The Mao cheer thread #3 - "For the love of skating"

[Spun Silver]

Oh dear. I just looked it up and it does sound plausible. I feel so terrible for her. Karpenko's idea makes a lot of sense. Surely she did enough at Finlandia to show she is still competitive at the top level when she's healthy... even if memories are short.

 

[arakwafan2006]

I think that her determination may be forcing her past what her body can handle. Mao has not really had a career plagued with serious injury so hopefully she gets the rest and attention she needs.

 

[gotoschool]

Mr Sato mentioned only about pains, so everything other than that is just a speculation. And my speculation is she's been struggling with "jumper's knee" by judging based on some stuffs like she's been struggling with pains, she was icing her left knee at last season's Cup of China (her second event of last season after JO), and she did best performances at her first events (last season it was JO and this season it was Finlandia Trophy) which she participated in after a certain length of rests during the off seasons. It means she can recover after a rest but the pains come back within a short term (i.e. a few weeks) when she re-start an intensive training. Dealing with jumper's knee must be something very tough at this stage of her career. She tried twice to run a satisfactory season but it didn't go well last season and it's going to be a repeat of last season's tragedy again in this season so far. She can be done earlier than it was desired.

Thanks rosewood for giving us something to go by and for everyone else's comments. Here is an internet site which gives the stages of jumper's knee which I think is also consistent with Mao's worsening condition, although I can't know for sure. According the site, since it is classified as a repetitive stress injury, it tends to get worse over time and under a lot of training. Again, this is just my guess buy maybe Mao has moved from Stage 1 at Cup of China to Stage 3 this season especially in the Skate America LP and even more at Trophee de Paris LP.

• Stage 1 - Pain only after activity, without functional impairment
• Stage 2 - Pain during and after activity, although the patient is still able to perform satisfactorily in his or her sport
• Stage 3 - Prolonged pain during and after activity, with increasing difficulty in performing at a satisfactory level
• Stage 4 - Complete tendon tear requiring surgical repair

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/jumpers_knee#2

I really wish Coach Sato would take an active role in trying to advise Mao about her level of condition in regards to competing at Nationals and well...I have to support her, but it is hard for me to understand considering what is at stake.

 

[clairecloutier]

Does anyone know exactly what is wrong with her knee? All I have heard is "pain." I know rosewood is right and our, at least my, job is to support her in whatever she decides to do, but I would still like to know, and I would like others to know as well. Gotoschool is right - other sports are so straightforward about injuries. Why does figure skating have to be so secretive, leaving poor Mao to be taken for an old lady instead of the heroic, but injured, athlete she is?

Yes. This is how I feel. At a certain point, it's better to be honest. Right now, the situation feels sadly similar to the last few years of Kwan's career, when Michelle could no longer perform at her usual level and no one knew why. Of course we learned afterward that Kwan was struggling with a very serious, major injury. But no one knew and so you got this narrative of, "Oh, Kwan is over the hill, she's too old, she just can't keep up." I hate to see Mao go down that path.

Mr Sato mentioned only about pains, so everything other than that is just a speculation. And my speculation is she's been struggling with "jumper's knee" by judging based on some stuffs like she's been struggling with pains, she was icing her left knee at last season's Cup of China (her second event of last season after JO), and she did best performances at her first events (last season it was JO and this season it was Finlandia Trophy) which she participated in after a certain length of rests during the off seasons. It means she can recover after a rest but the pains come back within a short term (i.e. a few weeks) when she re-start an intensive training. Dealing with jumper's knee must be something very tough at this stage of her career. She tried twice to run a satisfactory season but it didn't go well last season and it's going to be a repeat of last season's tragedy again in this season so far. She can be done earlier than it was desired.

If your suspicion is right, @rosewood, and it sounds like its possible, then I am so sorry for Mao.

 

[arakwafan2006]

Mao is under no obligation to disclose any more than she has to any of us. Respect that!

 

[clairecloutier]

I recognize she's under no obligation to disclose anything.

However, when an athlete chooses to keep an injury under wraps, speculation inevitably occurs as a result.

If Mao doesn't care about this, fine for her. As her fan, I do sort of care. But it's her decision, ultimately.

 

[Karpenko]

If anybody could learn to jump and skate on their hands though, it's Mao. With a beautiful line and musicality. She could probably get +GOE for feet over the head on her jumps.

She's never really skated like that when she's healthy, I think injury speculation in this case is pretty normal.

 

[rosewood]

Interview with Mr Sato back in Japan
(my rough translation)
Mao Asada's pain in her left knee: Her coach stated "she's been unable to do intensive training since we are afraid."
.....
Mao in this season has been forced to do careful adjustments due to chronicle pain she's been struggling with since last season. "She's been unable to do intensive training. If she does, I can see her level will go up to a certain level. That said, (since we are afraid of aggravating ,) she's been unable to do intensive training," Coach Sato stated painfully.
.....

 

[rosewood]

I recognize she's under no obligation to disclose anything.

However, when an athlete chooses to keep an injury under wraps, speculation inevitably occurs as a result.

If Mao doesn't care about this, fine for her. As her fan, I do sort of care. But it's her decision, ultimately.

I think people will still speculate no matter what she reveals. She has lived her life as such a big star. She's always announced her decision after she herself made up her mind. That's her strength that people adore. She said she made a comeback since she thought she can do more. So I think she'll leave competitions when she sees her body doesn't allow her to do more. It's sad but can't be helped. That said, I still have a hope that her physical condition will recover to a good enough level. We'll see.

ETA:
At least she made a comeback and showed us two more fabulous long programs plus the awesome Cello Suit (the competitive programs are flawed, tho). And I'm glad you saw her in person this season again. Thanks for the report. Reading your report made me feel as if I was at SKAM. I'm sorry for my late reply but forgive me since I was devastated at the time by noticing her skating was affected by the knee injury earlier this season than last season.

 

[gotoschool]

I recognize she's under no obligation to disclose anything.

However, when an athlete chooses to keep an injury under wraps, speculation inevitably occurs as a result.

If Mao doesn't care about this, fine for her. As her fan, I do sort of care. But it's her decision, ultimately.

I will just give kind of a general cultural observation between the US and at least Central Asia. The people I know in Central Asia rarely talk about health other than just to mention a couple of words about how they feel, but even then not that often. I know that if an illness or injury is mentioned repeatedly it is considered complaining, whereas in the US from my experience it is customary for someone to ask and say how they feel and even to discuss it in detail. Besides, Mao has said she has a knee injury. It was clearly reported after Finlandia and mentioned again at Skate America, which is unusual for Mao or Coach Sato from my experience. I think the translation barrier plays a role, but The Skating Lesson mentioned it in the short interview they did with Mao.

I support Mao and her decision but there is a side of me that projects what has happened so far this season into the future and is concerned about the results at Nationals battling a degenerative injury and how it could impact her decision to continue and even more so how it could affect her emotionally and physically. But, I suppose this is selfish of me since it is Mao's career and she has the right to make her own choices. Mao has always had a kind of tragic grandeur that I thought was very rare and noble as if it came from a time long ago and since it is one of my favorite qualities in her personality and skating I will accept whatever she chooses to do knowing that she has had huge transformations in her jump success between competitions and the SP and LP before just as my avatar always reminds me.

As far as Mao's comeback, I know that Mao's Madame Butterfly at Worlds will always be one of my all time favorite performances deeply moving and full of beautiful ethereal catharsis. Her Cup of China SP is also one of my very favorites and I love her programs this year. With Mao, her performances have always had an impact far out of all proportion to the scores and I think one of the greatest compliments to give an artist and performer is that they weren't defined by how well they did under the guise of a system, but how well they were able transcend the system and define themselves outside the confines of its limited definitions and highly biased evaluations. I know of no other performer who has done this as well as Mao, and I know that she will continue to cast this kind of magic spell on me in the future.

 

[kittyjake5]

As a fan of Mao I of course want her to take care of body first and foremost. I believe skating is important
to her but competing with a nagging injury that prevents her from being in good form must be
devastating to her.

Dai went through hell with his injuries leading up to Soci, he now mentions it often in interviews as the lowest point of his
long career, good days, bad days, pushing himself, not well enough to train properly, he said he was not in a good
physical or mental condition but he believed he could do it. He never blamed his injuries for his poor performances.
I don't want to see the lovely Mao go through any more anguish. My fingers are crossed for her!

 

[rosewood]

Another article which has an interview with Mr Sato back in Japan. Every article has a light different nuance to each other. So maybe reading multiple articles will help us to understand what he said better.
http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/winter/20161115-OHT1T50007.html
(my rough translation)
.....
Regarding her preparations for Nationals in late February December which is the final selection meeting for Worlds in March "We haven't discussed about the things after this yet. We need to go with paying attention to her conditions. Other than that, there would be (treatments in) a hospital or the like," Coach Sato talked cautiously.
_____

Mr Sato doesn't talk much either so it's difficult for us to know what's going on in detail anyways.

@gotoschool, Mao hasn't said she's "injured" (yet), she just said about her current condition at SKAM as "not good."

 

[Spun Silver]

Nationals is in February? I thought it was around Christmas (12/25). That would give her lots of healing time... the irony, of course, being that she might use up all her knee health at Nats and have nothing left for Worlds.

I was waiting for Mao or Mr Sato to mention something like "hospital." Does that sound like surgery is a possibility? Because she is surely already doing every kind of physical therapy they think can help her.

 

[rosewood]

Nationals is in February? I thought it was around Christmas (12/25). That would give her lots of healing time... the irony, of course, being that she might use up all her knee health at Nats and have nothing left for Worlds.

I was waiting for Mao or Mr Sato to mention something like "hospital." Does that sound like surgery is a possibility? Because she is surely already doing every kind of physical therapy they think can help her.

My bad. Nationals is December. Mr Sato's comment was too short to understand what he meant exactly. I'm going to post a translation later, but in brief I read an article that JSF will have a discussion about changing their current selection criteria for Sr Worlds during Jr Nationals. The article said there is a possibility that there will not be enough number of Sr skaters who meet the current criteria. I kind of have bad feelings about the possibility of changing the criteria. If it's truly due to the possibility they said, it's OK. But if it's intended to open a wider door for Mao to be sent to Worlds, I don't like it. If she'll not be ready for meeting the current criteria, I wish JSF leave her at home for recovering. I kind of feel Mao's condition is not too bad where she needs a surgery but she's not god enough to do intensive training. That must be a frustration for her and tough situation mentally.

 

[rosewood]

This morning's newspaper article:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxQll1tUcAAvUSB.jpg
(my rough translation)
It was revealed the selection criteria for Worlds will be reconsidered. Skaters will be selected after finishing Nationals (starts from Dec the 23rd). Mao Asada missed the GP final by placing as low as 9th at Trophy de France. Since her 10th participation in Worlds depends on the selection, it will draw people's attention whether the reconsideration of the criteria gives any effect.

Japan has 3 spots each for men and ladies. According to the criteria which JSF decided in this past July, the winner at Nationals gets the first spot. The 2nd and 3rd spots will go to the skaters selected based on various requirements such as skaters who placed 2nd and 3rd at Nationals, or skaters who placed the highest or the 2nd highest among Japanese skaters who skated at GP final, and so on. While, there came up possibilities in ladies' field that lots of Jr skaters such as Marin Honda who are not age eligible for Sr Worlds may place high at Nationals, or there will not be many Japanese skaters at the GP final. In those cases there will not be enough number of skaters who meet the current criteria, and thus JSF becomes unable to select skaters. For that reason, JSF will have an exceptional meeting for reconsidering the criteria during Jr Naitonals which start from the 18th this month in Sapporo.

Asada places the 4th highest among Japanese skaters in ISU's world standings. She needs to place high enough at Nationals for winning a spot for Worlds. If the hurdle gets lower by the reconsideration, there will be a possibility the change can enlarge her chance to be sent to Worlds.
____

Here is my translation of the current criteria:

JSF published 2016-2017 selection criteria for international competitions
http://www.skatingjapan.or.jp/image_data/fck/file/2016/160622_FS_Senkokijun.pdf
(my rough translation)

Jr GP circuit
1.Singles
Skaters are to be selected in the selection meeting scheduled in June by taking the following things into considerations: a) evaluations of required elements for the selection meeting b) performance c) international competitive strength.
2.Pairs, Ice Dance
Teams are to be selected based on the international competitive strength.

Jr Worlds
(Men 2, Ladies 3, Pairs 1, Ice Dance 1)
1.Men
(1)The first skater is to be the Jr Nationals champion.
(2)The second skater will be selected from the skaters who are Jr age eligible and meet either of the criteria below:
a)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in Jr Nationals.
b)Skaters who participated in the Jr GP final.
c)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in Sr Nationals.
d)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in ISU World Standings as of the end of Sr Nationals.
e)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in ISU Season's Best Scores as of the end of Sr Nationals.
2.Ladies
(1)The first skater is to be the Jr Nationals champion.
(2)The second and third skaters will be selected from the skaters who are Jr age eligible and meet either of the criteria below:
a)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in Jr Nationals.
b)Skaters who participated in the Jr GP final.
c)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in Sr Nationals.
d)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in ISU World Standings as of the end of Sr Nationals.
e)Skaters who placed 3rd or higher in ISU Season's Best Scores as of the end of Sr Nationals.
*Skaters are required to participate in Sr Nationals which is the final selection meeting. That said, if a skater who's ever placed 3rd or higher in Jr Worlds in the past was unable to participate in Sr Nationals due to unavoidable reasons, there will be possibilities that the skater's previous results prior to the point when the unavoidable reasons i.e. injuries occurred are evaluated based on the selection criteria above and at the same time prospects of the conditions at the point of Jr Worlds will be taken into considerations.
*If a selected skater does not have minimum scores for the competition, the skater will be sent to an international competition to receive the minimums.
*Candidates are required to have skated a Jr eligible short program in a Jr competition of this season and to have proved that the skater is able to receive good enough results.
3.Pairs and Ice Cance
Teams are to be selected based on the international competitive strength.
*Skaters are basically required to participate in Sr Nationals which is the final selection meeting.
*If a selected team does not have minimum scores for the competition, the team will be sent to an international competition to receive the minimums.

Worlds
(Men 3, Ladies 3, Pairs 1, Ice Dance 1)
1.Singles
(1)First skater is to be the champion of Nationals.
(2)Second skater is to be selected by considering in a comprehensive way from the skaters who meet either of the criteria below:
a)Skaters who placed 2nd and 3rd in the Nationals
b)Top two skaters among Japanese skaters (aside from a) skater) in the GP final.
(3)Third skater is to be selected by considering in a comprehensive way from the skaters who meet either of the criteria below:
a)Skaters who were not selected despite meeting (2) a) or b)).
b)Skaters who placed from 4th to 6th in the Nationals.
c)Skaters who place 3rd or higher in ISU World Standing as of the end of the Nationals.
d)Skaters who place 3rd or higher in ISU Season's Best Scores as of the end of the Nationals.
*Skaters are required to participate in Nationals which is the final selection meeting. That said, if a skater who's ever placed 3rd or higher in Worlds in the past was unable to participate in Nationals due to unavoidable reasons, there will be possibilities that the skater's previous results prior to the point when the unavoidable reasons i.e. injuries occurred are evaluated based on the selection criteria above and at the same time prospects of the conditions at the point of Worlds will be taken into considerations.
2.Pairs and Ice Dance
Teams are to be selected based on the international competitive strength.
*Skaters are basically required to participate in Sr Nationals which is the final selection meeting.
*If a selected team does not have minimum scores for the competition, the team will be sent to an international competition to receive the minimums.

Asian Winter Games
1.Singles
(1)First skater is to be the champion of Nationals.
(2)Second skater is to be selected from eligible skaters by considering in a comprehensive way from the skaters who meet either of the criteria below:
a)Top six skaters in Nationals.
b)Skaters placed 6th or higher in ISU Wrolds Standing as of the end of Nationals.
c)Skaters placed 6th of higher in ISU Season's Ranking as of the end of Nationals.
d)Skaters placed 6th or higher in ISU Season's Best Scores as the end of Nationals.
*Skaters are required to participate in Nationals which is the final selection meeting. That said, if a skater who's ever placed 3rd or higher in Worlds in the past was unable to participate in Nationals due to unavoidable reasons, there will be possibilities that the skater's previous results prior to the point when the unavoidable reasons i.e. injuries occurred are evaluated based on the selection criteria above and at the same time prospects of the conditions at the point of Asian Winter Games will be taken into considerations.
*JSF have already reported the name lists of the candidates to JOC. Skaters have to take the medical checks which are required to the athletes who participate in Asian Winter games by the given dead line.
2.Pairs and Ice Dance
Teams are to be selected based on the international competitive strength.
*Skaters are basically required to participate in Sr Nationals which is the final selection meeting.
*JSF have already reported the name lists of the candidates to JOC. Skaters have to take the medical checks which are required to the athletes who participate in Asian Winter games by the given dead line.

4CC
1.Singles
Skaters are to be selected by considering in a comprehensive way from the skaters who meet either of the criteria below:
a)Top ten skaters in Nationals.
b)Skaters placed 6th or higher in ISU Wrolds Standing as of the end of Nationals.
c)Skaters placed 6th of higher in ISU Season's Ranking as of the end of Nationals.
d)Skaters placed 6th or higher in ISU Season's Best Scores as the end of Nationals.
*Skaters are required to participate in Nationals which is the final selection meeting. That said, if a skater who's ever placed 3rd or higher in Worlds in the past was unable to participate in Nationals due to unavoidable reasons, there will be possibilities that the skater's previous results prior to the point when the unavoidable reasons i.e. injuries occurred are evaluated based on the selection criteria above and at the same time prospects of the conditions at the point of 4CC will be taken into considerations.
*If a selected skater does not have minimum scores for the competition, the team will be sent to an international competition to receive the minimums.
2.Pairs and Ice Dance
Teams are to be selected based on the international competitive strength.
*Skaters are basically required to participate in Sr Nationals which is the final selection meeting.
*If a selected team does not have minimum scores for the competition, the team will be sent to an international competition to receive the minimums.

Universiade Winter Games
Skaters will be selected in

the selection meeting scheduled in the beginning of December.
Further information of the selection will be published after the detailed information of the competition is open.
*JSF have already reported the name lists of the candidates to JOC. Skaters have to take the medical checks which are required to the athletes who participate in Universiade Winter Games by the given dead line.

Synchro Worlds
Teams are to be selected based on the international competitive strength.

World Team Trophy
Basically we follow ISU's selection criteria. (Top two singles skaters and the top pairs and Ice Dance teams in ISU World Standings as of the end of Worlds.)

Other international competitions
*For novice international competitions skaters will be selected from the skaters who placed high in the Novice National Championships. There are possibilities that skaters are selected in the National Summer Scouting Camp as well.
*Regarding international competitions JSF will research the skaters prior to the selection, and skaters will be selected following JSF's policy of strengthening skaters. There are possibilities that specific selection meetings can be held as necessarily.
________

Not changed much. One notable thing is that a skater can be selected for Worlds even if the skater was unable to participate in Nationals in the case the skater meet the criteria. JSF used to have a strong policy to require skaters to participate in Nationals in the past.

 

[Spun Silver]

^^ About the knee, @rosewood (end of your post), I would think that if she has been not been able to train full-on for months then surgery may be the only answer, but she probably hoped she could put it off so as to finish the season. Just a guess, obviously. Or maybe the knee is OK for a very reduced, spaced-out competition schedule, and her mistake was thinking she could manage the whole enchilada.

I dont know what to think about the Worlds team selection, but at least with Nats in Dec., if she does make the team, she would have time to rest her knee thoroughly again.

Trying not to get all emotional about this situation but it's hard to read about Mao in tears and so upset with herself.

 

[rosewood]

^^ About the knee, @rosewood (end of your post), I would think that if she has been not been able to train full-on for months then surgery may be the only answer, but she probably hoped she could put it off so as to finish the season. Just a guess, obviously. Or maybe the knee is OK for a very reduced, spaced-out competition schedule, and her mistake was thinking she could manage the whole enchilada.

I dont know what to think about the Worlds team selection, but at least with Nats in Dec., if she does make the team, she would have time to rest her knee thoroughly again.

Trying not to get all emotional about this situation but it's hard to read about Mao in tears and so upset with herself.

This is a hearsay and I haven't read it myself but I read a report from a person who read two recently published FS magazines that Mao's physical condition has been back and forth since autumn - after finishing THE ICE she started serious training to prepare for Finlandia Trophy, after a few weeks she got pains in her left knee, and she needed to take a rest, and then she re-started training but she had to give up training as hard as she used to do in the past, and as a result she could not pull her condition to her top form. Between FT and SKAM, and also between SKAM and TdF, she repeated the same process.

It looks to me she's gradually loosing her muscle due to lack of hard enough training. TAT mentioned during her commentary at TdF, that she wondered if Mao's doing physical training that she needs i.e. at gym. Daisuke also mentioned on a TV program that Mao's current condition overlaps his final two years before his retirement. He felt her muscle reaction is late compared to her normal self. Maybe Dai as an athlete saw Mao's whole body was gradually getting out of shape. (If she's struggling with jumper's knee, I guess she's been back and forth between step 2 and step 3, and not reached step 4 where you needs a surgery. See gotoschool's post here.)

On a bright side, Mai said on a TV program that she saw Mao doing 3A during the preparations. So Mao's condition was not as serious as she needed a surgery at least at the point of the preparations for TdF. Mr Sato mentioned after SKAM that Mao was doing 3A during preparations as well, but he couldn't give her a go for upping the level of her training to get the just a bit short rotation completed. Meanwhile, Mai said Mao's been struggling mentally (maybe due to dilemma?). Mai wished Mao skated with more energy and passion at TdF even if she was unable to do triple jumps. Mai said Mao was able to do so if she wanted. Mao is the type who builds up her self-confidence by piling up training, so the lack of training causes mental issues at the same time. All in all, it seems to me that the thing is not simple but a mixture of various stuffs caused by lack of hard enough training. If she manages to get back to her normal level of training or close to it, things can start go up-spiral again. Fingers crossed.

 

[chapis]

Thanks for the updates, and yes, it is a sad situation to see Mao in the last places and injured, but seeing at live was wonderful like always, I can watch her performances over Evgenia´s any day, sorry, she is super cute and nice but her skating is soooo no my style. And it was great seeing so many people was there just for Mao or mainly because her, and receiving many gifts. I hope she is healthy soon.

And the shallow comment: she was the most beautiful girl at the competition, no doubt. Just seeing her standing on the ice is an spectacle to my eyes, so pretty , and I feel she doesn´t even know it. Why she has not instagram like every normal figure skater? . rhetoric.

 

[Spun Silver]

Thank you for the info, devastating as it is. A question: I thought this pain started last season? i would swear I read that here a month or two ago. I cant help thinking that surgery is the one thing other than a LONG rest (which comes to the same thing -- losing a lot of time) that could solve this problem. But I am not a medical person, and the inexorable calendar would make it a very hard choice. Tough situation for Mao and her team. Fingers crossed.

 

[Spun Silver]

Why she has not instagram like every normal figure skater? . rhetoric.

Good question! It would be good now to take her mind off her physical troubles. I am sure fs-gossips would be happy to include Mao in her photos of the week.

 

[gotoschool]

This is a hearsay and I haven't read it myself but I read a report from a person who read two recently published FS magazines that Mao's physical condition has been back and forth since autumn - after finishing THE ICE she started serious training to prepare for Finlandia Trophy, after a few weeks she got pains in her left knee, and she needed to take a rest, and then she re-started training but she had to give up training as hard as she used to do in the past, and as a result she could not pull her condition to her top form. Between FT and SKAM, and also between SKAM and TdF, she repeated the same process.

It looks to me she's gradually loosing her muscle due to lack of hard enough training. TAT mentioned during her commentary at TdF, that she wondered if Mao's doing physical training that she needs i.e. at gym. Daisuke also mentioned on a TV program that Mao's current condition overlaps his final two years before his retirement. He felt her muscle reaction is late compared to her normal self. Maybe Dai as an athlete saw Mao's whole body was gradually getting out of shape. (If she's struggling with jumper's knee, I guess she's been back and forth between step 2 and step 3, and not reached step 4 where you needs a surgery. See gotoschool's post here.)

On a bright side, Mai said on a TV program that she saw Mao doing 3A during the preparations. So Mao's condition was not as serious as she needed a surgery at least at the point of the preparations for TdF. Mr Sato mentioned after SKAM that Mao was doing 3A during preparations as well, but he couldn't give her a go for upping the level of her training to get the just a bit short rotation completed. Meanwhile, Mai said Mao's been struggling mentally (maybe due to dilemma?). Mai wished Mao skated with more energy and passion at TdF even if she was unable to do triple jumps. Mai said Mao was able to do so if she wanted. Mao is the type who builds up her self-confidence by piling up training, so the lack of training causes mental issues at the same time. All in all, it seems to me that the thing is not simple but a mixture of various stuffs caused by lack of hard enough training. If she manages to get back to her normal level of training or close to it, things can start go up-spiral again. Fingers crossed.

I read a comment somewhere through google translate that Mao felt good with her SP performance at Trophy de France because it was better than her practices in Japan, which concerned me though I liked her performance a lot because it indicated her training was not going well. So, this comment kind of contradicted the fact that Mao was able to land the triple axel. What I have noticed is that it isn't doing one jump but the process of many jumping passes that seems to bring on the knee pain and of course together with her lack of intensive training also decreases her endurance and reaction time so that under pressure in a series of passes combos like the triple flip and loop and the triple flip / double loop / double loop which require quick reaction time are extremely difficult if not impossible given her present condition. The lack of flexibility and control over balance in what is likely the injured tendon also has made it more difficult for Mao to hold onto landings.

As far as her jumps are concerned, it is clear to me that they have deteriorated with each competition. Mao had no ur calls at Finlandia Trophy. I thought her ur calls in Skate America were bogus or extremely harsh especially the triple flip in the SP but they were nonetheless an indication that she had less loft in her jumps. And by her SP at Trophy of France even I have to admit I saw a ur and her double axel lacked the height it usually has which caused me to be surprised when you said that she was doing triple axels. The difference between the Finlandia LP and the Trophy of France LP is great in terms of jumping. Perhaps a lot of it is mental, but as a poster said who was at Trophy of France Mao only did two triples in warmup in the LP and all the rest were doubles and they insisted that they thought the problem was physical. Another issue that may make the jumps more difficult is based on the simple laws of physics: Mao's slight increase in weight since her injury. Personally, I think Mao is as beautiful if not more than she has ever been. I think the little increase in weight makes her look more womanly and she looks utterly stunning in her costumes and make up this season. Totally glamorous.

But, the slight increase in weight probably makes it more difficult to get loft in her jumps especially since the slight increase in weight is probably not mostly muscle since she hasn't been training as much. Therefore, a return to intensive training which seems to only be possible through long term treatment and recovery would not only increase her endurance and balance in dong jumps but make it easier to slim down a bit (only because it is needed to do so many triple jumps otherwise no need outside of competition) while also increasing her muscle mass. I still hope Mao doesn't go to Nationals and seeks long term treatment and healing because the trend in her jumping performances has been downwards. I did read somewhere in translation that Mao didn't think she could reach the level she wants unless her physical condition improved, which was the first bit of realism I heard about her preparations for her next competitions and gave me hope that she may consider her physical condition carefully before competing at Nationals. So, I guess the question is how can Mao recuperate from an injury that is not healing without surgery when it hasn't progressed to the point yet to require surgery. Perhaps preventative surgery is the answer? I am just guessing.

My vision is what karpenko said doing whatever is possible to get in PEAK condition for next year because if the treatment and recuperation is put off for too long it may be too late to do so for the Olympic season and because more potential performances like Mao had at Trophy of France may discourage her from continuing. And I don't want my heart to break again by seeing her cry!

Again, I will support her decision whatever it is, but my rational side is just looking at her jumping performances and her conditioning level for jumps.

Scoring is a separate issue but the ISU is using her decreased tech content and or decision to do a lot of doubles to further deflate her PCS scores, even though it is not part of the PCS criteria, and the JSF may as well, which is another reason I would like her to seek treatment and recovery so she can increase her tech content before competing again. I honestly wish Mao was skating in another system and circumstance, I am so tired of judges and I dream of Mao skating totally free of their extra intense scrutiny, but this is the one I find my favorite skater in.

In conclusion, does anyone know if Mao may feel forced to skate with her injury because of commitments to sponsors or the JSF?

 

[gotoschool]

Thank you for the info, devastating as it is. A question: I thought this pain started last season? i would swear I read that here a month or two ago. I cant help thinking that surgery is the one thing other than a LONG rest (which comes to the same thing -- losing a lot of time) that could solve this problem. But I am not a medical person, and the inexorable calendar would make it a very hard choice. Tough situation for Mao and her team. Fingers crossed.

rosewood reported that Mao was icing her knee as early as Cup of China which was almost exactly a year ago.

 

[gotoschool]

I just wanted to point out that Mao's most viewed videos of her SP at Skate America with the biggest compliments for her performance and the greatest criticism of the scores have both been removed, while the most viewed copies of other skaters have not from what I have seen, just as the copy of her Sochi LP with almost 3 million views was removed by the IOC while that of other skaters with HD copies and the IOC logo were not. Another video of her Sochii LP with over 1 million views was also removed. I believe it it consistent with her persistent underscoring and the refusal of announcers to mention her well publicized knee injury which has the effect of misleading people into believing that Mao is healthy while having jumping difficulties.

Here is one of the links that has been removed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIRVt0JXftI

Mao's nemesis Gallagher has released another hatchet job on Mao in which again information about her left knee injury is not even mentioned and beneath the articles any critical comments are censored and removed. I have had two comments removed and I know at least two other people have had critical comments removed.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2...ut-mao-crisis/

One of the most telling comments in the article is one by a skating (or ISU) "expert" who said that Mao with or without the triple axel would finish between 4th and 10th in the world at world championships if she skated perfectly. The fact that the skating "expert" he quotes says Mao would finish between 4th and 10th at worlds with or without a triple axel if she skated totally clean shows much these insiders have placements "fixed" in their minds before even seeing the skaters skate and in my opinion how much Mao's great qualities are automatically deflated through bias. I think she should definitely win in this circumstance with the triple axel and this is a popular view on other forums.

 

[gotoschool]

Here are some great photos of Mao from the Trophy de France. Thanks to YesWay for posting.
http://photos.phantomkabocha.com/FigureSkating/TdF2016/MaoAsada/index.html

 

[rosewood]

I will just give kind of a general cultural observation between the US and at least Central Asia. The people I know in Central Asia rarely talk about health other than just to mention a couple of words about how they feel, but even then not that often. I know that if an illness or injury is mentioned repeatedly it is considered complaining, whereas in the US from my experience it is customary for someone to ask and say how they feel and even to discuss it in detail. Besides, Mao has said she has a knee injury. It was clearly reported after Finlandia and mentioned again at Skate America, which is unusual for Mao or Coach Sato from my experience. I think the translation barrier plays a role, but The Skating Lesson mentioned it in the short interview they did with Mao.

I don't think Japan is in Central Asia at least. Mao is unique even compared to ordinal Japanese people, good or bad. There are reasons why people say Mao is like a samurai. It's rare to live one's life like her nowadays. To me her silence looks more like "A defeated general should not talk of the battle" rather than being afraid of seen as just complaining or the like. Mai said on a TV program (here is a video link) that she can't mention Mao's physical condition since Mao herself hasn't mentioned it yet. It's Mr Sato who said Mao's been struggled with knee pain since last season. Mao just said her condition was "not good" after finishing the official practice at TdF. Mai on a radio show (video link) also said Mao will not reveal anything before the season finished. I kind of think Mao got to the point of determination of accepting the possibility of underwhelming scene on her final stage of her career, when she went through the period of half-half.

Now gossipy or S Korea friendly Japanese media/people started dissing Mao on making a mistake on understanding when to retire. I kind of don't care whatever they say. Mao has lived her life surrounded by such buzz around her for over a decade. In many cases those people just looked mean. I think if the decision of her comeback was wrong, she'll just accept it was wrong. That said, I still have a hope to see her redemption in the rest of this season or in next season. It's when she said "I'm done," when I see she's done. Hopefully her team will find out the way to get away from the down-spiral.

ETA:
As I said before, if her comeback is not successful as a result, I just thankful for everything she showed us on the extra stage of her career. Love those programs for these seasons.

 

[gotoschool]

I don't think Japan is in Central Asia at least. Mao is unique even compared to ordinal Japanese people, good or bad. There are reasons why people say Mao is like a samurai. It's rare to live one's life like her nowadays. To me her silence looks more like "A defeated general should not talk of the battle" rather than being afraid of seen as just complaining or the like. Mai said on a TV program (here is a video link) that she can't mention Mao's physical condition since Mao herself hasn't mentioned it yet. It's Mr Sato who said Mao's been struggled with knee pain since last season. Mao just said her condition was "not good" after finishing the official practice at TdF. Mai on a radio show (video link) also said Mao will not reveal anything before the season finished. I kind of think Mao got to the point of determination of accepting the possibility of underwhelming scene on her final stage of her career, when she went through the period of half-half.

Now gossipy or S Korea friendly Japanese media/people started dissing Mao on making a mistake on understanding when to retire. I kind of don't care whatever they say. Mao has lived her life surrounded by such buzz around her for over a decade. In many cases those people just looked mean. I think if the decision of her comeback was wrong, she'll just accept it was wrong. That said, I still have a hope to see her redemption in the rest of this season or in next season. It's when she said "I'm done," when I see she's done. Hopefully her team will find out the way to get away from the down-spiral.

ETA:
As I said before, if her comeback is not successful as a result, I just thankful for everything she showed us on the extra stage of her career. Love those programs for these seasons.

Thanks for your eloquent answer. I was just trying to understand from my own personal experience, rightly or wrongly, and I am glad you provided your own view because I think you worded it better than me. I was always taught and though that not complaining had the positive qualities of quiet endurance and acceptance of responsibility, so I think it is consistent with Mao's noble warrior mentality. I was just trying to defend Mao because I love her skating so much and I don't want her to be upset. I am just glad for every chance I get to see her skate and I too hope she can experience many moments of redemption that will bring a bright beaming smile to her face, and realize all the incredibly beautiful performances she has given and how much beauty she still brings to her skating even in the face of injury.

For example, since she came back, I know one friend who doesn't even like to watch figure skating who thought Mao's Cup of China SP was very impressive and beautiful. And if Mao hadn't come back, my mom wouldn't have gotten to see what she called the most beautiful performance she had ever seen: Mao's Worlds 2016 freeskate. I must say these are two of my all time favorite performances as well and after all Mao had done before- her achievements are beyond glorious. How many have been mesmerized by her exhibition program this season and she has given some beautifully clean performances of her SP and a wonderful performance of her LP at Finlandia and as always her skating, choreography, expression, spins and steps are fabulous and so beautifully sophisticated and subtle.

 

[chapis]

For sure, people who criticizes her are mediocre people in life who don´t try because they are afraid of the failure. Mao is beyond of good or bad, she will be remember like a great athlete regardless her failures. I think she is a great example of life, she does what she loves, she always try even if the situation is not the ideal o easiest, she is very true to herself. She is very special and I feel sorry for people who can´t see it.

 

[rosewood]

For sure, people who criticizes her are mediocre people in life who don´t try because they are afraid of the failure. Mao is beyond of good or bad, she will be remember like a great athlete regardless her failures. I think she is a great example of life, she does what she loves, she always try even if the situation is not the ideal o easiest, she is very true to herself. She is very special and I feel sorry for people who can´t see it.

Well said @chapis!

I'm a type who is interested in people. Of course I love Mao's skating so much but I'm not sure whether I followed her for this long or this enthusiastically if she's not such an interesting person. I've always wondered why she behaves in such such way or why she's capable of doing so. I kind of feel I'm getting close to one of the answers. That is she's capable of accepting or swallowing the things which are usually very difficult for other people to accept or swallow. Keeping silent in this situation and focusing on seeking the way to get over the current difficulty can be one of them.

 

[gotoschool]

Well said @chapis!

I'm a type who is interested in people. Of course I love Mao's skating so much but I'm not sure whether I followed her for this long or this enthusiastically if she's not such an interesting person. I've always wondered why she behaves in such such way or why she's capable of doing so. I kind of feel I'm getting close to one of the answers. That is she's capable of accepting or swallowing the things which are usually very difficult for other people to accept or swallow. Keeping silent in this situation and focusing on seeking the way to get over the current difficulty can be one of them.

This is a little off the topic of quiet acceptance of hardship, but related in the sense of trying to find out who Mao is as a person. I actually find Mao more mysterious the longer I follow her and her skating. I thought she was sweet, lovely and exceptionally graceful and ethereal the first time I saw her skate but then she kept revealing new layers of more complex darker and joyous emotions as she matured that made her skating even more compelling like the topography of her expression was growing higher and deeper as a canyon carved out of a rising mountain side becomes steeper as it experiences the passage of time. I just saw Bells of Moscow after a long time and I got misty eyed yet I felt pure elation when I saw I Got Rhythm: almost two completely contrasting emotions with only the thread of Mao's transcendent beauty weaving them together.

A lot of the mystery for me comes from her ability to seem incredibly sad one moment and full of joy the next, or showing a noble pride and distance one moment which I think is consistent with her high level of refinement but then kind of clowning and kidding around the next. The longer I watch her performances or interviews and try to figure her out, the less I feel like I can pin her down because the number of rolls she has assumed spans such a great spectrum of styles and moods. Even though I don't know Mao personally it is the mystique she created and that I formed in my own mind- my own myth of Mao- that I totally fell for and her ability to create such fascinating enchantment and spine tingling emotional resonance. And these qualities in addition to her great beauty and charm that cast such a spell are the very things that make it hard to get to know her, the star struck fan syndrome, even though I feel such sympathy and connection to her as a person.

 

[gotoschool]

This is one of my favorite galleries for lovely Mao photos from 2007-2010. I know I have posted it before, but it is also one of the hardest to find because the google search engine never seems to find it, so I am re or "three" posting it so as not lose it.

http://figuregallery.tistory.com/ent...edalist-on-Ice


Here are a lot more links to Mao photos by using the search engine for the site: http://figuregallery.tistory.com/search/Mao Asada

Hint on how to save. right click on the small picture and you can save it and the photo is still at the full resolution after you download.