaked about not being able to judge apples to apples which the compulsories did. I also thought skaters could just hide their weaknesses and show their strengths if the CD vanished. After seeing some of the short dances this year, I'm so excited as to how this event will develop over the next few years. I'm a convert. Three cheers for the short dance; hip hip hooray, hip hip horray, big dick no way.
     
  15. nashvilledancer

    nashvilledancer New Member

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    From what I've seen so far, it looks like the top choreographers will put together interesting, integrated programs, and it will be fun to see compulsory patterns to different music. For instance, I loved Cappellini & Lanotte's SD. But we probably also will see some dreadful mashups, harkening back to the days of really bad music edits and grab-bag ice dance programs. OK
     
  16. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    I find it refreshing to see the Golden Waltz steps set to new music. The reused music tracks were definitely an annoyance for me. I just wish we hadn't lost the OD in the process. :(

    I also like how the Golden Waltz is given levels in the SD - I think having the tech panel in charge of that will make for more accurate judging of how well these teams are doing the GW.

    OK
     
  17. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I agree about this. But this was because no teams were doing them properly. There was no team really better than the others in compulsories, except maybe Delobel & Schoenfelder.
     
  18. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have with it is the levels in the Golden Waltz portion of the dance. It is up to the Technical Panel to decide if the edges are done correctly. And I am not sure that is the best way to do it.

    Also I am not keen on having a waltz combined with three other rythmns. For myself it would make more sense to just have it as a waltz overall. Otherwise it becomes quite random and you lose that idea of the theme that you had with Original Dance.

    OK
     
  19. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Of course, Waltz and Quickstep have nothing to do together. What a waste !
    But it's up to the skaters to skate to a Waltz or to combine several rhythms. ;)
     
  20. ana

    ana New Member

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    I don't like SD. I prefer old version: CD and OD!
     
  21. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    I am trying not to rush judgement but I have reservations about the new SD. Will we ever see a truly "original" program like D/W's Bollywood OD last year under this new system? And I admit to being bummed about not getting to see the 50s-60s-70s theme for OD that had been planned for this year. It would have been a wonderful change of pace but now we get to sit through the Golden Waltz AGAIN. Couldn't they have chosen a different one?
     
  22. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    In the early events, the short dance mostly look like two unrelated dances stuck together , especially the teams that chose waltz-tango. Skaters (or rather, their choreographers) seemed to have trouble integrating the Golden Waltz pattern and other elements into one dance that worked as a whole. Some of that may be the choice of Golden Waltz for the pattern. Does the Golden Waltz say straight line, no touch footwork to you?

    I think we will have a better idea after the senior Grand Pix events start and we have seen what the best ice dancers can do with it.

    I loved watching the top couples do CDs and will miss those.

    OK
     
  23. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    I think I'm one of the few people happy to see the Compulsory Dances be removed from competition. I was prepared to hate the Short Dance, though, because on paper it sounded like a big mishmash. But I've really enjoyed all the ones I've seen so far and am looking forward to seeing more.

    OK
     
  24. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    The other problem I have with it is having the comparisons of which couple can best interpret the theme. I suppose you could say the same about last year's OD which had a lot of variety in the interpretation of the theme. I would have preferred if they had just stuck with a waltz theme and then you at least get a chance to see which couple could interpret the waltz better, even with the GW portion of it.

    I hope that makes sense.

    OK
     
  25. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    The teams, the choreographers, they all seem to be struggling with it and it doesn't work so well so far. The waltz-tango mix so many teams have chosen is one of the most horrible things I've seen in dance for a while. I had nothing against CDs, I know they were essential in ice dancing, but it's the death of ODs that I'm grieving the most. Look how many ODs were real pearls - take D/W's Bollywood last season. I don't expect the SD to rise so high. The CD pattern doesn't seem to fit, no matter how hard you try to make it do. I know it's all about money, but I would rather keep the OD as it was and get rid of the CD than lose both to some strange mix that doesn't do justice to any of them.

    That's my judgement so far, of course it's just beginnings of the SD, so perhaps we'll all change our minds when everybody, including skaters, gets used to it. But for now I say no to short dances.

    OK
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2010
  26. L'amour

    L'amour New Member

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    I still don't et the SD. I just saw some videos of NHK and I still think it wasn't a very smart idea join the CD with the OD.

    The tango/waltz mix that some team are using is just :wall:!!! I aslo notice something when I was watching the dances...all of the programs look so empty and the skaters seem so lost the whole time.
     
  27. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Well-Known Member

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    The CD's have always been one of my favourite parts of the competition and I'm really going to miss them, even the Yankee Polka. The SD's we saw at Thornhill were neither fish nor fowl: they weren't CD's or OD's and the mix wasn't great, especially the dances which combined tango and waltz and tried to sell it us as a "Spanish Waltz". If we're going to get stuck with this hodgepodge, the ISU needs enact a rule that says that the rhythm of the SD must be consistent throughout. In using portions of the Golden Waltz, they should be required to use a waltz beat throughout.

    IMO, if they were going to scrap the CD, I would have liked to see a return to the Original Set Pattern Dance. The SD is not much different than the FD and I would prefer to see something a little more "ballroom" to compare pure dance skills. The OSP would do that in a way that honours the dance traditions of the sport, while the FD would give the skaters more artistic freedom.

    I'm OK with being quoted.
     
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  28. mishieru07

    mishieru07 New Member

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    Not a fan thus far. It really jarring, especially when you get a mishmash of dance styles. But on the other hand, if the entire SD was based on the CD pattern (eg pure waltz for GW/ VW), we get less variety. I honestly don't believe it's possible or sensible to integrate a GW pattern into say a Bollywood or Cancan themed programme. As it is, the odd tango/quickstep-waltz hybrids are :wall:

    I'd much rather the ISU revive the old CD OD format, or ditch either one and retain the other. For most of the teams, the SD lacks coherency.

    OK
     
  29. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    Now that I've seen some Short Dances, all I can say is ugh. No creativity, I didn't really look at the pattern in the first half, and the music cuts are atrocious.

    If they were looking for a way to cut one of the dance segments, I'd have just cut the CD. Or, quite frankly, I'd rather keep the CD and axe the FD :shuffle:

    OK
     
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  30. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I'm probably the only one on the planet that wanted to see ice dance in two segments: CD and FD. I never really saw the point of the original dance.

    OK