The Shibutanis thread

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanoverrated, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. kwanoverrated

    kwanoverrated Active Member

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    This is a thread for any discussion about the Shibutanis, both fans and non fans. What is things looking like for them now. They are still young, 20 and 22, and could potentially do another 2 Olympic cycles and even be around for 2024. However they talked about considering retirement after the Games. They have already done alot, a world medal, many U.S medals, and an Olympics, but they have yet to follow up on the potential showed of their world bronze. The field is now opened up, especialy with the unexpected I&K split, but they still have to face teams like Weaver & Poje, Cappelini & Lanotte, Bobrova & Soloviev, and Chock & Bates who have passed them in the U.S and are coming closer to that world podium. So what is their future hold and situation moving forward. Will they even compete until 2018. Will they win another world medal ever. Will they someday become a dominant team and win lots of world titles and an Olympics.
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Current discussion can be found in the U.S. ice dance news thread in GSD: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...re-prospects&p=4224736&viewfull=1#post4224736
    Excerpt from the Icenetwork's Worlds FD recap article linked from there:
     
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Glad to hear they plan to continue to compete. I like them a lot.
     
  4. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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  5. CynicElle

    CynicElle Well-Known Member

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    I like them too.

    And Alex wins at Twitter.
     
  6. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thrilled they are continuing, but a bit disappointed they are staying with Zoueva. They have to see that they are not getting better: US teams are passing them, international teams are passing them. What change are they planning to make to remedy that?

    Or maybe they enjoy skating and just want to keep doing it while they finish school, in Michigan, and placements don't matter? Who knows... but if results matter, they are sticking somewhere that just is not working.
     
  7. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Perhaps if V&M and D&W retire as expected, Zoueva will have more time to dedicate to The Shibutanis next season.
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think they are very happy with what they have already achieved- a worlds medal, many trips to worlds, Olympians, a grand prix win and other grand prix medals. At this point they are mostly doing it for fun and to skate the best they can, and if they win medals it is a bonus. I dont think they would move away from Michigan unless they are still skating past 2018. They dont want to uproot their family situation, their school situation, etc...
     
  9. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Judgejudy- that's pretty much what I suggested in my second paragraph- that they just want to keep skating and finish school up.

    Have any other dancers won a world medal in their first appearance?
     
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    May be Grishchuk & Platov (92 worlds)?
     
  11. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    Grishuk & Platov's first World's were in 1990. They skated to Zorba the Greek for their FD and the OSP dance was a Samba.
     
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Krylova/Fedorov at 1993 Worlds (I heard they stole ordinals from Grishuk/Platov). They split after a disappointing 1993-1994 season, and I think Linichuk thought Ovsyannikov would be a better partner for Krylova. I do think Krylova/Ovsyannikov had a better look on the ice.
     
  13. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    You are right. I remember Krylova-Fedorov. I thought they were pretty good, but I absolutely loved Keylova-Ovssianikov, with their long lines and passion.
     
  15. kwanlysacek

    kwanlysacek Member

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    I think it is all about the right programs and right look for them. Technically they are on par with the best teams in the world today now that Davis & White and Virtue & Moir retired. So the TES to potentially win world medals should be there, as long as they hit their levels and execute to their potential. However their PCS will always hold them back from winning medals unless they find the right programs and packaging for themselves.
     
  16. poirierpaul

    poirierpaul Member

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    I love them but I dont see a huge future for them. Not a bad one, just not a great one, in skating that is. I see alot more top 10 finishes, maybe the odd top 5, and a real fight to even make the 2018 Olympic team. I see Chock & Bates and Hubbel & Donohue the top 2 U.S teams by then (in either order) and who knows who else emerges by then. I dont see them ever winning another world medal even if they compete another 8 years.
     
  17. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Zoueva should have more time to dedicate to The Shibutanis next season with V&M and D&W most likely no longer in her stable.

    Are brother/sister teams less common today than they were a few decades ago? I'm wondering if the perception of them has changed over time. I'm trying to think back in time to whether they were more common in the earlier days of dance (and pairs). I seem to remember they used to be much more common in pairs, and it seems like there are fewer of them in today's environment.
     
  18. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    I cant believe some are writing the Shibs off. They are 19 and 21. That is incredibly young. They could easily be around for 3 more Olympics, another 12 years maybe even. They still could become one of the best ever, anything is still possible. At the least there could be many more world medals and an Olympic medal in their future.
     
  19. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    they were most popular in western cultures where skating was a family activity and the projection of love for entertainment value wasn't a big deal. Then when eastern countries saw these more neglected divisions as a chance to break into the medal count, they started pairing strangers under the state system and played up the lovey doves angle as an edge. A lot of eastern pairs wed. Most western teams don't, even those not related to each other aren't romantically involved for the most part.
     
  20. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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  21. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it's certainly not too late for them. They have terrific skating skills, all they need are good programs.
     
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  22. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    I hope Scali takes them over. I think he could do wonders with them.
     
  23. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

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    Shibutanis are done. They are never winning another world medal. As for being only 19, who cares. Lots of skater are done at 19. Rosalynn Sumners never won another world medal after 19 since after she lost the Olympic gold to Witt it was clear she was losing ground technically to the younger girls like Witt and Chin, and those to come. Sasha Cohen won her last ever world medal at 20 since technically she too was blown past by Asada, Kim, Ando, and the younger girls. The Shibutanis are going through the same thing as Sumners and Cohen, they have been passed technically and worse than Sumners and Cohen who atleast specialized in artistry, artistically they were never much, so what do they have.
     
  24. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I don't know…a great support system, great PR from the Olympics thanks to their social media/video skills, drive and determination to continue, great skating skills, strong dance basics, potential, a healthy outlook on life...
     
  25. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

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    Good for them. I am sure they have a great life ahead and they had a fine skating career. However no more world medals. Skateboy says they are certain to win more medals since they are 19, but I guess he never heard of Sumners and Cohen who at 19 and 20 were done winning medals at worlds and Olympics.
     
  26. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree if ice dance included jumps and the Shibs had trouble completing the number of jumps needed to be competitive. However, the Shibs have shown all season that they were capable of attaining the highest levels on their elements and have received higher TES than the dance teams that placed higher than them overall. I don't think they've peaked yet, and that's the difference. However, maybe they have reached the highest level that they are capable of, but I think that remains to be seen.
     
  27. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

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    I dont recall them beating the teams who beat them in TES at the Olympics and worlds, but I will check those again. Ice dance results are mostly determined by PCS anyway though, and here they fall short constantly.
     
  28. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Well, I said they beat teams that have beat them overall on TES. To me, that shows they still have the technical goods to be competitive rather than being passed up technically as what happened with Sumners and Cohen. Btw, wasn't Cohen a gold medal contender in Torino when she was 21? Shizuka won Worlds (after blossoming late) at 22 and won the Olympics at 24.

    Anyway, it's not the perfect analogy as ice dance teams have shown to be successful with skaters who are in the mid-to-late 20s. It depends on whether you think they have potential to grow or not. A lot of people don't, but I want to wait and see what they can do in the new few seasons before I make that call.
     
  29. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

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    Of course many are contenders past 22 (we should actually use his age, as the older in the team is what matters most). However many arent. That is my only point. Skateboy seems to think just since the Shibutanis are 19 and 22 they are certain to be contenders and have many more chances. However Sumners, Cohen, and many others were done winning medals at that age, since their skills were surpassed by others. The same might have already happened to the Shibs. I didnt say it happens automatically to everyone, of course some are contenders to a much older age, but it also happens often many are done as contenders by that age or younger too.

    Anywhere here are the scores from the 2014 Olympics and 2014 worlds:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_–_Ice_dancing

    As you can see the Shibs are 6th in TES in the OD, 10th in TES in the FD, and 9th in TED overall. Pretty much in line with their final finishes. 2 of the teams they beat in TES in the OD had a serious mistake. They themselves had a serious mistake in the FD but as you can see by the gap in scores would still only be 9th in TES in that phase if they had not.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/SEG007.HTM
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/SEG008.HTM

    At worlds they are 6th in TES in both phases, 6th in both phases, and 6th overall. Did beat 2 teams ahead of them in TES in the SD but one who gave up 7 points not even doing the twizzle sequence and are now split/dunzo anyway, and were beat by 2 lower down teams in TES instead. In the FD all 5 teams who beat them also beat them on TES.

    Anyway final results in ice dance are mostly determined by PCS, but as it turns out their TES doesnt gain them much or any ground anymore.
     
  30. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Right, but they are still competitive if they hit the levels (and it seems every team has some issues being consistent). I would say that's a far cry from being passed over by technically superior teams. I think if we have 2-3 more seasons of them stagnating, then you'd be right. I'm just taking a position that we have to wait and see if the Shibs can make some improvements before I'm ready to stick a fork in them. Anyway, even using his age, they together (averaging the ages) are still a very young team compared to their competition.