Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TheIronLady, Jan 22, 2013.
She was fifth after the short.
Ironically I started to enjoy Meissner's skating after her jumps left her. Her Turandot was subtle but nice. I wish the Japan open version was on youtube because it was probably her most solid performance of that program (and overall after 2007 Worlds).
And her 3sal was as ugly as Amber Corwin's 3toe with the pre-rotation. Sokolova at least had decent jump form.
I was waiiting for this
I cant believe Fumie Suguri is even on this poll. I could see some thinking she overachieved a bit to win 3 world medals, which she probably did, she was solid and consistent while others made mistakes, but in no way is she one of the weakest World medalists, and her performances each you were fully deserving of her medals. I am not a big Fumie fan but I will say one thing about her, the judges never gave her any gifts in her career like they might have her more celebrated and popular competitors (Kwan, Slutskaya, at times even Arakawa, Cohen, numerous others). Glad to see she has 0 votes, just as it should be.
Where is Asada at 2008?
I'm the only one ever on this forum who likes Soldatova! (and Eltsova/Bushkov too that is lol) I cannot help it, I can see the flaws you're pointing out, but I still enjoyed her a lot, both at worlds, and at euros the year before. She was fast, lots of stuff going on in the program, 3,3 combo, pre-rotated or not, who else did one? She was fun. Maybe I'm just mad? She did regress later in her career though. Btw, I was in Helsinki in 99 and no way Malinina should have been on the podium. Her jumps were so clean, she was such a sweet girl and I wanted all the best for her, but that program... Oh dear, stopping and posing and doing Arabian arm movements for four minutes! Like a little child,I just couldn't take it, sorry But Gusmeroli and Rechnio -fab fab fab!
It didn't help that Malinina kept that program for several years.
I voted for Other before I saw Laura Lepisto's bronze up there--oops! (Not that Laura isn't appealing, but didn't she win with something like two or three triples?) Some others who come to mind are: Alena Leonova's silver in 2012 and Carolina Kostner's silver in, I think, 2008 (the year Yukari Nakano was robbed of a medal).
Agreed. Suguri and Bonaly are the strongest skaters on this poll.
Kostner to me was very forgettable at 05 and 08 worlds even if she deserved her medal. 2008 worlds was even worse, but Nakano never got her triples around, and Kim was off her game in the SP.
Soldatova was pretty. I enjoy watching her for 15 seconds, but then her telegraphed entrances put me to sleep. I can never feel at ease with a Russian lady's layback positions or half hearted spirals. Judged as a Russian ladies competitor, she is not bad. As a world medalist, she is a little snooze inducing. Her going to Belarus was also tacky. I think she was ill advised and it harmed her. It would be like if Rachael Flatt went to skate for Bermuda.
Julia Soldativa 2000 GP Final FS
Julia Soldatova 2002 Olympics FS
Beatrix Schuba!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in the early 70's. She was a master at compulsory figures and was the reason the short program was instituted. She won the worlds in 70 & 71 I think and the 72 Olympic gold medal with mostly single jumps because she was so far ahead after the figures.
I thought of her, too, but decided that it would be wrong to call her undeserving. Figures were a part of the competition at the time and she is probably the best-ever among the ladies at compulsory figures. If we limit it to free skating, then I agree, she is probably the least-appealing.
Oh, c'mon, Schuba wasn't that weak of a jumper . Yes, she did single Axel instead of a double, but she had a 2lutz, 2toe, and I'm sure 2sal and 2loop somewhere in her LP.
Schuba's 1972 European Championship Free Skate, which was pretty much the same thing as her Olympics Free Skate. Doubles galore.
And, when it comes to single jumps, Schuba's successor as Ladies' Olympic Gold Medalist had one in her Free Skate too.
On the other hand, Schuba's school figures in the Olympics are commonly considered some of the best ever executed by a skater of either sex, and they counted for half of her overall score.
Those Schuba figures look scary good! Schuba's free skate has no major artistic embarrassments. Good for Trixie rotating those doubles. After watching her free program, it occurrs to me I like Schuba's skating more than I think I like Anett Pötzsch's.
Anett Pötzsch 1980 Olympics FS
Schuba did have some clean programs with doubles but also a few pretty bad programs without too. Her edges are wonderful and she is rightfully recognized as the best 'figure skater' ever. I guess if you like to watch figures she would be the least boring of all! For one of the world gala shows she actually came out and skated a loop figure for the show. Cheers Beatrix
But were Trixie's edges and flow all that great? I mean, freestyle with strong edges is much different than figures. I would say Janet Lynn skated with better edges than Trixie.
You can't really compare Dorothy's beautiful single delayed axel with Trixie's novice-like axel though. Dorothy's was done on purpose to show off her ability. Trixie did the simple single axel, because she couldn't do a 2A at that point of her skating career.
I know that, orbitz, but saying, as googooeyes originally did, that Schuba was undeserving of her gold medal because she did single jumps is silly. (I think this whole thread is silly, but that's a different matter.)
I'm sorry but I'm tired of the words "rotating" Kim landed 4 beautiful jumps and a fifth one was just a tentative but clean on one leg. Kostner in that skate was a mess....I'm tired of high PCS for messy messy programs with lots of stumbles and lack of control. I'm not a Kostner hater by any means either. I have defended her when she skated well for years, and I'm trilled she's winning now. But that skate was not a silver winning deserved program.. Gold at that night should have been between Kim/Asada... I won't argue for Nakano's UTRS either.
However, I don't see how Kostner's victory over Kwan was some disgrace.. Kwan had her own mistakes and completely bombed one segment of the competition. It was close between the two.
In terms of Trixis wins being unfair...Trixi won because she focused on the part of the sport that scored the most. By all accounts she deserved those huge scores in figures. I'm not sure how anyone can say its unfair, everyone went in knowing that figures mattered the most.
As for Meissner, one could argue that her World title was unfair, but I'm not sure how she's an undeserving world medalist. Does anyone really want to argue that Meissner didn't deserve at least third at that worlds?
I dont see how can even argue Meissner didnt deserve to win those Worlds. If she didnt then who on earth did? They cant give fantasy medals to people who dont even skate.
I don't remember the skates much. I know Sasha was a disaster, Joannie was disaster, maybe Fumie? what was her skates like...I agree though about not giving fantasy medals to people not there. It really has to be based on who is actually competiting.
Fumie had a so so soish skate with a doubled triple salchow and a stumble/step out of her triple flip/double toe combination. She had 4 clean triples and no difficult combinations. I would say close to on par with her Olympic LP as she upped her spin levels and had a little bit more pizzaz. I guess I could see one arguing for her if one thinks Meissner's triple-triple combinations shouldnt be ratified, but that would be the only way IMO.
Now I can totally get and agree with the argument that Meissner is the luckiest WC in the sport....She was definetly at the right place at the right time...But it doesn't mean her medal was undeserved...Its not Kimmie's fault Sasha and Rochette handed her that title.
I actually came dangerously close to voting for Fumie. I found her to be messy and overrated during her medal winning years. She had sloppy presentation , poor posture, lack of extention, and she looked like she was going to trip on a simple crossover half the time. She had generic Lori Nichol "choreography" that was barren and gimmicky and it seemed to get more barren and less gimmicky as time went on; until finally, in 2006, an Olympic year, she had no choreography at all!!! However, it is as you say, she wasn't really gifted with medals, so I couldn't vote for her.
I am surprised so many voted Bonaly. While I know that her skating skills left a lot to be desired, I think she fully deserved to be on the podium all three times. IMHO in 1993, she really should have won.
Of those listed, I voted for the 1975...errr I mean, 2010 world medalist Laura Lepisto. I also agreed with your intense dislike of Nancy Kerrigan in an earlier post.
I used to think Joannie had no real chance to win Worlds but come to think of it she could have definitely won 2006 skating to her potential, and she would have had a good shot of winning in 2011 had she competed that whole season. She beat Ando easily at the Japan Open and it is not like Ando's World title winning performances were anything great at all. For Fumie 2006 Worlds was definitely her only real shot to win a Worlds IMO.
Joannie won (Prelims).. If I read correctly the Olympic judges were told later that Joannie had the second best performance in the free skate in Italy, and should have been scored much higher. So the World judges were ready and willing to reward her if she skated well.
This poll seems really silly since Trixie Schuba is not listed. In skating history, she is far beyond somebody that should be categorized as "other", since she was an Olympic Champion.
Poor Fumie... ITA.
I have to say Lepisto, even though I like her.. that program was full of double jumps.
and they were right. Her Olympic SP wasnt any good and cost her any medal chance, but her Olympic LP was definitely one of the best and was placed by reputation (at the time) rather than merit. It is a joke it was placed lower than Slutskaya's terrible performance which was one of her worst ever probably.
Joannie is interesting, for she could not be a nominee for this thread. Even if some thought she was overrated by Canadians who called her the messiah, many agreed for years she could and should achieve a medal. When she bloomed in world competition at like her 7th worlds, she acquitted herself well; and at the Olympics, I never got those rumors some idiot official started that there was a fix to put her on the podium to keep it from being all ethnically Asian. She was definitely the winner of the Olympic bronze.
We'd have to do the math and see how the standings would have changed after the long program if the technical caller had applied 3F-3T> and 3Z-3T> for both combinations...I still think Kimmie is on the podium at 2006 Worlds even with downgrades (though maybe not necessarily gold overall).
I don't think the issue was ethnically Asian-i.e I think they'd have considered an Asian American. I think it was more not wanting Asia to dominate...And I think people were thinking a Kim, Asada, Ando podium could very much happen.
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