The Shibs

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by arakwafan2006, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    I dont know if this topic has been brought up before. The two of them seem happy to skate together however I wonder if they will split after 2014 and work with different partners. ANyone have any thoughts?
  2. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    665
    They are super talented & each look good but I really wish they would do something a little bit more out there. I find everything they do sweet but nothing more. It's so difficult when it's a sister-brother duo to push the feelings like a Virtue/Moir.
  3. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,348
    I think they will continue skating together. I get the impression the enjoyment they get out of skating together outweighs medals, and anyway no matter what happens they will forever be World medalists, something many fine teams will never get to say. They are also young enough there could be chances of another World medal someday once alot of teams retire, although I dont think they will ever be a dominant World beating team, but I dont think either would ever be part of that with any partner anyway.
  4. quartz

    quartz Point of Know Return

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,842
    I like them, they are cute, and I think it's okay for them to be sweet. Not every dance pair needs to do the lustful/hot/dirty passion thing. There are a lot of other dance styles that I hope they explore as they mature.
  5. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,784
    I love the Shibs. They're sweet and adorable and I like that they're not creepy-incestuous on ice! TBTH I think their mistake was staying with Marina this season. But I doubt they'll split--I get the vibe that skating is very much a family thing for their entire family, and they're going to remain partners unless one wants to retire and the other doesn't.

    BTW, slightly OT, but Alex has an amazing personality! A few seasons back, he blogged for IN, and his writing style was tons of fun. I'd love to see him doing that again!
  6. missysays

    missysays New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    645
    I don't think they should split. They haven't tapped into their full potential yet. And I don't consider it OT about Alex's personality. I think they both have great personalities but there's something especially fun and attention-getting about Alex's personality that they haven't fully captured in a program yet. But when they do find the right vehicle for them it could be amazing!

    I think Marina needs to put her thinking cap on to really figure out how to find a program that brings out the zany and fresh side that we see in their Shibsib youtube videos.

    There's also some super hot-ness waiting to emerge in Alex especially.

    Maia is also getting just really beautiful as she matures.

    I don't think they'll find a better technical or artistic match in any other un-partnered skater out there in US ice dance.
  7. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Messages:
    7,915
    They shouldn't split. They just need the right programs.
  8. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,073
    I wish they would leave Marina Zueva and go back to Patti Gottiwen (or go to Judy Blumberg). They were much more interesting before they went to Canton, even though Canton gave them better levels.
  9. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,004
    They should split and swap partners with Reeds. Once couple can represent the U.S. and the other can skate for Japan. :D
  10. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,244
    I think the Shibs have terrific skating skills together and would be hard-pressed to find that with other partners. They may very well be the team to look out for going into 2018 Olympics.
  11. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    320
    I think the Shibs have sort of a "second tier" status with Marina, and unfortunately, with so much on Marina's plate, the creative juices just haven't been reallly tapped to allow their skating skills to really be showcased to the best of their abilities . I agree with others, just because they are siblings, doesn't mean they have to conform to "cute" but they also don't have to be pushed into something that would be awkward for them as siblings. Perhaps reaching out to a different choreographer for the concept/ music selection/editing and then working with Marina on the day to day may take their skating to a new level. Perhaps they go back and look at classic old movies or ballets or musicals, for brother / sister stories.....or go for something more abstract, or something less driven by the male/female relationship but character driven in a way that can tell a compelling story.
  12. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    Interesting views! I am glad that I asked.

    I personally think that their following the crowd and staying with Marina was not the best choice for THEM! It would have been a better decision to go work with Igor and his team. I watched Marina Klimova work with Ekaterina and Ilya on expression and interpretation of the music amongst other things and I watched the work that Barbara Fusar Poli did and it would have helped the Shibs. Not that working with Marizio and Oleg is not good but i think that addressing their issues head on would have been smart.

    I was excited to hear that they were exploring a concept in the free dance with the Geisha theme however the program lacks so much by way of transitions, choreography etc. that I dont see a vast improvement. The potential is immense for these two. Alex is a powerful partner and is aware of the music in ways that cant be taught. Maia is a beautiful girl and is reliable in her partnering. I dont think that the program as is exploits their talents like it could. I am also not sure that changing partners would or wouldnt help. I was just wondering.
  13. Judy

    Judy New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2002
    Messages:
    678
    I thin they are a young team that are developing. We have been spoiled in the last several years at the fast development of v/m and d/w.
  14. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    That could be as well. I suppose when I think about it, I TOTALLY expected them over the past 2 seasons to be way more advanced. It could be that everyone in the whole to 10 at worlds elevated their level significantly. There is still a lot of work to be done with this team. Hopefully they can advance. It could be that the goal is post 2014 and not now which would mean that my expectations are out of alignment.
  15. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    16,115
    When hideous program's like I/K's free dance this season are scoring higher PCS, that should be a wake up call to the Shibs to change choreographers.

    I'd love to see them work with Chris Dean, Tom Dickson, or Peter Tchernyshev.
  16. dancergrl

    dancergrl Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    I agree that the hot/dirty passion thing doesn't need to be done all of the time, but the most successful teams have to be able to do it some of the time. The brother/sister teams don't make it to the very top, partly because they are automatically limited in range of program styles. V/M were light and entertaining several seasons in a row, but their Carmen program this year is getting them a lot of buzz and i'm sure will be their signature program.
  17. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,448
    I love the Shibutanis. One possible inspiration source could be Fred and Adele Astaire. They might also seek Derek and Julianne Hough of DWTS for conceptual and music ideas that would be suitable for siblings.
  18. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,970
    I really do think their FD this season has been their best FD since they turned senior.
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,147
    Here was a September 2012 article about their "Memoirs of a Geisha" free dance: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120904&content_id=37859440&vkey=ice_news

    In case you or anyone else missed it, the Maia and Alex jointly blogged about their D.C. State Dept. dinner experience in May 2012: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120508&content_id=30719578&vkey=ice_news
  20. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    Maybe Peter T! I think that he's such an underrated choreographer. If I were a pairs skater I would consider him. I have not seen too much of his work with mens singles. I remember him constantly outshining Naomi in the performances. It probably wouldnt be bad for some top Russian men to use him
  21. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    212
    As a brother-sister team, they've been used to each other's character, personality, appearance for their lifetime, it would be very difficult to adjust to another partner. As it was written before, ice dancing is more than romance and lust on ice, we've meanwhile witnessed quite some successful siblings teams in this sport. I really find it annoying when these well-matched teams get constantly accused of being incestous. That's simply offensive. The Shibutanis look so nice together, they match perfectly, as other brother-sister teams did/do, and if they like skating together, they should be given any support to pursue their carreer together. As with any couple, it only works as long as both partners want the same. In their case, it seems like they work very well together.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  22. care bear

    care bear Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Messages:
    635
    Well, just want to say that I love Maia and Alex and wish them all the best.
  23. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,073
    The brother-sister problem was elegantly and masterfully solved by Evgeny Platov for the Kerrs team. Shibutanis should go to him.

    OTOH, I'm extremely grateful that Madison Hubbell got to skate with someone not her brother.
  24. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
  25. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,147
    there's tons of non-romantic themes out there. even a/p's FD from 2002 could be done. something abstract, or maybe humanitarian causes or historical themes like pilgrims and such. they could completely do new age kind of music, just making shapes and forms to music like what v/m did with PF. i think the sibling's biggest challenge would be SDs that do require some romance/sensuality involved to get the nature of the dance such as tango/flamenco/rhumba/etc

    they just need to work with a really committed coach with resources that can get them access to outside choreographers or trainers like people from cirque du soleil.
  26. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2007
    Messages:
    685
    They are easily some of the best writers and artists of Team USA!
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  27. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,106
    Who else would they skate with who is as good as they are? I don't think they'd climb any higher in the world with any other partners. They would likely drop lower.

    I think a choreographic change could do some good. No romantic stuff, but maybe making Maia look a bit more edgy. They could try something like "Night on Bald Mountain".. that doesn't have any romantic connotations, does it?
  28. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    557
    Interesting point that I agree with. The last Olympic cycle had so many unusual events take place amongst the top dancers that contributed to how v/m and d/w were able to make such rapid progress. Think about it ... Bulgarian World champions had to quit amidst the tragedy of a drunk-driving accident in which he/partner killed someone; the 2-time World silver medalist Canadians retired midway through the cycle; World champions from France suffered a freak shoulder injury (she/partner) during an exhibition, then she got pregnant which obviously interfered with their preparations for the Olympics; the Russian world champions from year 3 were competing with his knees barely able to handle the demands of the sport; the previous Olympic silver medalists from the US experienced a series of poorly timed injuries. Agosto's groin kept them out of US nationals and forced them to withdraw from the Grand Prix final.

    Granted, during any season or cycle "unexpected" changes happen but I would have to think that having 5 gold or silver medalists from the major events essentially drop out or experience serious issues, was a PART of how both teams were able to ascend as rapidly as they did. Expecting this to be a "normal" trajectory for young teams is simply not ... "normal."

    To be absolutely clear (before the usual knee-jerk pouncing that tends to occur on boards) I am NOT saying v/m and d/w did not earn their ultimate leadership positions given their talent and performances. Just pointing out that a lot of cards did get turned over in unexpected and favorable ways, and to measure other teams like the Shibs based on recent history is somewhat problematic.

    In fact, the kind of results that the Shibs achieved their first year as seniors, ended up being the source of disadvantage for them in the seasons that have followed. Being the unexpected member of the first North American sweep of dance at Worlds, and in Moscow (to add insult to injury), could not have been a bigger source of "embarrassment" for the "establishments" in Russia and Europe. There was no question that they were going to be targets of unusual "scrutiny" at events leading up to an Olympics in Russia. In their case, the "chance" events have in contrast NOT been helpful in "smoothing a path" for them competitively.

    The Shibs are still very young. I think they are still age-eligible for juniors! It will be something like the 2020 season before she is the current age of Meryl, Anna or Kaitlyn and another decade before she is even near to Nathalie's age. They are young, have many strong core skills. They are smart kids and well known for their hard work. I think it is reasonable to expect that they will continue to develop in many ways over time.
  29. Fancypancy

    Fancypancy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    I agree 100% would love to see them with Platov
  30. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    693
    If creativity is what they need, I almost think they should leave Arctic Edge and take I-275 to I-696 and take Telegraph rd. to the Detroit Skating Club. Pasquale's wild imagination creates concepts that can barely be achieved LOL. Honestly, They would have to go non traditional in the choreography dept. It would be a new niche to be explored and original because few skaters are pushing the bounds with creativity baring the top Canadian's.

    Whatever it takes, they are such kind people that I would want them to succeed.
  31. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    212
    Has any brother-sister team ever split up to skate with other partners? I can't name any. And if there is/are, did the new match become more successful?
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,147
    Madison Hubbell went to her first Worlds last season with Zachary Donohue (ETA: in their first season together). Keiffer Hubbell will make his debut at 2013 Nationals with Anastasia Olson (she skated with an injury in their international debut at Ice Challenge last month).
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  33. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,147
    one interesting reverse case was tiffany steigler. she skated pairs with her brother and was on the cusp of their potential, but johnnie didnt want to pursue skating anymore and she grew so tall, so she transitioned into ice dancing. she wasnt as successful at it. if only she was paired with a very strong partner and had really good coaching
  34. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,397
    Tiffany Stiegler was paired with a very strong partner, but it was too late. When interviewed after the switch, she said as a pair skater, she'd always been envious of the dancers and wished to be one. Unfortunately, she didn't pursue it in time.

    The Duschenays won a world bronze, silver, and gold and an Olympic silver medal. When they did "West Side Story," they were Maria and Bernardo.
  35. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    212
    I didn't know about that partner change of Tiffany Stiegler's, and it's a pity she couldn't succeed more in ice dancing any more, obviously she would have liked to be an ice dancer. How old was she? Normally, ice dancers experience the height of their carreer later in life than pairs skaters.

    The Duchesnay's are my favourite brother-sister team ever, partly because they always stated that they would never skate with anyone else. They had also changed from pairs skating to ice dancing after a serious accident (apart from that Isabelle had become too tall for pairs). West Side Story was a rather strange thing, considering that Maria and Bernardo don't appear together in the musical/stageplay/book (when they skated it at the '92 Olympics, the commentators had to explain to the TV spectators who they were portraying, because everyone is used to the Maria-Tony-relation), but the Duchesnays would have been the perfect cast for these roles, had it been a show on ice. Their other programmes ("Missing" about the disappearance of people under dictatorship, "Reflections" about one person examining themself in a mirror and questioning their identity, "Savage Rites" about two people facing the dangers of the jungle) are interesting examples of non-romantic themes in ice dancing.
    There's such a variety of themes which don't suggest romance, the Shibutanis don't have to fear that they are anyhow limited in their expression.
  36. piano18

    piano18 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    496
    They need to go to a technique coach.
    IMO, their skating skills/basics are not WOW. I always thought of their skills to be a lot closer to their teammates Davis/White, rather than I/K or V/M. Actually, I find them a lot more like an elegant, quieter version of Davis/White.
  37. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,147
    that's one apt description
  38. missysays

    missysays New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    645
    I disagree. I find them to be a non-romantic version of Virtue and Moir. Same emphasis on lines and sustained edging and positions.
  39. Jasmar

    Jasmar Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    836
    What the heck? They're among the best, most skilled technicians out there. What they need, apart from a respite from the anti-NA backlash, is greater emotional depth in their skating. Which is highly attainable, as others have already pointed it with the Duchesnays and even Kerrs.
  40. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,147
    There will be a LIVE chat with the "Shib Sibs" on Tuesday, December 11 at 3:30pm EST on the Official Facebook page of the U.S. Olympic Committee: https://www.facebook.com/events/175255905954507/

    Alex also tweeted today that he and Maia "will be taping a segment for the @todayshow on Wed. (10 am) at Rockefeller Center that will air on Christmas morning!"