The rise of the Philippines in figure skating

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by AlexDSSF, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

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    I'll make sure I never upset the Filipino cleaning lady we have at work. :yikes:
     
  2. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Stay classy, Mrs. Martinez.
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    What is it with Filipino skaters and social media... :scream:

    Honestly, has Caluza learned nothing from Bulanghui's twitter fail? Those comments were unnecessary and mean-spirited.

    I have no clue what Martinez's health condition is and I highly doubt that Caluza does either, given Martinez's medical records aren't public notice. Martinez has already been selected for Olympics and he has had a successful season so far. He definitely has nothing to prove.

    (For the record: I do think that Caluza is a unique skater with strong all-round skills and fantastic performance quality and it is a shame that there wasn't a direct head-to-head between the two skaters and that the selection process wasn't more transparent.)

    This. Her hysteric, offensive rant was totally disproportionate. I feel sorry for Martinez but then he would probably never make it that far, given the limited resources available in the Philippines if she wasn't so crazy about his skating. :shuffle:
     
  4. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Caluza' reply on twitter:

    :D :p
     
  5. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    :watch:
     
  6. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Lordy, if I'd grown up in the social media era and my Mom ever went online to "defend" teenage me like that, I'd die a thousand deaths from embarrassment.
     
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I guess Caluza was discussing ideas, not people, when he tweeted about performing, etc. yesterday, but his timing in light of Martinez not skating was, at best, unfortunate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  8. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Mrs. Martinez deserves her own emoticon.
     
  9. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Caluza also tweeted a few days ago that "Best thing about today is I was out there skating with respect. No matter how sick I was or if I'm injured, I did what a champion does!" and then he followed that with the Tweet that was posted yesterday. Now, I don't know if he was ever in a position that he had to decide whether to compete injured or not, but being a champion is about skating well and being gracious, not about competing while injured and sick.

    I feel bad for Martinez, who probably just wants to skate and instead has to deal with Caluza's sniping and his own mother's over the top response.
     
  10. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    The PHI skating fed needs to sit their skaters down and go over social media and such. Establishing championship selection criteria/procedure wouldn't hurt either :shuffle: wonder if this is all part of being a newer skating fed. ?
     
  11. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Imho the Phillipine Figure Skating Association should sanction both Caluza and Mrs. Martinez, possibly with a fine as well. And if worse comes to worse they should do what the WTA did to Monica Seles father, banned for life from attending any WTA events. Enough is enough.

    silence is golden
     
  12. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

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    OFF TOPIC:

    That was Mary Pierce's abusive and crazy father.

    Monica Seles' father was on all account very nice (he used to draw cartoons to motivate Seles to play and have fun) and he passed away from cancer, which took a major toll on Seles.
     
  13. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how Mrs. Martinez can or should be sanctioned. Obviously she is not a skater and she's not listed as Michael's coach anymore in the ISU bio. Is she affiliated in any other official capacity with the federation? Whatever funding they get (if there is any) is for her son - who has not done anything wrong that I'm aware of. I suppose they could tell her not to come to Nationals next year. But unlike Bulanhagui, she didn't criticize the federation itself, so I doubt it'll come to that.

    As for Caluza, he never named any names and he's done nothing that's against the rules. He's already lost the assignment that he really wanted. So what would be the point, exactly?
     
  14. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think an argument can be made that thinly-veiled messages on a public forum against another skater in your federation could warrant a sanction. As for the point, maybe it would be to deter other skaters from exhibiting similar behavior? Maybe any future assignments he may have gotten but for his quick typing fingers and lack of mature judgment.

    The Federation needs to show some leadership and show that they have some control over its members when it comes to this sort of mud-slinging.
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Caluza was clearly trolling (and continues to do so with his subsequent 'great minds' tweet) and Maria Teresa Martinez caught the bait.

    Yes and probably yes, they just don't have experience yet and if it's mostly older people who run it, they might not know much about social media.

    I think that the best practice as far as selection criteria goes is what the Finnish Fed does.

    If I remember it correctly, there is a number of events assigned (before the start of the season) which are taken into consideration. The highest average point value from all of these events (national and international events and nationals) = selection for Euros and Worlds. Clear, transparent and fair and it rewards skating consistently all season as opposed to having one good competition at Nationals.
     
  16. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Why reward consistency at the expense of the ability to perform well when the pressure is the greatest? (Not that the P.S.U. is rewarding one or the other. I am asking as the issue relates to skating federations generally.)

    Beyond that, the Finnish Federation has some advantages that the P.S.U. does not, such as that most of its skaters train in their home country and that there are many Junior Grand Prix and Senior and Junior "B" events in nearby countries. I'm not sure that the P.S.U. could implement such a system right now even if it wanted to do so.
     
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It definitely wouldn't be applicable for the Filipino federation in the same way but the least they could have done was send Perticheto & Bulanghui and Caluza & Martinez to the same international events to see how they would stack up when judged by an independent judging panel.
     
  18. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Member

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    I went to look at Caluza's tweets and found that a @skating_ako was poking at him in addition. You will see only three tweets, which have a familiar message. So I am not really sure who started it or what occurred. I will say this however, we are all here because we love figure skating, and this type of activity toward each other reduces the beauty of our sport. Is it smart for the Olympic runner up to get into a fight with anyone. If Martinez is hurt for the Olympics, has Caluza now injured his chances in some way. Much the way that Bulanghui automatically got early retirement?

    I also think that the ISU needs to continue education to developing countries and their skating unions. I am not even sure smaller skating unions would even know that things like this are going on, as it was pointed out that the operators of these unions are generally older. I know that larger ones watch all the activities of their skaters, and the skaters are told what the game rules are. The communication is more open. New members will not have this type of skills in the beginning and will require more assistance from the ISU. To me these unions operate a branch office of the ISU. Some will be more skilled, larger, and have more resources. But the policy toward these types of things needs to come from headquarters, and be specific about how they review this information with their skaters and families. I am not saying they need to police it, but I am saying that in an increasing world of social media, they must set the guidelines to how these sorts of things are handled. After all, each one of these events, affects what people think about figure skating.
     
  19. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    Caluza's tweets from early October seemed to be directed to the federation after the selection was made, which supports the theory of lack of transparency and/or clarity in the criteria.

    Keep in mind Martinez has already competed 5 times this season - hopefully he'll better manage his recovery and training schedule by 4CCs and Olympics.
     
  20. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Oh, Caluza is trolling, but he is not stupid. He never goes so far as to name anyone or say anything specific about his federation, and therefore they can't accuse him of inappropriate behavior.
     
  21. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Caluza was being snarky, no doubt.

    But Mrs. Martinez' rant is despicable. She's exactly the kind of "monster mom" who SHOULD be reprimanded. I can appreciate her wanting to stand up for her child but, frankly, this isn't her battle. Her entire post was reprehensible. The only thing she accomplished was showing herself to be the true d-bag that she is.
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    That doesn't seemed to have stopped whoever is paying for both of them to take part in international events:

    Caluza:
    • 2012-13: Ice Challenge, USIFC, 4C's, Worlds
    • 2013-14: Lombardia, USIFC

    Martinez:
    • 2012-13: Volvo Cup, Crystal Skate, Cup of Nice, 4C's, Jr. Worlds + two JGPs
    • 2013-14: Volvo Open, USIFC + two JGP's

    Caluza and Martinez went head to head once last season and once at the beginning of this season:

    2013 Four Continents:
    • Caluza: 58.53 + 128.26 = 186.79
    • Martinez: 64.62 + 113.46 = 178.08

    2013 USIFC:
    • Caluza: 61.79 + 123.54 = 185.83
    • Martinez: 59.65 + 123.39 = 183.04

    With two head-to-head competitions and other international competitions over the last two seasons, there was no reason the Philippine Federation couldn't have created an algorithm to determine whom to send.

    Their decision to appoint someone early meant that Martinez wouldn't have had to skate Nationals injured or for their two skaters to be stressed out over competing up to the Olympic qualifier/final calculation, just as other federations have done for their top skaters. It's definitely a trade-off.
     
  23. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

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    Themselves and their families as far as I'm aware. Like many smaller/new skating nations, the Philippines nor its skaters get any government funding or support.

    As for the people running the smaller/new federations being older and not familiar with social media, that's certainly not my experience. In fact, the opposite is more likely to be the case. Caluza hasn't complained directly about his federation or a fellow skater so I'm not sure what anyone expects the Philippines federation to do. As for Mrs Martinez, she is also probably not a member of the Philippines federation so again they cannot tell her what to be posting or not on Facebook/Twitter.

    Because the skaters aren't getting funding from their federations, the only thing the federation holds over them is access to assignments. And if the Philippines or any other country is not sending their skaters out to competitions their membership of the ISU could be in jeopardy for not being active enough. It's a very precarious situation for a lot of these countries that those of you from more well-established skating nations are just not familiar with.
     
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    I first noticed Martinez's mother when she spoke out strongly about her son's lack of financial support from the government and federation in this article before the 2012 Youth Olympic Games: http://www.insidethegames.biz/sport...lipino-youth-olympic-games-hopes-on-thin-ice-

    It shocked me at the time, but then I realized that many "dragon"-type skating mothers or fathers don't care what outsiders think of them when it comes to protecting and defending the interests of their skater child. However, I agree with those who have posted that the personal attack in her recent outburst on FB was totally unnecessary (Zemgirl's post #149 contains a much better hypothetical response).

    Here's an editorial that was published before the start of Philippine Nationals: Michael Martinez: Our silver lining
    Excerpt (bolded by me):
    THIS. For example, Puerto Rico: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...ico-Figure-Skating-Federation-2013-14-Updates

    ETA:
    Caluza also won Philippine Nationals over Martinez last November - from the Archives:
    BTW, I've posted unofficial, partial results for this year's Philippine Nationals in the Kiss and Cry: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?90009-2013-Philippine-Nationals-in-Manila-Nov-23-24
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  25. twicken

    twicken New Member

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    Yes its the skater's and their families pay most of the cost if they compete internationally (though I heard they get some compensation for big competition like Worlds, and Olympics). For example Cabiles the 3rd placer in juniors last year was the only female competitor they had at the junior Grand Prix, which I am assuming because Perticheto and others does not have enough funds to compete in this events.

    Here is a feature on Martinez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTtqe332gMQ

    It's mostly in Filipino but he did say that his mother is a perfectionist and the only time he saw his mom smile and hugged him in the kiss and cry was when he placed 7th in Nebelhorn
     
    kwanfan1818 and (deleted member) like this.
  26. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Well, doesn't that just give you a warm and fuzzy feeling...

    I've found that, when referring to these Monster Moms as "perfectionists," what it really translates to is living vicariously through their children and, through their ridiculous demands, pushing their kids 1000% harder than they would ever dream of pushing themselves. I don't consider that love. It's a sickness, really.

    I wish Michael good luck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  27. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    Bottom line-- This twitter war (and Bulanhagui's) would have never escalated had the selection process been transparent. When there is a closed-door selection process, someone gets hurt. Hurt feelings are managed differently by different people. TRANSPARENT selection processes are a must. ALWAYS.
     
    Dr.Siouxs and (deleted member) like this.
  28. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but WTF?? :huh:
     
  29. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

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    Thank you siouxdonym. I thought exactly the same thing but wasn't bold enough to say it. You said it for me.
     
  30. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

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    Transparent, yes. But if you're saying that smaller countries have to have selection policies like the U.S. then I don't agree. Smaller federations have to make strategic decisions about what is best for the sport in their country. It is clear the the selectors in the Philippines feel that Martinez who is homegrown, much younger and has greater technical skills than Caluza is what will help the sport to grow at home. Sucks for Caluza, but I'd make the same decision myself.

    Was there something you didn't understand? Or does WTF mean What The Filippino?